Mungler Posted January 19, 2007 Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 Personally responsible as in, if the business does not succeed you lose your house (unless it is 90/10 in the wife's name in pursuit of mutual love and affection). It's a business not a charity or an exercise in social responsibility, despite the legislation from Europe. And yes, I do my fair share of employment work and as per my first post "You can dress it up with lots of words making out that there is some thoughtful and considered process (to avoid disability discrimination legislation) but the answer (if you run a small business of 50 staff or less) would always be no." I think that sums up the "honest" answer from small business employers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorfolkBoy Posted January 19, 2007 Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 Am I the only one who finds it a bit worrying that you would all pre-judge without wanting to know more about the circumstances? Pin, personally I responded honestly based on experience - I'm making a decision for the good of the company, plus it's unfair on other employees who may well have to make up any shortfall in productivity. As has been said those who are absent due to a bereavement, divorce etc are/should be accomodated BUT it is unlikely they would be off for ten months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pin Posted January 19, 2007 Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 I stand by my comments. Perhaps some of that is to do with the "quirky" nature of people who want to do the kind of job we do here. Not for everyone, and to some extent you need to be introverted and different in order to be able to do it. I still think most decisions have been made without enough information being available to make them properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noddy without Bigears Posted January 19, 2007 Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 Well, it's nice to read all the thoughtful and understanding responses to the question, quality, balanced opinions all round,with the exception of PIN. So to sum up, if anybody has suffered from stress and you've had time of work, you'll be glad to know you'll never work again, hurrah for the Victorian values shown by one and all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted January 19, 2007 Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 Well if employers are such Victorian ********* go self employed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodmedod.one Posted January 19, 2007 Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 I don't run my own business, but have done plenty of hiring and firing in the past. Firstly it is very difficult to answer the question that Darebear asks without knowing the full story. Secondly, I must say that my answer would be yes I would think more than twice before employing such a person. The company I work for used to offer everyone early retirement at 55 as a matter of course. The "package" offered was awesome and everyone looked forward to it. Times have changed and the deal got stopped. We now have a remarkable number of people who suddenly get stressed out as they approach their 55th birthday. They get a sick note for 6 months and then the company offers them early retirement. Coincidence, I very much doubt it. I don't blame people for playing the system, but stress is a great excuse for some time off. Your GP will give you a sick note because of the possible consequences if he doesn't. I know nothing of the circumstances in the case Darebear is referring to and in no way am I being judgemental. I just know that stress is becoming the easiest way to get time off and employers have realised this and therefore have to take precautions. Only 6 years to go to 55. I can feel the pressure already Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorfolkBoy Posted January 19, 2007 Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 I stand by what I said... Then again.... if it was me I'd just keep stum and pray my references were ok..... Victorian? No! Edwardian? Maybe... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted January 19, 2007 Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 I stand by what I said... Then again.... if it was me I'd just keep stum and pray my references were ok..... Victorian? No! Edwardian? Maybe... Tricky, I went for a job about 6 years ago and they wanted my consent to obtain a copy of my medical records. Well I didn't want them knowing I was a post op transexual with a raging case of the clap, so in the words of the News of the World I made my excuses and left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted January 19, 2007 Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 I know 2 people who were off work long term with stress, proper stress, and from what I can see the real thing isn't cureable. One has found a quite job workng at home, and the other will probably never work again. If they reckon they had it and are over it, they probably didn't have it in the first place, in which case they are a liability anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiercel Posted January 19, 2007 Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 Only 6 years to go to 55. I can feel the pressure already A friend of mine used the Stress / get out of work free card at 55, Lost his SGC for 8 years. Isacc Newton has a lot to answer for. Tiercel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pavman Posted January 19, 2007 Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 I stand by what I said... Then again.... if it was me I'd just keep stum and pray my references were ok..... Victorian? No! Edwardian? Maybe... Tricky, I went for a job about 6 years ago and they wanted my consent to obtain a copy of my medical records. Well I didn't want them knowing I was a post op transexual with a raging case of the clap, so in the words of the News of the World I made my excuses and left. Mung your growing on me! Bit like a wart wiv a sense of humour Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorfolkBoy Posted January 19, 2007 Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 I know 2 people who were off work long term with stress, proper stress, and from what I can see the real thing isn't cureable. One has found a quite job workng at home, and the other will probably never work again. If they reckon they had it and are over it, they probably didn't have it in the first place, in which case they are a liability anyway. Exactement' mon amis.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darebear Posted January 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 thanks for the honesty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted January 19, 2007 Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 Darebear. Opinion seems set against employment. Someone in the thread asked if we are passing opinions or are employers. I have managed 110 staff in times gone by. I could have afforded to take a chance - one in one ten. I now directly manage 15 staff, who in turn manage more. I took on one staff member, after one year's absence with stress. It's a chance. I spoke to the person beforehand and listened to what had happened. Few people would have stayed in work under the same circumstances, many might have assaulted the boss, or walked out, never to return. I took the chance and it has worked out fine. I have a top flight employee, with an excellent attendance record. No complaints whatsoever. As a hypothetical question, you can almost predict the outcome. Faced with real life people, it isn't that clear cut. If it has happened to you - keep trying. If you are in the market to employ someone - speak to them - you may be surprised. PS I can't help but notice that everyone assumes you are the prospective employee rather then employer. Can you put me out of my misery? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pin Posted January 19, 2007 Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 Finally, someone who agrees with me For the record I hadn't even thought about who this person was Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darebear Posted January 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 employee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted January 19, 2007 Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 Don't give up. A positive attitude can work wonders at any interview. It's something you have to deal with at interview and meet head on. No point skirting round it. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dead-Eyed Duck Posted January 19, 2007 Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 My, there's lots of people out there very quick to condemn. I think that the answer is, as usual, "It all depends". Most jobs nowadays contain a certain amount of stress, and there are different types of stress. Working under constant pressure to get the job out is a lot different than the stress involved in some forms of management. Most people can deal with one form of stress, but would readily admit that they cannot cope with others. So, if a person goes off with one form of stress then taking that person on as an employee on a similar job must give room for thought. As for saying that you should never take on an ex con as an employee seems too ridiculous for words - again it all depends. I am still one of the hanging brigade for absolutely proven murderers and such like, but punishment in prison has to be sufficiently thought provoking to teach people to change their ways. I have worked with ex cons in my time and most that I came across were very keen to start afresh and anxious to be given a chance. You have to be careful of course, but hands up the person who hasn't done something wrong and didn't learn from the experience. I currently work with a guy that was stressed out after two rapid bouts of redundancy, and all he wanted to do was to tie a job down and prove his worth - he's probably the best clerical worker that I have ever come across, and after two years I could not even consider him not being part of my team. It all depends....... Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted January 19, 2007 Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 Thanks PIN and Don - it was getting a trifle lonely.] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorfolkBoy Posted January 19, 2007 Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 My, there's lots of people out there very quick to condemn. I think that the answer is, as usual, "It all depends". Most jobs nowadays contain a certain amount of stress, and there are different types of stress. Working under constant pressure to get the job out is a lot different than the stress involved in some forms of management. Most people can deal with one form of stress, but would readily admit that they cannot cope with others. So, if a person goes off with one form of stress then taking that person on as an employee on a similar job must give room for thought. As for saying that you should never take on an ex con as an employee seems too ridiculous for words - again it all depends. I am still one of the hanging brigade for absolutely proven murderers and such like, but punishment in prison has to be sufficiently thought provoking to teach people to change their ways. I have worked with ex cons in my time and most that I came across were very keen to start afresh and anxious to be given a chance. You have to be careful of course, but hands up the person who hasn't done something wrong and didn't learn from the experience. I currently work with a guy that was stressed out after two rapid bouts of redundancy, and all he wanted to do was to tie a job down and prove his worth - he's probably the best clerical worker that I have ever come across, and after two years I could not even consider him not being part of my team. It all depends....... Don Just out of curiosity who said never take on ex-cons ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dead-Eyed Duck Posted January 19, 2007 Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 My, there's lots of people out there very quick to condemn. I think that the answer is, as usual, "It all depends". Most jobs nowadays contain a certain amount of stress, and there are different types of stress. Working under constant pressure to get the job out is a lot different than the stress involved in some forms of management. Most people can deal with one form of stress, but would readily admit that they cannot cope with others. So, if a person goes off with one form of stress then taking that person on as an employee on a similar job must give room for thought. As for saying that you should never take on an ex con as an employee seems too ridiculous for words - again it all depends. I am still one of the hanging brigade for absolutely proven murderers and such like, but punishment in prison has to be sufficiently thought provoking to teach people to change their ways. I have worked with ex cons in my time and most that I came across were very keen to start afresh and anxious to be given a chance. You have to be careful of course, but hands up the person who hasn't done something wrong and didn't learn from the experience. I currently work with a guy that was stressed out after two rapid bouts of redundancy, and all he wanted to do was to tie a job down and prove his worth - he's probably the best clerical worker that I have ever come across, and after two years I could not even consider him not being part of my team. It all depends....... Don Just out of curiosity who said never take on ex-cons ? Gully Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted January 19, 2007 Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 I have been an employer for most of my working life. Would I employ someone knowing they had been off work with "stress" for 10 months ? No I wouldn't, the main reason being that it would be easier not to. Would I support an employee that went off work with "stress" ? Yes I would. My question to the person with the "stress" medical record is, are you sure you are completely ready to return to work ? If they answered , "Yes", then I would advise them to consider carefully the work they sought, especially the hours involved and then , not to disclose their medical record if at all possible. I would also wish them the very best of luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkeye Posted January 19, 2007 Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 As a ex employer (been retired nearly 5 yrs) it was a big company that I worked for I only managed 15 to 20 people at the most out of about 3000 employed by the company, but what has amazed me is the fact that nobody has asked what the job was and the reason for the stress. Or did I miss something while reading this thread.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted January 19, 2007 Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 I'm not an employer, but am part of a small company and we have just had to let a guy go who suffered from stress. I think that if this stress was a one off thing, due to something major happening in the persons life, then they are good to be employed. I'm sure I'd just give up for a while if a situation I had to deal with had hurt me enough! If it is someone that cannot handle every day life, and can't be ***** to turn up at least one day a week, then no chance. This lad we took on 9 months ago was a stress sufferer. He quite often just didn't turn up, and that's no good. He once phoned at 3pm mid week (we start at 8am) to say he couldn't work due to a hangover, useless t**t! Everyone gets down about something major, but people who just use the term to cover their lack of motivation are just plain lazy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted January 19, 2007 Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 It was a straightforward question and it has had straightforward and honest responses. That's pretty much it. I ain't judging no one and anyone who wants to judge the small business employer should look at that business' monthly wage bill and walk a mile in them thare shoes. Having received the answers I think that the overwhelming advice is to get and stay well and then to keep mum if the situation permits. Actually go and work for a large American Bank - 1 year off on full pay for maternity leave and more benefits you can shake a stick at etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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