Gordon R Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 brynhaller - people can't be responsible for the looks they were born with, but I totally agree about the photos. Boyfriend looks a shifty individual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 I don't know if you're deliberately misunderstanding me... The pit bull terrier TYPE which is banned in the UK under the Dangerous Dogs Act can result from crossbreeding dogs which are not PBTT. This means that it cannot be eradicated as long as other dogs are allowed to mate/breed/produce puppies which may grow up to be "type". Some litters can produce grown dogs which do not all conform to "type". It's a much bigger problem than just banning a breed, and, as such, genetic APBT heritage doesn't come into it. Obviously, breeding from resulting PBTT dogs results in PBTT puppies. There are currently more PBTT dogs in the country than there were at the time of the DDA coming into force Likewise more illegally held handguns. Any who remember the rise and fall of CB radio can use that example, nobody wanted one one it was legalised Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) Ultimately this is a tragedy, these dogs have had various routes into the uk being called "Irish Staffies" is one route and put on their import papers and that's just one way. If you see a long legged athletic looking staffy type then the chances increase that it is pit. Plenty of dogs will bite but few will lock on and kill in the way these will. I trust mine with children and they are a breed that one member who is commenting on owners influence on their dog has had to destroy one of. Would I leave them alone no just from common sense but they have been brought up from puppies with plenty of children about and I know how they react when pushed and ultimately I know I would always have the upper hand, you cannot say the same for a pit That would be me then. Reason being its the correct thing to do, I am informed that in places were these dogs are used for fighting human aggression is not tolerated in the contestants (at the end of the day I suppose someone has to break the fight). Whilst I do not agree with dog fighting I totally think that dogs don't get a second chance if they prove truly dangerous. The link recently posted link about that disabled woman backs that chain of thought . As regards breed, there are a long line of GWPs that have been PTS for human and other aggression issues. Does this make them a bad thing? not really just something that shouldn't land with the thick the unselective fashion breeder, or just the over sentimental type. This is a big problem in the modern world, too many Rolf Harris types In the 1930's if I guy owned a dog that bit or proved itself of unsound temperament it should simply be PTS. Today he writes to dog magazine or posts on a forum "my dog bites me what should I do" and some fool says "give it a treat and cuddle to show it you still love it" Strange we have issues with our dogs today don't you think? The answer to any breed with issues is selective and controlled breeding, the answer to the people side might well be just the same but like that's never going to happen! It should also save the DHSS and taxpayer a small fortune In all truth you never 100% know how a dog will react until its been exposed to that situation many times Edited February 13, 2014 by kent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
four-wheel-drive Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) I will start by saying I have been brought up with small terrier dogs so I am a bit biased but I think that instead of banning people from having these big dogs perhaps people could be licensed to have a dog above a certain size to get a license they person should have to do a training course to prove that they now how to look after and treat a big dog as it should be treated. For a start applying for a license and going on a course would not be thought of as being a cool thing to do also they would have to pay to attend and show that they can be trusted I would think that this would put most of them off before starting. You could say why not make it applicable to all size dogs my answer to that is apart from very small children most people could fend off a small dog if it went for them and though they may need treatment they not be killed as you could well be with a large dog. Edited February 13, 2014 by four-wheel-drive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 I will start by saying I have been brought up with small terrier dogs so I am a bit biased but I think that instead of banning people from having these big dogs perhaps people could be licensed to have a dog above a certain size to get a license they person should have to do a training course to prove that they now how to look after and treat a big dog as it should be treated. For a start applying for a license and going on a course would not be thought of as being a cool thing to do also they would have to pay to attend and show that they can be trusted I would think that this would put most of them off before starting. You could say why not make it applicable to all size dogs my answer to that is apart from very small children most people could fend off a small dog if it went for them and though they may need treatment they not be killed as you could well be with a large dog. Has extra licencing reduced gun crime? Has so called banning (actually just making it section 5) of handguns stopped use of the hand gun proliferating in crime today? Nope! why should it for dogs especially for already banned breeds. Terriers have and can killed small children in the past. As most of these horror stories are about kids........... Besides an adult male in good condition can fight off and if required kill a very large dog if it doesn't get lucky, does that mean they are ok to have one in your cunning plan? I should have thought gun owners realise that the fact that something is Illegal does not stop those that already break the law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) You could say why not make it applicable to all size dogs my answer to that is apart from very small children most people could fend off a small dog The "logic" of this post has lost me. The thread was started because a baby was killed. A baby who could not have fought off any dog whatsoever. Priceless. Kent - good post. Edited February 13, 2014 by Gordon R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catweazle Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 There's a fairly simple rule that I would apply, " Is the dog capable of injuring the child ?", If the answer is yes ( and it normally is ) then the dog should not be left with the child, ever. Now, I understand that a poodle could bite a teenager, but that bite would need an antiseptic spray and a plaster, and the teenager has learned a life lesson. Most of us have had that lesson at some point. If the dog did it without warning then it's off to the vets as it has a temperament disorder. If the dog gave several warnings, vocally or with body language then surely the human is at fault, dogs will bite if badly handled. I've been bitten by a dog ( a big alpha male ) because I didn't give it enough time to back down ( into a submissive attitude ). My fault entirely. I should have known better. A small child is not capable of handling a dog, any dog, and should never be left with one. I would like to see some kind of education for new dog owners, they're not always easy to understand. Perhaps, given the popularity of dogs in the UK, it could be a part of the schools syllabus, instead of RE. After all, kids are much more likely to see Dog than see God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digger Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Anyone who has this breed of dog and calls it killer needs a slap. Scum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontbeck Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Dogs react to stimuli and a baby crying out can sound like an animal in distress, an easy meal. I've bred well over 100 dogs and have had several litters of pups that would gang up and attack a pup crying out in some form of distress. This is not a question of size but of being aware that ALL dogs could revert to type and attack, given the right circumstances. Don't leave dogs alone with vulnerable people, especially children. Dogs react to stimuli and a baby crying out can sound like an animal in distress, an easy meal. I've bred well over 100 dogs and have had several litters of pups that would gang up and attack a pup crying out in some form of distress. This is not a question of size but of being aware that ALL dogs could revert to type and attack, given the right circumstances. Don't leave dogs alone with vulnerable people, especially children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Some of the above makes sense, but dog licensing is almost unenforceable. One in ten cars on the road has no insurance - so much for enforcement. The logic of that is don't require people to insure their cars as some people won't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 ordnance - you could take it that way, if you were so inclined. There is always one. The point is that the Police have their hands full enforcing an existing system. They can park up on a road and use ANPR until it pings a result. Try doing that with dogs, who might never venture out into the street. How do you check on a dog locked in a house - Magistrates Warrant ? - I think not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie-fox Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 Its not the dogs its the pond life they attract as owners My sister-in-law is a bad smack head, the family have disowned her, she's got 2 of these types of dogs!!! Plus a child of about 3 years old in the house...I've tried telling her that it's a accident waiting to happen, her response was " there fine and not aggresive"...but they fight each other and are never walked just locked in the garden...I've told the police and RSPCA..they need to be removed and placed with someone who can manage these dogs.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westmids1987 Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 i find myself posting on these kind of topics more then any other topic, perhaps because i have actual real life (not daily mail) experience of 'these kind of dogs', firstly it was in this case a banned breed,obviously not a responsible owner to buy a banned breed in the first place let alone leave it with a child/baby. As others have previously said licensing just ins't do-able although in my ideal world it would be compulsory for any owner for any breed to be judged prior to owning a dog to be 'tested' and licensed. licensing for 'breeds above a certain size' there have been many cases of small terriers (JRT) killing babies/children so where do you draw the line? I can guarantee a fully grown Labrador could do a serious amount of damage to a adult human if it was so inclined (wrong temperament/training). People need to get out of their heads that these 'kind' of breed are mythical beasts, they are dogs the same as millions of others out there. Bring them up right and you'll never want another breed of dog again. Ban any breed with bull or terrier in the name? why?because of chavvy scum that change the innate human loving behavior of these breeds? Or are some people of the opinion that a dog must have a 'job/role' that it was initially designed for rather then a loving companion and pet? I don't expect many of you to have looked into the history of dog fighting breeds but as previously said human aggression in a fighting dog would not be tolerated and that dog would be PTS and not bred from. reading stories from days gone by, a working class fellow would take his dog down to the pit for a match, after the fight he would put the dog into the pram with baby and walk home, this could be from where these 'type' of dogs get their affinity for children from. Although i don't agree with some aspects of the Kennel Club i do agree with what they say about staffies being a 'nanny' dog. Cant remember after this long rant what others have said but if anyone has any questions regarding these 'kind' of dogs please don't hesitate to ask and ill try and answer from my actual real life experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted February 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 (edited) i find myself posting on these kind of topics more then any other topic, perhaps because i have actual real life (not daily mail) experience of 'these kind of dogs', firstly it was in this case a banned breed,obviously not a responsible owner to buy a banned breed in the first place let alone leave it with a child/baby. As others have previously said licensing just ins't do-able although in my ideal world it would be compulsory for any owner for any breed to be judged prior to owning a dog to be 'tested' and licensed. licensing for 'breeds above a certain size' there have been many cases of small terriers (JRT) killing babies/children so where do you draw the line? I can guarantee a fully grown Labrador could do a serious amount of damage to a adult human if it was so inclined (wrong temperament/training). People need to get out of their heads that these 'kind' of breed are mythical beasts, they are dogs the same as millions of others out there. Bring them up right and you'll never want another breed of dog again. Ban any breed with bull or terrier in the name? why?because of chavvy scum that change the innate human loving behavior of these breeds? Or are some people of the opinion that a dog must have a 'job/role' that it was initially designed for rather then a loving companion and pet? I don't expect many of you to have looked into the history of dog fighting breeds but as previously said human aggression in a fighting dog would not be tolerated and that dog would be PTS and not bred from. reading stories from days gone by, a working class fellow would take his dog down to the pit for a match, after the fight he would put the dog into the pram with baby and walk home, this could be from where these 'type' of dogs get their affinity for children from. Although i don't agree with some aspects of the Kennel Club i do agree with what they say about staffies being a 'nanny' dog. Cant remember after this long rant what others have said but if anyone has any questions regarding these 'kind' of dogs please don't hesitate to ask and ill try and answer from my actual real life experience. my real life experience tells me that the dog that can get the better of an 18 stone 6ft 4" man and put him in hospital to have skin grafts and nerve damage repaired / alleviated, was not a small terrier, dont hesitate to ask about it, there is no repeat no place for these dogs in general society, these dogs are like a game of Russian roulette one day they will buck the odds, and regardless if its just bad owners "chav scum" who have problems with them, if the dogs where not available they couldn't could they. KW Edited February 14, 2014 by kdubya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westmids1987 Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 (edited) my real life experience tells me that the dog that can get the better of an 18 stone 6ft 4" man and put him in hospital to have skin grafts and nerve damage repaired / alleviated, was not a small terrier,so only these 'type of dogs' could do that?why no place in society?(great family pet when brought up right like any breed)game of roulette? why? not heard of many cases on sudden rage syndrome in these kinds of dogs in comparison to cockers?? If these breeds were not available do you really believe chavvy scum would just decide not to own these breeds or would they ignore the law?or move onto a different breed? Edited February 14, 2014 by westmids1987 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
four-wheel-drive Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 (edited) Has extra licencing reduced gun crime? Has so called banning (actually just making it section 5) of handguns stopped use of the hand gun proliferating in crime today? Nope! why should it for dogs especially for already banned breeds. Terriers have and can killed small children in the past. As most of these horror stories are about kids........... Besides an adult male in good condition can fight off and if required kill a very large dog if it doesn't get lucky, does that mean they are ok to have one in your cunning plan? I should have thought gun owners realise that the fact that something is Illegal does not stop those that already break the law. The point is if you have a hand gun and walk around with it in your hand you would soon end up being locked up whereas a big dog needs to be taken out for walks etc so it would not take much in the way of brains for a police man to see ( we all now what most of these people look like ) and say to them have you got a licence to have that dog if he/she can not provide one then it is on with the cuffs and in to the van with both of them problem solved. Also do not think that I am against people having these large staffy type dogs I now several people who have them and they are all well mannered dogs and I have thought about getting one myself although I do wonder about why people have things like great danes and other pony sized dogs as for the most part they do not tend to live that long and if it took it in to its head to run after something all that most people could do is let it drag them along as they are so strong. Edited February 14, 2014 by four-wheel-drive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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