Frenchieboy Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 Does anyone on here do any Black Powder Pistol Target Shooting? I want to take up Black Powder Pistol Shooting with our gun club so that i can actively remain in the shooting "fraternity" doing clay and target shooting even though I am winding down and eventually quitting all of my Stalking, Culling, Vermin Control and Rough Shooting. With this in mind I have put in for a .44 Precussion Revolver to be added to my FAC while it is away being renewed (I spoke to my FEO this morning and he has confirmed that it is being issued for me without any problems at all) and I will be going out to buy a (Per-Owned) Black Powder Pistol as soon as I get my FAC back. (I will be using Pyrodex(sp) rather than Black Powder) With this in mind and being new to the "Black Powder Scene" can anyone on here give me any pointers as to what to look out for and pay particular attention to when buying a Pre-Owned Black Powder Pistol - I am currently considering something like an 1860 Colt Army Revolver. If anyone can help or advise I am interested in knowing about both the positive and the negatives to be on the look out for with Pre-Owned Precussion Revolver. I maybe ought to add that I not only tried Black Powder Pistol Shooting on our club range last Thursady night with our Chadderton Rifle & Pistol Club but I have also found a club relatively local to me (Less than a 20 minute drive) where I can shoot Black Powder Pistols and Muskets and Rifles on a regular basis on their out door range which will be much kinder on my lungs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1066 Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 I enjoy shooting my BP pistols when I get chance. I have a .44 Remington 1858 revolver (Italian copy) and a nice .36 single shot "Le Page" duelling pistol. Although the Colt has a lot of fans I think the Remington is a better pistol. The Remington has a solid frame and would be a better choice if you were thinking of "Target shooting" rather than just having a bang. My Remington has adjustable sights, many don't, If you were thinking of ever using it in BP competition there are separate classes for fixed sights etc. The down side of the Remington is that it has a very small grip, try one to see how it suits your hand. There are other revolvers out there like the Rogers & Spencer and the Ruger Old Army which is a modern BP revolver "in the spirit" of the cowboy guns. The biggest problem when buying a used PB pistol is that BP is quite corrosive so the pistol must be well cleaned. Make sure that nipples can be unscrewed, the cylinder removed and the sight adjustment working if fitted and watch for any pitting in the barrel. When loaded correctly they can be just as accurate as a modern pistol - It just takes loads of practice to get the best out of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mossyoak77 Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 Hello Frenchieboy, I shoot black powder rifles and pistols at my club currently use clubs .45 for rifle side. Theres a couple of good used black powder pistols at Mcavoy's or Kirklees in huddersfield if your looking at used. If your going to go for new Henry Krank's in Pudsey best place for the new stuff thats where our BP RCO gets all his stuff from. Is the club you found local to you Bury & District Muzzleloaders? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livefast123 Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 (edited) I love shooting my 1858 Remington New Model Army and would definitely recommend one over the Colt. It has a stronger frame, imo is more accurate and looks better. I have the Uberti basic blued and wood version which looks very authentic. Condition is everything with a BPR, look for one that is in good visual condition, check that the nipples are in good condition and can be removed. Check the linkages on the ball rammer as these wear due to the force put on them and the pins can fall out. I personally use Triple 7 which I find gives far more bang for your buck than BP or pyrodex, it also has the added bonus of being the easiest to clean. I just put my pistol under a hot tap and job done. It also smells less when being cleaned due to no sulpher so keeps the Mrs on side. I currently use 23gr volume of Triple 7 under a lubed wonderwad and .454 ball for good accuracy. Edited March 11, 2014 by Livefast123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted March 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 (edited) Hello Frenchieboy, I shoot black powder rifles and pistols at my club currently use clubs .45 for rifle side. Theres a couple of good used black powder pistols at Mcavoy's or Kirklees in huddersfield if your looking at used. If your going to go for new Henry Krank's in Pudsey best place for the new stuff thats where our BP RCO gets all his stuff from. Is the club you found local to you Bury & District Muzzleloaders? Hi Mossyoak77, thanks for the reply. I have seeen 2 that I like at Kirklees, one is a Colt 1860 Army and the other is a Pietta (Not sure about the model but it has a full brass frame which looks quite good to me) however I haven't been and inspected either of them yet - I am planning a trip there in a day or twos time, in the mean time your opinion would be most welcome - They are the 4th and 5th down on the page on this link: http://www.kirklees-guns.co.uk/black-powder.html ) I have to admit that the Remmington 1858 does look like a really well made and very solid handgun as well as something that would be a pleasure to own and shoot but it might be hard finding a good pre-owned one that is priced to fit within my budget. Yes, the club that I have found is the Bury and District Muzzle Loaders which I have now found is actually affilliated to Chadderton Rifle & Pistol Club where I have Full Membership so I believe that can have access to their Pinner Range (As long as I pay the range fees which is no problem as Pinner is within about 6 miles from my home) We only shoot BP with CRPC once a month which is why I was looking for another range to shoot BP at more regularly and Pinner fits the bill very nicely and BDML sound like quite a good club and a very helpful bunch of chaps too so I may well take up full membership with them! As a bit of a side note: I am off to do some photos for Towers of Rochdale's web site this morning so I will also check to see what (If any) .44 revolvers Gerry has on offer there as well. I would also like to know more about this Tripple7 that Livefast123 has mentioned - Is it cleaner/less corrosive, how readily available is it and do I need an "Explosives License" to keep the same as I would with normal Black Powder - I should add that getting an BP "Explosives License" shouldn't be any problem at all for me if it were required! Thanks you 1066, Mossyoak77 and Livefast123 for your advice and replies. Edited March 11, 2014 by Frenchieboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catweazle Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 777 is a propellent like they rifle powders you already have, so you don't need a licence for it. It is a little more difficult to light than black powder, especially if it is compressed whilst loading. You should avoid compressing 777 for pressure reasons too. On the plus side, it's much easier to clean, less corrosive, and more "energetic" than black powder or pyrodex. You should note that loads for these black powder substitutes are in the form of "grains equivalent", that means the same volume of substitute that would weigh ( for example ) 23grns if it was black powder. If you actually weighed 23grns of 777 it would be a much heftier charge than 23grns of BP. Modern BP revolvers are well made, so there is a bit of flexibility in the loads you can use. Ruger state that my Old Army cannot be blown up using black powder, if you can fit it into the cylinder you can fire it, but this does not apply to other makes. If you're serious about target work you might consider a Rogers & Spencer clone, they work well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mossyoak77 Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 no problem mate happy to help, I had a look at them they both look good. thats the club im a member of can pm you the rco's for black powder shoots number and his name too if you want ? its a good relaxed shoot on a saturday with the b/p people can still shoot fullbore or rimfires when its on. I believe that triple 7's smokeless and can be bought with an fac?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted March 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 (edited) Thanks for that Catweazle, it is a very informative and helpful reply. With regards to the "seriousness" of my shooting I am not really interested in these Top Uk and International type of competitions, just on a local club level with like minded guys! That 777 does sound interesting if it is cleaner and less corrosive - Is it fairly easy to get in most "reasonably stocked" gun shops? Edited March 11, 2014 by Frenchieboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 Try the guys at Blackburn indoor range (near Holdex Plywoods) they are big on it and have or rather had (its ten years or more from when I attended now) a stack of BP pistol stuff or go up to Kranks (view thier stuff on -line). Bob Smart is also worth speaking to, he used to attend Crawshaw booth (Bury and district range near the pet crem) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RED BEARD Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 I shoot bp pistol for fun and competition, and this 777 sounds very interesting.also I'd recommend the piatta remington copy, its true the hand grip feels very small at first, but it feels better the more you use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogcal Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 I've just got into BP pistol and I'm thoroughly enjoying this new shooting discipline. The chap that's taken me under his wing so to speak at the gun club has a .44. BP Remington and one of Alan Westlakes .38 nitro Armscor conversions, both of which are fine guns to shoot and the Armscor in particular which is the match model with comp sights fitted. I find the whole process of loading, aiming and firing these types of gun an interesting experience and although I was told that "getting in the zone" was something that would improve your accuracy, I must say that it worked for me and getting all my shots within the black was the clincher for me! I've put my variation in for two calibres of pistol (.44 and .38/357) which will allow me to fire BP and smokeless plus an additional cylinder for the .38 to allow me to indulge in Police Pistol comps where 12 shots in a given short timescale are a requirement and the need for two preloaded cylinders are a necessity. I keep asking myself why has it taken me so long to discover BP pistols! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livefast123 Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 (edited) Triple 7 is very easy to get, most gun shops that stock powder should have it as it is manufactured by Hodgdons. No licence is required for it as it is a propellant but not technically a smokeless powder. It is more expensive than black or pyrodex at around £44 a pot here but for me the benefits are worth it. All the powders used for muzzle loading are corrosive with pyrodex possibly being worse than than genuine b/p. Triple 7 is the least corrosive but still needs to be cleaned. I just run my gun under the hot tap and put it in a cool oven to dry, job done. You'll generally use a charge of 15 to 25 grains volume in a .44 1858 but I have tried an American hunting load of 30 grains volume and shall we say it was stout........(these loads are safe in my gun but may not be in yours). I have never had a problem with it being hard to ignite, I just use standard Sellior and Belliot caps and have never had a misfire, just be sympathetic with the rammer and take up all that air gap. You'll need FFFG for the revolver, some interesting pages here http://www.hodgdon.com/tripleseven-granular.html You may also get called unauthentic at the range for daring to use a substitute :-) It's refreshing to see an interest in muzzle loading arms, I find nothing more relaxing than loading up the revolver and having some fun with smoke and fire. Midway UK seem to be importing some modern stuff which I'd love to have a go with. A new Remington will set you back about £250 but I have seen them from 95 quid s/h and paid 100 for mine. Edited March 11, 2014 by Livefast123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonwolf444 Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 I shoot BP shotgun Muzzle loading, only thing i can say that might be of use and interest is that i use pyrodex at the moment is that in under 24 hours your gun is rusting if you don't clean it, and you have to clean it vigorously. I also would like to get into BP pistol shooting if anyone knows of anyplace around yorkshire and i also have to say i am a fan of the 1860 army. James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperfection Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 I shoot black powder-in a Uberti 44 revolver. Stick to black powder rather than substitute as its less corrosive. TS2 is an excellent black powder with far less fouling,but if you want the really really good stuff then that woud be Swiss. Kranks normal black powder tends to gunge my pistol up very quickly so i stopped using that stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grimey121uk Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 (edited) Frenchieboy, long time no see:) The other half and I shoot a Ruger old army using 777 mainly due to the ease of cleaning it, warm water will remove 99% of it. Have you considered an old army? We wanted one as they are a modern gun with a frame based on a cartridge pistol and can therefore handle a lot higher pressures, whereas a lot of other guns are accurately built to 1800 designs. I hear a lot of people advising against 777 in certain guns due to the increased pressure having the potential to warp the frames. We paid £350 for ours and if you manage to get one at a similar price you will never loose out if you decide to sell it. We use wonder-wads in ours for typical shooting which allow us to reduce the powder charge safely, that said on occasion it handles a full cylinder of 777 under very mild compression with no issues at all. Another plus for the Ruger is that it wont bind/jam whilst shooting due to powder fouling, we have put 70+ shots through it in a single session with no stoppages. I'm not trying to bash other black power revolvers but the Ruger really is the best from an engineering point of view, that said if you want an accurate reproduction of a classic gun the Ruger isn't for you. Shameless excuse for a picture Edited March 11, 2014 by grimey121uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted March 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 Thanks for all of the replies and advice guys. I think I am now sorted out with a boxed remmington made by Navy Arms Co from Mick (AKA "wabbitbosher") who has an excellent reputation for his honesty and great deals), I'm not sure of the exact model but it is said to be in really top condition and I coming from Mick i would not doubt that. I will try to let you know how things progress once the Remington arrives along with my renewed FAC with the slot for the pistol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandspider Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 I love shooting my 1858 Remington New Model Army and would definitely recommend one over the Colt. It has a stronger frame, imo is more accurate and looks better. I have the Uberti basic blued and wood version which looks very authentic. Condition is everything with a BPR, look for one that is in good visual condition, check that the nipples are in good condition and can be removed. Check the linkages on the ball rammer as these wear due to the force put on them and the pins can fall out. I personally use Triple 7 which I find gives far more bang for your buck than BP or pyrodex, it also has the added bonus of being the easiest to clean. I just put my pistol under a hot tap and job done. It also smells less when being cleaned due to no sulpher so keeps the Mrs on side. I currently use 23gr volume of Triple 7 under a lubed wonderwad and .454 ball for good accuracy. Hi there LF Just wondering, where do you shoot BP? I seem to remember you're near Bristol...? Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livefast123 Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 I shoot at the Bristol and District Rifle & Pistol Club in Failand, loads of muzzleloaders there Sandspider. http://www.bdrpc.org.uk/menupage.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marktattoo Posted March 16, 2014 Report Share Posted March 16, 2014 Hi Pete, I shoot black powder revolvers just recently got myself a euro arms roger sand Spencer's , I shoot at morecambe rifle and pistol but advice from the guys who have been shooting for years was to use black powder rather that substitutes , lucky enough we have a Rfd not to far away who supplies bp , so got no supply issues. I got a bp box and applied for explosives store and use licence no probs when my fac was renewed last year. The only downside to it is the cleaning. Hope to catch up with yourself again soon and hope your wife has made a good recovery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livefast123 Posted March 16, 2014 Report Share Posted March 16, 2014 (edited) The old guard will always recommend BP as it's authetic and will come up with scare stories of poor ignition etc from the subs which I have never experienced. For me, the convience of not having to get another licence, another box taking up room in the house and not having the kitchen smell of sulphur when cleaning is enough reason to use Triple 7 with the easier cleaning. Whatever you choose have fun! Edited March 16, 2014 by Livefast123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkeye Posted March 16, 2014 Report Share Posted March 16, 2014 I shoot BP shotgun Muzzle loading, only thing i can say that might be of use and interest is that i use pyrodex at the moment is that in under 24 hours your gun is rusting if you don't clean it, and you have to clean it vigorously. I also would like to get into BP pistol shooting if anyone knows of anyplace around yorkshire and i also have to say i am a fan of the 1860 army. James. Where about in north yorks are you based, we have a good club that does BP if you are interested in that we also have our own outdoor range, the club is called Tees Valley Target Sports if you want any more info drop me a PM and i will help all i can.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuffy Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 I've got a pair of ruger old army's . Mostly useing bp much nicer bang/flash and smell !! All powders are corrosive so cleaning is a must I use the dishwasher then dry in oven then slap on some olive oil Don't block your nipples !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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