bryanhu2 Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 Hi All, Some big help needed i hope i am in the right place to ask, i am now living in germany for a sort time and when out walking a couple of weeks ago i stumbled on an old LEE ENFIELD rifle sticking out the ground barrel first, only the metal left and totally rusted up and only half the barrel is left but for me has great history and would like to preserve. Was just wondering what is the best way to clean it up and then preserve it for the future so that it does not get any worse, i no this is a very strange subject and some people may thing this is wrong and i should report. all replies will help as i am at a loss what to do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 Personally I'd just leave it. It sounds beyond preserving, may be on private property, and even if you could restore it would you be able to bring it away with you when your stint in Germany is over? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bryanhu2 Posted March 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 i am only intrested in restoring for historical reasons like i said the gun is totally rusted up, want to keep it looking the same just preserve it and remove as much off the rust as possible,and for bringing back to the uk should not have a problem as it would never fire anything ever again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 I suggest you chat this over with your unit armourer, he may share your interest and is better placed both to advise on how to retain its 'history' and more able to return it to the UK- it will need a deactivated cert and secure storage. Of as much interest would be how it got there, serial numbers, the unit which may have left it (was it Barrel down, possibly marking a grave)? All that stuff would be a proper accompaniment to the rifle. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bryanhu2 Posted March 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 Thanks guys and to answer your questiom no it was barrel up, but would be great to try and trace where it came from but it is far from been able to read any serial number any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunman Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 Whether it will ever be able to be fired or not you would still be in possession of a section 1 fire arm and for that you will need a licence. Some years ago an acquaintance of mine was involved with the salvaging of a WW2 bomber and narrowly escape prosecution of illegal possession for some arms take away for cleaning before being taken to a museum .The law is the law and unfortunately there police/customs who do not think logically but act solely on the law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 Whether it will ever be able to be fired or not you would still be in possession of a section 1 fire arm and for that you will need a licence. Some years ago an acquaintance of mine was involved with the salvaging of a WW2 bomber and narrowly escape prosecution of illegal possession for some arms take away for cleaning before being taken to a museum .The law is the law and unfortunately there police/customs who do not think logically but act solely on the law. Why? Do you think it may still be in proof and operational? U Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 Why? Do you think it may still be in proof and operational? U Because it hasn't got a proof house certificate to say it's been deactivated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) Because it hasn't got a proof house certificate to say it's been deactivated Whilst a deac has to be done to laid down home office standards, which this rifle probably won't meet, no matter how corroded , it's not actually a legal requirement to have a proof house certificate for a deac. A good idea? Yes, as an easy way to prove the work meets the standard, but a legal requirement? No. Edited March 12, 2014 by Blunderbuss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1066 Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 Might be worth checking it hasn't got a live one up the spout too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saddler Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 Used to spend a great deal of time mooching around Normandy and tripping over similarly rusted to ******* old guns Dug up relics are NOT subject to the firearms act if they are beyond use...i.e. rusted to **** and about as much chance of working again as Jimmy Saville has of doing this years Top of the Pops Xmas Special Brought all sorts of junk back over the years. Inc. G43s and the like...all 100% legally allowed. If the other posters saying the gun is STILL section 1 don't believe me...look it up. Lots of such things are brought in from Europe every year, without any helicopter overhead or blue light escort Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 Used to spend a great deal of time mooching around Normandy and tripping over similarly rusted to ******* old guns Dug up relics are NOT subject to the firearms act if they are beyond use...i.e. rusted to **** and about as much chance of working again as Jimmy Saville has of doing this years Top of the Pops Xmas Special Brought all sorts of junk back over the years. Inc. G43s and the like...all 100% legally allowed. If the other posters saying the gun is STILL section 1 don't believe me...look it up. Lots of such things are brought in from Europe every year, without any helicopter overhead or blue light escort lol....funny how so many folk tie themselves up tighter than a very tight thing. Prostrating themselves almost! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bryanhu2 Posted March 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 Thanks for all the great replys guys, all good information and will help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel100 Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 Bryanhu2, If you are located in Germany then, German law will apply and you will need to establish if it may be legally held or not in Germany. Someone mentioned a 'unit armourer'. If you are with the military, I am sure that they will have their own protocols for you to abide by. If you are thinking of bringing it back to the UK you will need to establish if it will still be considered to be a s1 firearm under British law. Certainly, don't assume that it is OK because it is all rusted up! Police and Border Force can be notoriously lacking in a sense of humour! Good luck with the project. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeh Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 Any pictures? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 If your military ATO can advise and sign off as deactivated as war history or words to that effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 If your military ATO can advise and sign off as deactivated as war history or words to that effect. A common misconception but not strictly accurate. An AT or ATO can sign an "FFE Certificate" (Free From Explosives). This is for items of ammunition or explosives which are now expended or inert. It does not apply to firearms, other than to declare that they are unloaded and has no legal standing outside the military. It certainly couldn't be used to declare a firearm as legally deactivated. FFE certificates get issued for stuff like fired cartridge cases from tank guns or artillery pieces so blokes can turn them in to ash trays or umbrella stands. I say this as a former ATO of 23 years experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 A common misconception but not strictly accurate. An AT or ATO can sign an "FFE Certificate" (Free From Explosives). This is for items of ammunition or explosives which are now expended or inert. It does not apply to firearms, other than to declare that they are unloaded and has no legal standing outside the military. It certainly couldn't be used to declare a firearm as legally deactivated. FFE certificates get issued for stuff like fired cartridge cases from tank guns or artillery pieces so blokes can turn them in to ash trays or umbrella stands. I say this as a former ATO of 23 years experience. Ok ours did to bring things back from Tour my Snider and Martine Henry for example, just going off my experience. Your is greater apologies if I've miss lead people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 Interesting thread my friend a WW2 vet (a guy now in his mid nineties) was offered an old rusted up Webley service revolver by a similar aged ex-resistance fighter and avid handgun collector in France. My mate got the fact he couldn't bring it back on the plane this day and age but the French guy was harder to persuade. It would have been sort of nice to bring it back with us if there was a way. To be honest it was unusable as was but yes I could have made it back into a rather crude but functioning handgun, so it couldn't as I understand it be legal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 Re preserving From Soak in dewatering fluid and oil to preserve Through Think I'm right in saying traditional blueing requires the carded orange / red rust to be converted by boiling in deionised water to turn blue, then dewatered and oil applied to preserve, you could try similar and boil the thing whole! Done this way it'll keep it's originality rust balls n all To Glass bead blast it completely clean and then chemically black or rust blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 The most important thing mentioned earlier by someone is: MAKE SURE IT IS EMPTY! An old primer of use back then may be very unstable now! Bureaucratic red tape would pale into insignificance if I found a stuck chambered round still in it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzy518 Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 I reckon Harnser would be able to answer any questions on this . He found a whole bunker full of wartime stuff. 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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