stubby Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 looking at it from a land owners side (that's me) I'd have no probs with your wife shooting your gun whilst with you, however I would expect her to have her own insurance, otherwise it's no different than an uninsured driver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AULD YIN Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 (edited) Often wonder if anyone knows all the rules/laws regarding shooting as there are differences between england /Norn ireland/scotland,honestly don't know if any with wales.Be a great help if we could get guidance on here from the BASC re these matters. johnnie Edited April 12, 2014 by AULD YIN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Prawn Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 This very specific point though is one particularly that could do with clearing up once and for all, all these various interpretations of 'servant' and 'occupier' etc aren't anything other than people's best guess. It won't happen but let's fantasise that whichever way the interpretation falls it is worded as simple as 'you may (or may not) allow another person to use your shotgun/firearm whilst supervised by you, on land over which you have permission to shoot' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 This very specific point though is one particularly that could do with clearing up once and for all, all these various interpretations of 'servant' and 'occupier' etc aren't anything other than people's best guess. It won't happen but let's fantasise that whichever way the interpretation falls it is worded as simple as 'you may (or may not) allow another person to use your shotgun/firearm whilst supervised by you, on land over which you have permission to shoot' Define supervised. Think that could be added to the other two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deershooter Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 The law on lending shotguns was changed to the same as the "estate rifle rule " a number of years ago when Douglas Hogg MP Was nearly prosecuted for borrowing one Deershooter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 Define supervised. Think that could be added to the other two. Within earshot is the recognised definition in the case of shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 Within earshot is the recognised definition in the case of shooting. Please define earshot, would that be on a windy day or a still one ?.............with or without a hearing aid ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 You are within earshot if the barman in the public bar of the Exeter Inn can hear the shout of, 'a pint of cider, please' from the Black Cat forecourt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 (edited) Please define earshot, would that be on a windy day or a still one ?.............with or without a hearing aid ? Come on Charlie, that's easy, if he can hear you he is in earshot, if he can't he isn't! Edited April 13, 2014 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 Come on Charlie, that's easy, if he can hear you he is in earshot, if he can't he isn't! pardon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 Within earshot is the recognised definition in the case of shooting. Problem is it also includes 'in sight of' and as we know, there's none so blind as those who won't see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 Problem is it also includes 'in sight of' and as we know, there's none so blind as those who won't see. Sorry, correct of course..................... The term “in the presence of” is not defined in law but is generally interpreted as being within sight and earshot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Prawn Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 My intention of the word supervised would be that as the license holder you would also be accountable for the shooters behaviour, how you choose to do that supervision would need some clarification I know but I think there's no real reason for you to be anywhere other than right next to someone if you're supervising them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian1975 Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 I asked a simular question to basc as my dad likes to come shooting with me and he has'nt got a shotgun cert and this is the reply i got back of BASC so if the link works hope it helps unless someone has already beat me to it hahaha http://webmail.tiscali.co.uk/cp/ps/Mail/ExternalURLProxy?d=tiscali.co.uk&u=brian.gould1&url=http://basc.org.uk/firearms/guidance-and-fact-sheets/&urlHash=2.036587105284065E-279 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piebob Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 (edited) I asked a simular question to basc as my dad likes to come shooting with me and he has'nt got a shotgun cert and this is the reply i got back of BASC so if the link works hope it helps unless someone has already beat me to it hahaha http://webmail.tiscali.co.uk/cp/ps/Mail/ExternalURLProxy?d=tiscali.co.uk&u=brian.gould1&url=http://basc.org.uk/firearms/guidance-and-fact-sheets/&urlHash=2.036587105284065E-279 Yes, that's the info we are debating. It's not 100% clear re occupier and "any right". CharlieT will argue that granting someone permission to shoot rabbits is not the same as granting them a right to shoot rabbits. And that only when someone has some kind of formal agreement, such as perhaps a formal shooting lease, then they will have a right. This generally entails other resposibilities and liabilties. His emphasis is on the word "right" in its proper meaning. I tend to agree, but some will not and will put emphasis on the word "any" and argue that "any right" therefore means that if they have shooting permission they are classed as the occupier. Edited April 16, 2014 by Piebob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 Yes, that's the info we are debating. It's not 100% clear re occupier and "any right". CharlieT will argue that granting someone permission to shoot rabbits is not the same as granting them a right to shoot rabbits. And that only when someone has some kind of formal agreement, such as perhaps a formal shooting lease, then they will have a right. This generally entails other resposibilities and liabilties. His emphasis is on the word "right" in its proper meaning. I tend to agree, but some will not and will put emphasis on the word "any" and argue that "any right" therefore means that if they have shooting permission they are classed as the occupier. Brilliant summing up of the debate, far better put than I could have done. As I said previously, this matter is currently being discussed by ACPO, and anyone interested should have a read of their latest published minutes http://www.acpo.police.uk/documents/crime/2014/FELWG_27%20November%202013_Minutes.pdf and look at minuet 2.1 action note 6. It will be interesting on the ACPO/Home Office ruling that is finally published in the "guidance". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow white Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 To srspower you can aploy for fac with out being in a club i have got .22and 223 and not been in club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twistedsanity Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 Isn't is absolutely stupid that something as serious and important as firearms law and use appears to be such a grey area and is filled with opinions rather than facts, I even emailed BASC and enquired but they refused to answer and stated that I must telephone them for a chat , if a forum full of licence holders and the BASC can't give a definitive answer nor can a firearms officer what hope do any of us have of remaining within the legal boundaries ? Maybe the BASC could campaign to clarify the laws and make them understandable and simple for everyone rather than a grey are that requires 3 pages on a forum and a telephone chat and still only offers opinions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 Isn't is absolutely stupid that something as serious and important as firearms law and use appears to be such a grey area and is filled with opinions rather than facts, I even emailed BASC and enquired but they refused to answer and stated that I must telephone them for a chat , if a forum full of licence holders and the BASC can't give a definitive answer nor can a firearms officer what hope do any of us have of remaining within the legal boundaries ? Maybe the BASC could campaign to clarify the laws and make them understandable and simple for everyone rather than a grey are that requires 3 pages on a forum and a telephone chat and still only offers opinions But it is in the process of being clarified, see my post at 41 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.