Canada's and the GL

[The Croc]

Just a quick straw poll, how many of you have noticed a marked decline in Canada's since the were put on the GL? As I have said down here we've gone from a healthy population to, (last season) around 150 plus

[artschool]

there are as many as ever near me.

[kent]

in some areas its dramatic, in others far less so, just depends on who, what ways are used and how many are up to it. rifles wreck goose numbers especially in summer and too many misuse the GL as an excuse for more killing. Personally getting sort of despondent about some shooters ethics, I just cant say "sportsmen" about all of our kind you can shoot geese sept 1st to the end of Jan or 20th feb if on the foreshore, that's a 5 or near enough 6mnths shooting time! Why the heck if a bird is a real issue can we not do things in half the year when they are not breeding or have dependant young?

[The Croc]

I fully agree Kent, it's time the Canada came off the GL, would stop the summertime killing spree under the guise of the GL

 

Keep the replies coming guys, lets know what the situation is around the country

We've gone from around 1200 to 1500 to around 150 plus

[islandgun]

I fully agree Kent, it's time the Canada came off the GL, would stop the summertime killing spree under the guise of the GL

 

Keep the replies coming guys, lets know what the situation is around the country

We've gone from around 1200 to 1500 to around 150 plus

is this the fate of Greylags as well

[CharlieT]

in some areas its dramatic, in others far less so, just depends on who, what ways are used and how many are up to it. rifles wreck goose numbers especially in summer and too many misuse the GL as an excuse for more killing. Personally getting sort of despondent about some shooters ethics, I just cant say "sportsmen" about all of our kind you can shoot geese sept 1st to the end of Jan or 20th feb if on the foreshore, that's a 5 or near enough 6mnths shooting time! Why the heck if a bird is a real issue can we not do things in half the year when they are not breeding or have dependant young?

 

One must differentiate between Wildfowling (sport) and pest control. Like the Woodpigeon, the Canada is on the GL because, in certain situations and for varying reasons, it conflicts with man.

The ability to control Canada numbers, by the various legal methods, means land managers can tackle the problem as and when it happens and in a suitable way. The whole point of the exercise is to reduce numbers to an acceptable level, it's not much fun having 150 upwards roosting locally and having them feed over local crops.

 

By being able to control numbers in the summer for example gives land managers the opportunity to round up and cull them when they are flightless, thus allowing them to really get to grips with cull numbers.

 

Wildfowlers must learn to view the Canada as they do the Woody, as a pest species and get away from the rather selfish view that large numbers should be maintained for the sole purpose of providing them with sport during the season.

 

[artschool]

 

One must differentiate between Wildfowling (sport) and pest control. Like the Woodpigeon, the Canada is on the GL because, in certain situations and for varying reasons, it conflicts with man.

The ability to control Canada numbers, by the various legal methods, means land managers can tackle the problem as and when it happens and in a suitable way. The whole point of the exercise is to reduce numbers to an acceptable level, it's not much fun having 150 upwards roosting locally and having them feed over local crops.

 

By being able to control numbers in the summer for example gives land managers the opportunity to round up and cull them when they are flightless, thus allowing them to really get to grips with cull numbers.

 

Wildfowlers must learn to view the Canada as they do the Woody, as a pest species and get away from the rather selfish view that large numbers should be maintained for the sole purpose of providing them with sport during the season.

 

well said.

[holloway]

Cant see a flightless Canada goose being much of a problem on crops ,unless there is a conveniant bus service.....Try being a market gardner next to a large Pheasant shoot the damage done is unbelievable, only a matter of time before Natural England sets their sights on game birds, probably when they have ticked off the easier targets ! No such thing as game license any more then there will be no such thing as game birds, only the non native pest the Pheasant i wonder if BASC will support that one .Thin end of the wedge imho.

[CharlieT]

Cant see a flightless Canada goose being much of a problem on crops ,unless there is a conveniant bus service.....Try being a market gardner next to a large Pheasant shoot the damage done is unbelievable, only a matter of time before Natural England sets their sights on game birds, probably when they have ticked off the easier targets ! No such thing as game license any more then there will be no such thing as game birds, only the non native pest the Pheasant i wonder if BASC will support that one .Thin end of the wedge imho.

 

The point I was making is that when Canadas are flightless they can easily be rounded up and killed, thus killing very large numbers. I was not suggesting they cause more damage at that time.

[birdsallpl]

In the area where we operate we do have flocks of Greys and Canada's on the fields not in massive numbers but they are there. We also have some large areas of freshwater reservoirs etc which hold them. I know a lot of the local shooting fraternity but do not know any that would specifically go out to shoot Canada's out of the general Wildfowling season. Also in all the communications I have had with Farmers regarding crop protection I have only had one that asked us to shoot the geese if they're there. This as it happened was early on and still within the Wildfowling Season. I would like to think that none of our club members would shoot a goose whilst carrying out crop protection unless specifically told to (which doesn't happen). I think the responsible gun fraternity will take control of the situation ourselves. Sure we'll have the odd pillock that will slaughter but that is up to the rest of us to try and educate them.

[panoma1]

So with Greylags on the GL the irresponsible, opportunist cowboy will not shoot Greylags with lead shot? jackanory, jackanory, jackanory!!...........we are very close to a total ban on the use of lead shot for live quarry shooting in England and Wales (and probably throughout the UK?) thanks to our representative organisations past abject failure to protect shooting from the trap of accepting an unneccesary species specific element (only in England and Wales!!) of the lead shot ban bought about under the AEWB agreement, the protectionists must have been rubbing their hands? and here we are some years down the lead shot ban line, and certain elements within shooting will still not (and never have!!) comply with the law, and despite the threat continue to shoot ducks with lead! make no mistake a ban on lead shot is nearer than we think.....shooting Greylags with lead could be the final nail in leads coffin! and the protectionists will have won!

 

Do we seriously think that the protectionists haven't orchestrated this (getting the Greylag included on the GL) .........I can only foresee bad press for shooting from this........if so it appears our representative bodies have yet again failed to protect the future of shooting.

[The Croc]

Charlie crop protection from Canada's can be done quite happily with a Special Licence, if there's a problem, get a licence deal with the problem locally, not have them shot by every Tom Di ck and Harry on a sunday afternoon with the excuse there doing it for crop protection, just because they fancied shooting something

 

So what is wrong with the Special Licence that wouldn't cover what the GL does, without all the senseless slaughter elsewhere, ie if the problem birds are in, for arguments sake a farmers field in Oxford, why do the need to be shot out of season , if theyre not causing a problem in Kent?

Edited April 27, 2014 by The Croc

[anser2]

Canada numbers dropping fast on the marshes i shoot in Norfolk. Never a maor feature in my game bag , but in the last three seasons my bag of canadas has gone down fron 10 in 2011, 2 in 2012 and 1 in 2013 seasons. I was talking to a friend whon shoots near the fens at a wildfowling AGM on Friday and he said his shoot had held 3-350 for thepast decade until 2011. The local water authority culled flightless canadas on their lakes and his wintering flock had done down to 13 in 2012 and 3 in 2013.

 

Its getting to the stage where if one comes over I may leave it and stop shooting them in the hopes a few will survive .

[birdsallpl]

Has anyone actually witnessed Canada's being slaughtered in a mass way?

[anser2]

It always amuses me when people claim canadas are a problem when they have a few hundred on their shoot. On my marshes we can have 90,000 pink feet mainly feeding on the estate and yet they manage the geese without having to slaughter them.

Edited April 27, 2014 by anser2

[birdsallpl]

I guess the difference is they clear of back to Iceland etc. I'm sure if they were resident birds they would have been exterminated years ago in the so called wonderful Wildfowling days of Hawker and others

[CharlieT]

It always amuses me when people claim canadas are a problem when they have a few hundred on their shoot. On my marshes we can have 90,000 pink feet mainly feeding on the estate and yet they manage the geese without having to slaughter them.

 

Again, I must stress we have to accept that their numbers are, in many inland areas, way above what is a tolerable number.

 

The national population, of what is basically a feral goose, descendants from private collections, has, in my lifetime, increased from around 2000 to 80,000 in number. The vast majority of these live inland and cause much nuisance, be it to farmers, parks, rivers or public health. To argue that, in areas where they cause a nuisance, they do not need culling is plain daft, It's like suggesting pigeon and other avian pests should have a season so that there are more about "in season" to provide increased bags.

 

Anyone who has lived with the damage, mess and nuisance these birds cause will be delighted that numbers are now starting to fall and will look forward to the day when the national flock is down to an acceptable level. It goes to prove that the GL is working.

[motty]

I don't understand the need for culling greys or canadas. I shoot on a farm that has a few reservoirs around it. There are several hundred greys there. I have asked for permission to shoot a few throughout the season, but the farmer won't let me. He said they don't do any real damage, so there's no need to shoot them.

I understand the need to control certain populations of geese, ie Orkney, but I still don't see the need for culling populations of geese throughout the UK.

[motty]

 

Again, I must stress we have to accept that their numbers are, in many inland areas, way above what is a tolerable number.

 

The national population, of what is basically a feral goose, descendants from private collections, has, in my lifetime, increased from around 2000 to 80,000 in number. The vast majority of these live inland and cause much nuisance, be it to farmers, parks, rivers or public health. To argue that, in areas where they cause a nuisance, they do not need culling is plain daft, It's like suggesting pigeon and other avian pests should have a season so that there are more about "in season" to provide increased bags.

 

Anyone who has lived with the damage, mess and nuisance these birds cause will be delighted that numbers are now starting to fall and will look forward to the day when the national flock is down to an acceptable level. It goes to prove that the GL is working.

I don't think you can compare the woodpigeon to geese. I would say pigeons are a major pest, numbering in many millions in the Uk, and geese are a minor pest.

[anser2]

I agree Motty. I was at a meeting last week where this matter was debated with two officers of BASC and local windfowlers . One farmer who has hundreds of greylag and used to have large numbers of canadas before their local decline said the were no real problem. His main concerns were with brent geese rather than feral geese.

 

The amount of damage geese do is but a tiny drop in the ocean compared to what rabbits and pigeons can do and a lot simpler to control.

[scolopax]

I agree Motty. I was at a meeting last week where this matter was debated with two officers of BASC and local windfowlers . One farmer who has hundreds of greylag and used to have large numbers of canadas before their local decline said the were no real problem. His main concerns were with brent geese rather than feral greys

 

The amount of damage geese do is but a tiny drop in the ocean compared to what rabbits and pigeons can do and a lot simpler to control.

 

I would also say it is true that pheasants and redleg partridge do more crop damage than all the wildfowl species put together, but I do not see them going onto the GL, well not yet anyway!

[kent]

One must differentiate between Wildfowling (sport) and pest control. Like the Woodpigeon, the Canada is on the GL because, in certain situations and for varying reasons, it conflicts with man.

The ability to control Canada numbers, by the various legal methods, means land managers can tackle the problem as and when it happens and in a suitable way. The whole point of the exercise is to reduce numbers to an acceptable level, it's not much fun having 150 upwards roosting locally and having them feed over local crops.

 

By being able to control numbers in the summer for example gives land managers the opportunity to round up and cull them when they are flightless, thus allowing them to really get to grips with cull numbers.

 

Wildfowlers must learn to view the Canada as they do the Woody, as a pest species and get away from the rather selfish view that large numbers should be maintained for the sole purpose of providing them with sport during the season.

 

My comment state the "MISUSE" of the GL which we all know is an issue. I have turned down shooting of Canadas because I offered to reduce them in season but then the cows were on feed and the farmer didn't care. Once he was trying to re-seed and feed the cows outdoors they were an issue! Turned it down we have half the year to control them when they have full flight and no dependant young. Woodies are shot for sport in areas they are not doing harm and have been for years this is one reason why we are getting all this flack about scaring them off actively before picking up a gun etc.

[kent]

I would also say it is true that pheasants and redleg partridge do more crop damage than all the wildfowl species put together, but I do not see them going onto the GL, well not yet anyway!

For revenge alone it might be worth pushing for it as revenge on the foolish game shots who wanted GL on greys ( I am not being 100% serious but could change my mind LOL)

is this the fate of Greylags as well

Yes unless we stop it

[artschool]

I don't understand the need for culling greys or canadas. I shoot on a farm that has a few reservoirs around it. There are several hundred greys there. I have asked for permission to shoot a few throughout the season, but the farmer won't let me. He said they don't do any real damage, so there's no need to shoot them.

I understand the need to control certain populations of geese, ie Orkney, but I still don't see the need for culling populations of geese throughout the UK.

i shoot on a farm that has canadas as well. they are the only thing that the farmer wants rid of because of the damage.

[scolopax]

i shoot on a farm that has canadas as well. they are the only thing that the farmer wants rid of because of the damage.

 

How much damage, to what and when ?

 

Farmers have different perceptions of crop damage. I have never seen damage to crops which I would call significant from resident geese.