patbuSWE Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 Greetings, I am currently browsing the UK market for a new shotgun. I currently have a Sabel 25 Sidelock, made by Garbi and might try an English 25" gun with a Churchill rib, or just get an English 28" lightweight gun..or both I am however curious if there would be any significant difference between a "real" Churchill XXV and if I find, say a Boswell or Atkinson at 25" with a Churchill rib? A churchill XXV is above my pricerange, but I have been looking at the two above makes, as well as a Carswell in 25", but when I can't touch and feel the gun it's somewhat of a gamble, so I want to minimize the risk as much as I can. I have read somewhere that Atkinson worked for Churchill at some point, if that could make any difference... So, does anyone have any experience with a Churchill XXV compared to other 25" guns and are there any significant difference, or do you even have any recommendation of a gun under £1000 that in your opinion is just as nice to handle as a Churchill XXV? Best regards, /Patrik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_b_wales Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 Hi Patrick. Welcome to PW. Enjoy your stay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
la bala Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 Welcome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudpatten Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 I think you`d have to be sure with an older English gun that it was actually built with 25"tubes and has not been shortened later, either because of damage or fashion. The barrel profile and therefore the balance and handling characteristics of a gun that has been shortened will not be the same as one made at that length. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullet boy Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 Welcome to PW . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunman Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 Take three guns of the same model and one will no doubt fell better to you . It may not be the same gun that feels best to me. Handling is in the eye or hands of the holder , so it is a matter of "suck it and see". Be also aware that most of these guns will have a stock length ion the region of 14&1/2"and will be lighter than the Sable .Without a direct comparison as to the build quality i.e.. type of lever work , safe etc. the main difference will be price Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAVE_B Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 Hi Patrik, to PW! Enjoy your visits . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted May 3, 2014 Report Share Posted May 3, 2014 I've had two. A 1947 'Regal' made for a one armed man and a 1934 'Utility (same model, different name). The former gave me problems and the latter, some, but less so. It's worth mentioning that you will have (probably) 21/2" chambers and 11/8 ton/sq" working pressure. Repairs can be costly and because of age, they will be required sooner or later. I now have a c1964 AYA 25" boxlock. I got it for £600 but it had been over-serviced (excess oil) and was cosmetically a mess. UK Gun Repairs sorted this out for a further couple of £100. It's now pristine and so far, fault free. It is chambered as above. Which do I prefer? Have a guess! The AYA serial numbers are easily found on t'net and particularly if you can find an older one in fine fettle, I would recommend them well above all others. Still being in production, spares are more readily available if required. If you do go for English, then you're halfway there already with your choice of a sxs. Toss in two triggers and a non ejector (which most of the time you don't need anyway and its lack saves you having to crawl about picking up the empties) which all helps to make them relatively unpopular and instantly something half decent falls into your price range. 'The House of Churchill' by Masters is a superb read if you are set on that make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rimfire4969 Posted May 3, 2014 Report Share Posted May 3, 2014 I had a AYA 25, fantastic little side by side, great Woodcock gun. I sold it on for about £600.00. If i wanted another short barreled side by side that would not break the bank this would be at the top of my list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patbuSWE Posted May 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2014 Thanks for the welcomes, I hope to avoid shortened barrels by only looking at 25" with a Churchill rib which I think should be (almost) exclusive for guns built for 25" and ignore guns choked cylinder/cylinder. My 25" weighing in at 6,1 lbs has actually been a bit lighter than most I have looked at, of course the Churchills I can't afford can sometimes be seen well below that. Other than an english 25" I have considered an Aya 25, a 28" english sbs, a Darne - and to prove my schizofrenic nature a lightweight B25 A1. I want double triggers and preferably 2 3/4, absence of ejectors wont break a deal, but I like them. Currently it looks like I will buy an english 25" - and maybe add a 28" as well - but I have also stumbled across a cheap Aya 25 Boxlock, so I might start with those two and compare which of the 25s I want, and get a 28" after that. Unfortunately we have a limit on the number of guns we can have and I have the maximum number, so I need to sell one for each I want to buy. That in combination with processing times for a license being up to 8 weeks makes this a rather tedious affair, so I don't know if I want to wait with a 28" to try two different 25" :( I will have a look for the book, thanks. Best regards, /Patrik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theshootist Posted May 12, 2014 Report Share Posted May 12, 2014 Thanks for the welcomes, I hope to avoid shortened barrels by only looking at 25" with a Churchill rib which I think should be (almost) exclusive for guns built for 25" and ignore guns choked cylinder/cylinder. My 25" weighing in at 6,1 lbs has actually been a bit lighter than most I have looked at, of course the Churchills I can't afford can sometimes be seen well below that. Other than an english 25" I have considered an Aya 25, a 28" english sbs, a Darne - and to prove my schizofrenic nature a lightweight B25 A1. I want double triggers and preferably 2 3/4, absence of ejectors wont break a deal, but I like them. Currently it looks like I will buy an english 25" - and maybe add a 28" as well - but I have also stumbled across a cheap Aya 25 Boxlock, so I might start with those two and compare which of the 25s I want, and get a 28" after that. Unfortunately we have a limit on the number of guns we can have and I have the maximum number, so I need to sell one for each I want to buy. That in combination with processing times for a license being up to 8 weeks makes this a rather tedious affair, so I don't know if I want to wait with a 28" to try two different 25" :( I will have a look for the book, thanks. Best regards, /Patrik I shoot a Webley 700 with a Churchill rib and 26" 2&3/4" tubes (bought from a PW member I recall) and have recently bought a similar 30" gun. For under 1k you should be able to find a birmingham made box lock. Personally I much prefer an ejector for all my shooting, pulling out those empties is just too slow when you can have them thrown up into a waiting hand. I have not shot an AYA XXV, but another boxlock that strikes me as amazing value is one of the Mirokus that very occasionally appear. They are very well put together. In response to your original question as to whether you will tell the difference between a Churchill and an Atkin or Boswell, I would think not. Those are very good names and when XXV barrels were popularised everyone would have made them. Remember many of the top name boxlocks were made by the Birminham trade and finished by the London name. AYA XXV - great. B25 - good choice. Darne - steady on!! Very strange action and the stocks never look like they are very strong, but if you want something different... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenhunter Posted May 13, 2014 Report Share Posted May 13, 2014 AYA xxv for me too! Regret selling mine. It was light, fast handling and very pointable. Only got £500 for it so they can be relatively cheap. Mine was in excellent condition with most of the colour left. A classey looking gun imo. GH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_b_wales Posted May 13, 2014 Report Share Posted May 13, 2014 Hi Patrick. Welcome to PW. Enjoy your stay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxy bingo Posted May 13, 2014 Report Share Posted May 13, 2014 to pw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patbuSWE Posted May 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2014 Hi again, I ended up buying an Atkinson (Joseph Asbury) BLNE Churchill ribbed original barrel 25" in good shape, weighing in on 6 lbs flat. I also bought a Cogswell&Harrison BLE 28" with original barrels in close to mint condition, they should complement each other nicely I hope. Now all I need to do is stop going mental while waiting for the authorities to process my gun- and import licenses, which currently are up to some 8 weeks, bah :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeonblasterian Posted July 3, 2014 Report Share Posted July 3, 2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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