demonwolf444 Posted June 22, 2014 Report Share Posted June 22, 2014 Okay i always have lots of things on generally only the big things make it up on here, but i am constantly sewing whittling and scraping something or other. The current project is a slingsby of boston back action side lock non ejector with damascus barrels, to put it bluntly it has so far been more project than i signed up for. The action is tight, the barrels are nitro proofed. Things that were wrong when i received it was ( in the order in which i noticed them ) Cracked stock. Bent trigger guard. Loose Forend. Loose Top Lever. Broken firing pin. Raised ribs. Sight bead is in the wrong position as someone has shortened the barrels in the past. It was much more project than i anticipated. Though from ten feet away it was hard to see all of these problems. I am working from the barrels back, metal work first then wood work. So far i have dug around in the parts box and found the broken trigger guard of the linsley brothers which is really nicely engraved, and then welded it on to the tang of the slings by original which has given me a non bent trigger guard that looks "right". As the previous one had been bent this way and that so much it would never look right again. - so that's the trigger guard sorted. I have also sought help with relaying the ribs so that's the ribs laid back properly. Incidentally because the ribs were loose the forend loop was also loose which was why the forend was loose, everything is back together and tight now So that is the ribs and forend sorted. Completely forgot about photo's, until this point, so here is the barrels stripped after relaying the ribs. Now re browning the barrels which went well because of the humid weather recently. More coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonwolf444 Posted June 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2014 Finishing the browning on the barrels. The finish still needs polishing out, but need to get some more fine paper to finish the finish. Few pictures of what i am working with here. See some more of my brilliant welding here.. in fairness i think i am getting better at welding. The original guard was bent backwards forwards and all over, like it had been used as a fence post knocker... it would at least explain the damage to the stock. I think the guard sits right on the gun - i was lucky the threads were the same. Top lever leaves me with two options as i see it; heat and vice jaws to to remove some of the play - Bodge job method. Thing is it will eventually wear out again. Or Add some metal by welding and file the slot back to fit. The difficulty being that i could disrupt the counter sink for the screw that holds the lever down, the heat from welding could make it warp, which would both just create more problems for me. Bottom of the gun.. Annoyingly i see now the the guard i put on the linsley brothers would match the engraving on this gun perfectly. I may swap them if there is enough length for the inlet on the linsley brothers. Next thing i will turn my files to will either be the firing pin on the left barrel which has a chip out the back which prevents the hammer from pushing it forward or the top lever as rambled about above. Cheers James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackpowder Posted June 22, 2014 Report Share Posted June 22, 2014 That is a beautiful old gun and great you are restoring it. Blackpowder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonwolf444 Posted June 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2014 Also playing around with some leather at the moment to make a cartridge box for when i am out muzzle loading; should have an easily accessible pouch for caps should fit about 30 pre made cartridges. Pouch on the side for a knife or small tool. All made from recycled saddle leather. James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted June 22, 2014 Report Share Posted June 22, 2014 i am looking forward to seeing that finished................ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonwolf444 Posted June 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2014 Should have some nice wood for her. The mechanism is tight and it had really nice lines and it comes up well. So i can't wait to get started on it, its the first side lock i will turn my hand to. Its the same as doing a boxlock then doing the sidelocks as on the muzzle loader. Its not going to be easy there is a lot of wood to remove. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted June 22, 2014 Report Share Posted June 22, 2014 just looking at the 3rd pic' have the barrells been sleeved........i can see a joint mark on the top rib....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted June 22, 2014 Report Share Posted June 22, 2014 Nice project that will test you but enhance your current good skills again. Keep it up will be a lovely gun. Like the pouch as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonwolf444 Posted June 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2014 NO! The barrels have not been sleeved! Barrels that have been sleeved must be marked by the proof house as "SLEEVED" The process of sleeving certainly saves a gun, but its a blessing and a curse, often the original balance of the gun is lost and thus the fine handling that is apparent with higher end guns. It also seriously impacts the value of a gun, generally by 50% or more from what i have seen. This is odd as modern over under barrels are almost always sleeved in from new from my knowledge of the subject. Damascus barrels are easy to spot if sleeved. The small line you see in the pictures of my barrels ( not above ) in that the top rib is not the full length of the barrel ( this is almost always the case. ) the two inch stub you see prior to that small line is brazed to the barrels at a much higher temperature. When the top rib was removed and re laid it was nocked about a bit in the workshop before the work was carried out and also where it was rejoined would not have exactly matched the original position, hence the small line. Generally around this area you see some simple engraving to help hide the line. The engraving on this rib has warn out entirely on this gun. It was at one time engraved with a double line and vine work over the line you noticed and also the legend "Slingsby Boston" which is badly worn. I have seen Damascus tubes sleeved with new manufacture Damascus, while much less a ruination of an old gun it still never looks right as damascus like wood had an individual grain and character and will take to browning differently, as such the sleeve is almost always visible. Damascus barrels were usually made for Black powder, black powder burns differently to smokeless, hence why there is confusion about using nitro in Damascus guns. If they are proofed for nitro and are well within proof and you stick to low pressure loads its fine. However generally the barrels were designed to shoot black powder which has a high pressure at the breech and very little at the muzzle so the barrels can be very thin at the muzzle and be fine for black powder. On that point i know of muzzle loading guns that are still being shot that are paper thin at the muzzle or even rusted right through near the muzzle, or that are patched with decent quality welding, as for black powder the integrity of the breech is the most important thing. On the point of saving old guns, i know for sometimes Nigel Teague of teague chokes fame, developed a process of back boring the old Damascus barrels and lining them with new tubes, this process preserved the fine damascus patterning on some old guns however the process was far from perfect and is no longer offered. From my limited reading the tubes were back bored the new tubed inserted and threaded and glued into place. however the problems related towards the heating of the barrels upon firing changing effecting the glue and creating a rippled affect along the length of the barrels from this odd expansion and contraction stress. Its also reported the handling was never quite the same. Cheers Daf, have to exercise the muscle, just a shame i have to inflict myself on these guns to do so! James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonwolf444 Posted June 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2014 Might be of interest http://www.hallowellco.com/damascus_twist_barrels.htm Short article on damascus and its manufacture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiffy Posted June 22, 2014 Report Share Posted June 22, 2014 i'll say pme thing... you do like to keep yourself busy with all these projects you do... and each one seems to get better and better i like the muzzle loading bag, im looking at getting a new one myself soon (you got me addicted to muzzle loading!) so will be looking for something similar myself... although i wont make it, no wjere near the talent to make someone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted June 22, 2014 Report Share Posted June 22, 2014 There is a difference in the quality of sleeving work I have had a Purdey in that was sleeved by Purdey it retained it's excellent handling and lines the joint was done to a very high level and discrete engraving in the new mono block barrel area hid it so it was very hard to spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted June 22, 2014 Report Share Posted June 22, 2014 Others have been easy to spot from 5m and some I think 2 random piece of gas pipe had been used to make an ugly front heavy C0ck up of a gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hector Vector Posted June 22, 2014 Report Share Posted June 22, 2014 Sleeving definitely doesn't have to be detrimental. This one has been sleeved; it is not obvious to the casual observer nor has it's handing been compromised. It does feel different to most of my other guns but it is the only long barreled small bore hammer gun I have so I would expect it to! Modern guns aren't so much "sleeved" from new but constructed on the "monoblock" principle. Not quite the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonwolf444 Posted June 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2014 (edited) Cheers for clearing that up fellas i stand corrected on my indictment of sleeving ! My own knowledge of sleeved barrels is purely academic in that i have a vague understanding of how the process is carried out and have generally witnessed guns with sleeved barrels be at considerably lower prices than those original. I have also read that it is actually possible for the sleeve to be as strong or stronger than the original barrel so the reduction in price is not a reflection of and issues mechanically but more in that its lost its originality, which is often the great motive from the collectors point of view. Thanks for sharing the picture and information guys, that seems to be a nicely done job on those barrels, nothing like a hammer gun ( space in the cabinet reserved for one!) Edited June 23, 2014 by demonwolf444 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted June 23, 2014 Report Share Posted June 23, 2014 Cheers for clearing that up fellas i stand corrected on my indictment of sleeving ! My own knowledge of sleeved barrels is purely academic in that i have a vague understanding of how the process is carried out and have generally witnessed guns with sleeved barrels be at considerably lower prices than those original. I have also read that it is actually possible for the sleeve to be as strong or stronger than the original barrel so the reduction in price is not a reflection of and issues mechanically but more in that its lost its originality, which is often the great motive from the collectors point of view. Thanks for sharing the picture and information guys, that seems to be a nicely done job on those barrels, nothing like a hammer gun ( space in the cabinet reserved for one!) Do you fancy one as a project ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 are you going to make a new stock and forend ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonwolf444 Posted June 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 I will be making a new stock and forend. The forend is sound but wont take re chequering as its very thin, and has many old chips and repairs. The stock is in terrible condition it has been pinned pretty much everywhere around the locks and trigger plate, crack running through the wrist and wooden pegs around the lock plate. It would probably not stand up to a single shot. The side on the pictures is its better side; i should get some of the damage for you. Old farrier pm sent! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonwolf444 Posted June 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2014 The firing pin. The left hand firing pin had a chip out the back of it which prevented the hammer from pushing it far enough forward to make contact with the primer. It was probably misfiring regularly whenever it was last shot. So i built the back of it up with some weld. Image is from before shaping the pin back down to the correct dimensions. Bluing both pins ( just because i felt like it ) and reassembling. I let a couple of primed hulls off just to check if it would go alright and it seems to be functioning flawlessly. Always have to keep the door open when working with the oil lamp, smoke creeps up on you. Missing my head torch at the moment, I'll have to buy another good direct white light helps a lot. Playing about with a for end at the moment. Getting good contact. Rather reminds me of potato printing as a child. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgguinness Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 Looking really well mate. Some excellent work going on there. I will be following this post with great interest Kind regards Jonathan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonwolf444 Posted July 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2014 Cheers mate - i'm always fiddling away with something! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted July 2, 2014 Report Share Posted July 2, 2014 Good wood to metal fit there should look nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonwolf444 Posted July 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2014 Cheers buddy - will admit its my second time around on this one - first attempt was a short sharp leaning curve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy RV Posted July 5, 2014 Report Share Posted July 5, 2014 Looks great! I have a very similar sidelock, mine is a H Vint, you can see in this picture the barrels have been sleeved; Mine is also suffering from poorly woodwork, the end of the stock has been soaked in oil and is disintegrating, I've got a nice walnut stock blank to go on it eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonwolf444 Posted July 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2014 Very similar indeed! Even the wood work is not dissimilar, though the engraving is different on yours. Wood to metal fit on this is going to be absolutely crucial, anything but a perfect fit is going to end up with all the same problems as the current stock in a short amount of time as there is very little wood around the action taking the force of the recoil. The way i intend to approach this stock is to head it up and inlet the top tang and trigger group as i would if i was doing a boxlock. Then dissassemble the locks and inlet the lock plates followed up by each component. Been looking in a lot more detail at the shape of stocks and how they have changed over time as well as chequering patterns, so hopefully they will filter through some refinements when i am making this next stock - though that remains to be seen. James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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