Woodlander Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 Fingers crossed,variation should be through fairly soon and want to start reloading as soon as I can. Looking for a load that will be fast , flat and accurate, primarily for shooting rabbit, but also better able to handle a stiff breeze. Also wondering whether it's worth using 2 loads for differing conditions or just sticking with the 1. Regretting not going for a .204,so thinking whether it's possible to get close,ballistically,to that calibre. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. The rifle is a Tikka 595 with 21 1/2 inch barrel. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amazed Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 Hi pal, I have a few loads running at the mo, But as things are hard to find I would start with what you can get a regular supply of. I don't advocate you copy thease loads and you work up from up to date data to get the correct load for your chamber! They are all with in the min/ max of the latest published loads. But hear are my main loads, Target: 22.0 gr h322 rem 7 1/2 brp 52 gr sierra match king Lapua brass seated to 2.180 Rabbit fox corvid good to 300+ yards 22.0 gr h322 rem 7 1/2 brp 50 gr vmax Lapua brass seated to 2.220 Rabbit fox bit faster not as accurate. 20.0 gr h4198 rem 7 1/2 brp 50 gr vmax lapua brass seated to 2.220 Crono= 2900 fps Bit more exotic not really recommend but worth it if you have the bits already. 16.5 gr vit n110 fed 205 srp 40 gr vmax ppu brass seated to 2.150 Please note there is no published data for this load ! (17.5 gr vit n110 fed205 srp 30 gr berger varmint ppu brass seated to 2.055 Crono = 3600 fps ) I may have the same gun as you but bare in mind that my barrel is only 16 inch so you will find different velocities achieved. H322 with a 40 vmax should achieve in your barrel 3400/3500 fps ish. All the best Karl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 It has been a while but my favourite 222 powders are H322. RL7 and BL-C2. 40grn bullets can be driven really quick! Well I did in my three rifles. BL-C2 is very forgiving when working up hot loads. Dont lament having a 222. It is capable of a little more than book due to some early light actions it was lumped with. Your action is no problem. You will enjoy this majic little round I am sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matone Posted July 23, 2014 Report Share Posted July 23, 2014 Once you`ve used it for a while,you`ll forget about the.204 idea ! Suggest Hodgdon H4198 and 40gr Vmax if you want fast & flat. Hth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodlander Posted July 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2014 Thank you very much guys,that gives me plenty of info to be going on with.No doubt I'll be needing more help when the time comes,good to know help and advice is shared so readily on this site, cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bewsher500 Posted July 23, 2014 Report Share Posted July 23, 2014 .222 is a very easy round to reload for you will struggle to make a bad round find what powders and bullets you can get hold of that will dictate the starting point I use N133 under 60gr Hornady Soft Points for Roe and 52gr Amax for everything else I don't see the benefit of the 40gr rounds 50gr would be my lowest weight if I had to I moved from 50gr VMax for foxes which were awesome and rarely exited (a requirement when shooting in urban environments) to 52gr AMax purely on cost and postability Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted July 23, 2014 Report Share Posted July 23, 2014 Are you wanting to eat these bunnies? if so seriously think of limiting the velocity to under 3000 fps. Unfortunatly you cant really ever outgun a reasonable wind with a .222 and the projectile they fire unless your at usual rimfire ranges, so personally I shouldn't concern yourself overly about it (spend time learning how the load reacts to the wind and the compensation required rather than on the net trying to find the best bc). At the end of the day how well it shoots is the primary factor. You don't need 3200fps+ and the highest BC bullet to shoot rabbits at 200 ish, you need a predicable one that gives great accuracy and good wind reading. Even the mentioned .204 with a screeching load and high BC bullet has enough drift to miss once the wind needs much correction, you likely chose the right gun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted July 23, 2014 Report Share Posted July 23, 2014 Don`t use mine on rabbits but I use n133 and H4198 which both do the job with 50 and 40 gn Vmax and SP`s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy Posted July 23, 2014 Report Share Posted July 23, 2014 Kent, Dont take this as a dig please, but i would like to know why the velocity of a bullet thats designed to fragment at say for example 1,500 fps on impact, (exact figures i dont have with me as i'm resticted on PC at work) would a drop of say 200fps make much difference as you suggest, or were you refering to the accuracy being greater at 200fps less. Just for an example i could head shoot bunnies with 55grain Nosler BT consistantly out at the ranges you suggest. And there shifting quite allot more than your suggested 3000 fps. But why the suggested drop in velocity surly thats only complicating things. :unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin lad Posted July 23, 2014 Report Share Posted July 23, 2014 22.2g of h322 with rem 7.5 primers and 50g hornaday vmax for me and they do all i want very accurate in my gun Colin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted July 23, 2014 Report Share Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) Kent, Dont take this as a dig please, but i would like to know why the velocity of a bullet thats designed to fragment at say for example 1,500 fps on impact, (exact figures i dont have with me as i'm resticted on PC at work) would a drop of say 200fps make much difference as you suggest, or were you refering to the accuracy being greater at 200fps less. Just for an example i could head shoot bunnies with 55grain Nosler BT consistantly out at the ranges you suggest. And there shifting quite allot more than your suggested 3000 fps. But why the suggested drop in velocity surly thats only complicating things. :unsure: To be fair a good question, its too much kinetic energy. The science bit is just practical field experience, not saying you cant ever shoot bunnies with a pill doing 3300 fps at the muzzle and have a viable carcass, just depends on the actual impact speed, placement and bullet. Bullet choice is very relevant your correct (the OP will have to suck it and see on that one) but to be fair hit them too fast and you will blow them up with a FMJ. None of this matters a jot if the OP is going to leave them out for the crows. Now say you run a .224 bullet at around 2800-2900 fps your only going to be 1-2 MOA low at 200 depending on choice and set zero at optimum (120-140 yards at a guess). Now get fancy and say you want to shoot them in the head at 300 yards, drive them faster as the impact will be lower but don't expect to dope those shots too good 1-1/2" is like 1/2 moa at 300 and you just don't see people that good first shot in the field. hope the long answer clears it up Edited July 23, 2014 by kent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy Posted July 23, 2014 Report Share Posted July 23, 2014 Still can't understand why its an advantage to drop tbe MV, I can only see it as adding problems to the op, mentioning lowered velocity, to less than 3000fps, so the guy will need a chronograph, no !!! Just keep things simple, load a decent round that groups well, which in 222 is one of the easier cal to find. Go out and practice at up to your bunny's range. 1.5 inches should be very doable at 200yards. If the breeze is too much for the op to group 1.5 at 200 the advice I would give to Woldlander is practice on paper or dandelions, rocks or similar on those day's. Dougy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amazed Posted July 23, 2014 Report Share Posted July 23, 2014 I think the situation is getting over complicated. I personally love the 222 and want to keep mine as is, maybe a new barrel one day when I'm flush A 50 gr bullet in a 222 gives the magic balance of bullet to case ratio and in the right hands well it can perform admirably 49/50 at 200 yards in a McQueens in a fair wind I may add Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted July 24, 2014 Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 Still can't understand why its an advantage to drop tbe MV, I can only see it as adding problems to the op, mentioning lowered velocity, to less than 3000fps, so the guy will need a chronograph, no !!! Just keep things simple, load a decent round that groups well, which in 222 is one of the easier cal to find. Go out and practice at up to your bunny's range. 1.5 inches should be very doable at 200yards. If the breeze is too much for the op to group 1.5 at 200 the advice I would give to Woldlander is practice on paper or dandelions, rocks or similar on those day's. Dougy. If the OP is interested in windages and longer range shooting a Chronographed velocity of his load is pretty important for working out his initial dope, without it then too many guesses. For me personally picking the best handload without one is petty much pot luck, not that I want the fastest but I do want the most consistent and confirmation the fill is all being burned. Its also a good double check I aint running too hot as sometimes pressure don't show real clear and obvious until your well up in the danger zone, if your well up on book it shouldn't be taken as a good thing. Its not like they are mega bucks these days, compared to all the useless junk we tend to accumulate over the years they are a gem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted July 24, 2014 Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 Zzzzzzzz zzzzzzzz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy Posted July 24, 2014 Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 If the OP is interested in windages and longer range shooting a Chronographed velocity of his load is pretty important for working out his initial dope, without it then too many guesses. For me personally picking the best handload without one is petty much pot luck, not that I want the fastest but I do want the most consistent and confirmation the fill is all being burned. Its also a good double check I aint running too hot as sometimes pressure don't show real clear and obvious until your well up in the danger zone, if your well up on book it shouldn't be taken as a good thing. Its not like they are mega bucks these days, compared to all the useless junk we tend to accumulate over the years they are a gem Kent but your only complicating things, the lad whants to go out and shoot, he's not mentioned about entering the next world championship target shooting compo at Bisley, , and before you jump onto your box, i know you didnt mention that either. But for goodness sake why on gods little earth mention anything about dropping the Velocity, there is absolutely no need to drop velocity, you more likely to enccorage the op to reduce loads where there is no need too at all. And i am sure your aware that in itself can cause more pressure issues. specially to a newcomer to reloading .sticking to book data is fine You cannot argue with what shows on paper, zero at 100, shoot at 200 measure the drop- adjust acordingly. Chronos are OK yes i agree for the drop but you still cant beat actual holes in paper and then check your velocity with your drop chart Ballistic App or whatever you choose. How would i know if all the powder i put in my case was burnt, i have absolutely no idea. So far as my shooting long (ish) range goes i dont do to bad. But maybe if i knew how much powder i "didnt" burn each time i could do better. Naaaaaa!!! KISS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malkiserow Posted July 24, 2014 Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 well I saw some of my unburned powder after I pulled the trigger yesterday ..... it was in the form of a flash.... well so it was burned yes, but wasted burn probably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted July 24, 2014 Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 Hi woodlander Hope your variation goes well My input and im no expert on Reloding Would be buy 50 .... 50 grain soft points Winchester or Remington or a decent brand that's available as your going to need a base line to work to and some empty cases see how they group at 100 yards then back off to 150 then 200 you should be able to see how the gun grouped Postage stamp at 100 should be achievable with factory loads A lot can depend on your scope and mount choice though If your a inexperienced loader (like me ) you may struggle to get the consistency of factory loads and find there adequate Lot of satisfaction to Reloding and very accurate ammo is produced I only use mine on foxes and long crows and long in my area is 150 yards Well inside its capability Enjoy your new gun All the best Of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted July 24, 2014 Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 Kent but your only complicating things, the lad whants to go out and shoot, he's not mentioned about entering the next world championship target shooting compo at Bisley, , and before you jump onto your box, i know you didnt mention that either. But for goodness sake why on gods little earth mention anything about dropping the Velocity, there is absolutely no need to drop velocity, you more likely to enccorage the op to reduce loads where there is no need too at all. And i am sure your aware that in itself can cause more pressure issues. specially to a newcomer to reloading .sticking to book data is fine You cannot argue with what shows on paper, zero at 100, shoot at 200 measure the drop- adjust acordingly. Chronos are OK yes i agree for the drop but you still cant beat actual holes in paper and then check your velocity with your drop chart Ballistic App or whatever you choose. How would i know if all the powder i put in my case was burnt, i have absolutely no idea. So far as my shooting long (ish) range goes i dont do to bad. But maybe if i knew how much powder i "didnt" burn each time i could do better. Naaaaaa!!! KISS The app aint a lot of good if you put the wrong speed in from a wild guess (put trash in get trash out) - my point made on getting the initial dope (sorry that's might be known as drop and drift numbers in long hand)! You will know when the extra powder aint burned because you put more in and fail to gain more speed out . Cant agree on setting up a rifle at 100 and measuring what it does at 200 - the .222 should even with a 3000 fps load go out at the very least another 30 yards or quite likely 50-60 keeping on a rabbits head and giving less drop at 200 (cant be a bad thing can it?) Over and out, answers given. Target shooting is nothing to do with this and is a bit sissy in direct comparison really coz you get two sighter shots, a rough guess to get you on paper will do as you can then correct the error in the guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amazed Posted July 24, 2014 Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 The app aint a lot of good if you put the wrong speed in from a wild guess (put trash in get trash out) - my point made on getting the initial dope (sorry that's might be known as drop and drift numbers in long hand)! You will know when the extra powder aint burned because you put more in and fail to gain more speed out . Cant agree on setting up a rifle at 100 and measuring what it does at 200 - the .222 should even with a 3000 fps load go out at the very least another 30 yards or quite likely 50-60 keeping on a rabbits head and giving less drop at 200 (cant be a bad thing can it?) Over and out, answers given. Target shooting is nothing to do with this and is a bit sissy in direct comparison really coz you get two sighter shots, a rough guess to get you on paper will do as you can then correct the error in the guess. Not totally correct that Kent, wind is seldom a constant so it's all a guess one way or another the app is just a guide. You can get a ball park fps figure using dougys method as not every one can afford a chronograph especially when starting out. As I have said before it's becoming too complicated the initial question was about 222 loads not higher level trigonometry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimlet Posted July 24, 2014 Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 Fingers crossed,variation should be through fairly soon and want to start reloading as soon as I can. Looking for a load that will be fast , flat and accurate, primarily for shooting rabbit, but also better able to handle a stiff breeze. Also wondering whether it's worth using 2 loads for differing conditions or just sticking with the 1. Regretting not going for a .204,so thinking whether it's possible to get close,ballistically,to that calibre. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. The rifle is a Tikka 595 with 21 1/2 inch barrel. Thanks I can't get my triple to shoot really tight with either 40 or 50 grain bullets when pushed faster than about 3300 fps. Its sweet spot is between 3220 and 3300 with 40 grain Noslers and 3000 to 3150 with 50's . I've tried all sorts of loads. I could safely push 50 grain bullets at 3600 + but they weren't accurate. I'm no authority on the .222, I only had mine a couple of years, and I'm definitely not an authority on loading in general - someone else does mine - so don't shout me down people if you think I'm talking balls, but from what I've seen of it the .222 is perhaps not the cartridge for speed merchants. I tried to get a 3500 fps 50 grain round that would do me everything from rabbits to muntjac as flat as possible. I could certainly get the speed, but not the precision. So I've concluded if I want a one size fits all point and shoot round with that performance I'd be better off with a .22-250 or a .204 if it wasn't for the deer. Could be my rifle, of course, but feed it it's preferred velocities and it is clinical. Thumbnail groups at 200 yards time after time. And that means guaranteed rabbits to 300 yards, head shots at 200, and foxes floored at 300. For a cheap(ish) to run, easily moderated, lightly recoiling vermin rifle, that ain't bad at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted July 24, 2014 Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 well I saw some of my unburned powder after I pulled the trigger yesterday ..... it was in the form of a flash.... well so it was burned yes, but wasted burn probably. not really wasted matey. Some types of powder flash when they get to meet fresh oxygen at the muzzle. It is not a true reflection of ineficiency! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted July 24, 2014 Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 I can't get my triple to shoot really tight with either 40 or 50 grain bullets when pushed faster than about 3300 fps. Its sweet spot is between 3220 and 3300 with 40 grain Noslers and 3000 to 3150 with 50's . I've tried all sorts of loads. I could safely push 50 grain bullets at 3600 + but they weren't accurate. I'm no authority on the .222, I only had mine a couple of years, and I'm definitely not an authority on loading in general - someone else does mine - so don't shout me down people if you think I'm talking balls, but from what I've seen of it the .222 is perhaps not the cartridge for speed merchants. I tried to get a 3500 fps 50 grain round that would do me everything from rabbits to muntjac as flat as possible. I could certainly get the speed, but not the precision. So I've concluded if I want a one size fits all point and shoot round with that performance I'd be better off with a .22-250 or a .204 if it wasn't for the deer. Could be my rifle, of course, but feed it it's preferred velocities and it is clinical. Thumbnail groups at 200 yards time after time. And that means guaranteed rabbits to 300 yards, head shots at 200, and foxes floored at 300. For a cheap(ish) to run, easily moderated, lightly recoiling vermin rifle, that ain't bad at all. while I sympathize for you the speed alone is not the problem sir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the enigma Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 Its getting like an American prep school calling everyone Sir. Either that,or they all hail from Dungiven,sir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 Not totally correct that Kent, wind is seldom a constant so it's all a guess one way or another the app is just a guide. You can get a ball park fps figure using dougys method as not every one can afford a chronograph especially when starting out. As I have said before it's becoming too complicated the initial question was about 222 loads not higher level trigonometry. Actually i am very aware of wind not being a constant, but if you start off with guesses on your data your going no were. There is nothing complicated about starting out with real facts then using SWAG methods, its when you mix SWAG with SWAG you get pure dumb luck or bad shooting as errors compound. The OP was thinking he made a bad choice not going .20 ruger, it certainly makes no odds what he uses if he starts with incorrect data. I am sorry but i cannot assume all members are dumb as cheese, there are quite a few with so much more about them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.