Tollerman Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 For some game shooters their excursions ,half a dozen times a season, are just part of the social calendar like Ascot or Henley.The great majority of game shooters are now syndicates or DIY shoot members.They put hundreds of man hours in to run and maintain their shoots and care passionately about the sport . The only problem about paying for pigeon shooting is that farmer A finds out that farmer B is receiving a " nice little earner" for what previously was " free shooting" and you turn up to find that you have lost your permission.However the world changes and everything seems to have a price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDog Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 (edited) I have taken a great many people out pigeon shooting, possibly twenty of whom were PW members and I have never charged a penny and never would. The pressure of finding enough pigeons to shoot when the day is free is quite enough to deal with without money changing hands. I would gladly pay £100 or more for a good day with decent company if my circumstances were different, and by that I mean if I didn't have plenty of land to shoot over of my own as I enjoy the sport so much. Edited August 6, 2014 by JDog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildfowler Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 (edited) I never have and likely never will pay for pigeon shooting, because I don't NEED to... Similarly I will never pay for home maintenance, engineering skills, a mechanic, etc, etc, because I have these things already. I DO pay many hundreds of pounds for my wildfowling every year, whereas if I lived in or traveled to Scotland I wouldn't have to pay a penny... I have paid plenty of money and put plenty of time into syndicate shoots, BECAUSE I don't have free access otherwise. I never have and never would charge a friend for pigeon shooting... So, Whilst this is a digression from the OP; Out of interest, how many people (and I know there are a few) have taken COMPLETE strangers out for free, WITHOUT the prospect of the favour being returned (as this would tantamount to a financial transaction)? And if you have, why did you do it, how many people have you done it for and how many occasions did you take each of them? Edited August 6, 2014 by Wildfowler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRNDL Posted August 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 (edited) I can kick this one off. Having only had permission for nearly a year I offered one free walking gun on PW for a driven beaters day pheasant shoot. I have taken, possibly 7/8 free guns out from Lancashire Field Sports for Foxing numerous times, roost shooting more times than I care to remember, rabbit shooting crow shooting and more recently pigeon shooting. I expect nothing in return as some I know have no permission at all. Last week I took 2 people out on the pigeons, we ended up with 94 birds on one session and 28 on the other. I did this, and do this because I know how difficult it is for people to find permission for themselves. Joe and I actually set the Facebook group up to encourage others with plenty to offer free days out...and the response has been overwhelming. There is at least 1 free session going in a week from over 1000 members. We do encourage Matt Cole to offer pigeon shooting days as this is good value for money and it gets the group out every 1/4. We have had people offer free duck flighting, rough pheasant shooting, free goose shooting...the list is endless. The most one charges for is an equal split for the fuel bill. Edited August 6, 2014 by BRNDL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildfowler Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 I can kick this one off. Having only had permission for nearly a year I offered one free walking gun on PW for a driven beaters day pheasant shoot. I have taken, possibly 7/8 free guns out from Lancashire Field Sports for Foxing numerous times, roost shooting more times than I care to remember, rabbit shooting crow shooting and more recently pigeon shooting. I expect nothing in return as some I know have no permission at all. Last week I took 2 people out on the pigeons, we ended up with 94 birds on one session and 28 on the other. I did this, and do this because I know how difficult it is for people to find permission for themselves. Joe and I actually set the Facebook group up to encourage others with plenty to offer free days out...and the response has been overwhelming. There is at least 1 free session going in a week from over 1000 members. We do encourage Matt Cole to offer pigeon shooting days as this is good value for money and it gets the group out every 1/4. We have had people offer free duck flighting, rough pheasant shooting, free goose shooting...the list is endless. The most one charges for is an equal split for the fuel bill. It sounds like you do some commendable work! How many people have you taken out multiple times, without any reward whatsoever? (That's is a genuine question out of interest, not a barbed one...) Sorry, I'm not sure I caught what the group of 1000 people is. Is it that members of the group that have shooting put up free sporting opportunities for the less fortunate members of the group to make the most of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 I wouldn't charge anyone for a days shooting simply because I couldn't be bothered with all the hassle; one mans idea of a good day isn't necessarily anothers, and all have different expectations of what constitutes value for money. I don't need to pay for shooting as I've enough on my plate, and often take out others in the vicinity for the odd day or two who perhaps don't have the same amount of land available to him that we do, (very often youngsters just starting out) and a lot are invited for the odd day on our rough shoot, ferreting or whatever, and the invite is often returned, and even if it isn't it's no biggy; they'll still get an invite now and then. I wouldn't object to paying for a day out however, if I felt the need, nor resent those who sell days out, (we still intend to have a lads day out on the .50 cal's sometime, and will happily pay for the experience) but I can't agree that paid stalks, huge corporate days or big commercial shoots are harming us, on the contrary, but that's for another thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRNDL Posted August 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 Wildfowler, It is a facebook group called Lancashire Field Sports. We have been going nearly a year now and have around 1200 people on the page. Out of the 1200 people there is at least one free outing per week for others to take/apply for or PM for. Honestly, I cant remember how many times I have taken certain guns out but usually, if I enjoy there company they always get a fair shout when space is available. I suppose I don't really like my own company... Working in sales I like to meet new people and interact. I have a very diverse personality! I have been offered crow shooting from a member I have taken out on the pigeons and Crow, but at the time is was a no reward offer. I once used 50 cartridges from a gun I invited out as I ran out... It had crossed my mind offering money for shooting rights/permission and running a syndicate... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 Harnser, I hear what your saying, your a jolly nice fellow who takes people for free... But I do have a number of issues with your post, and we could argue this all day long from a number of different angles, but my time is too precious... And this is the primary point! You are retired and therefore you have lots of free time, thus making you attribute a lower value to it than someone with extremely limited free time, such as myself. If I have an hour of time, what do I spend it doing? Do I play with my kids, do I go shooting, do I work to earn some money... The list is endless... What value do I attribute to spending time with my family or going shooting, compared to you? Obviously I put a higher value on those things as I am able to spend less of my total time doing them, therefore to justify me not doing those other things I need to be compensated satisfactorily. This is the basic principal of work - compensation for time spent. Which brings me on to your next fallacy: "paid pigeon shooting does nothing for the sport" We are not all blessed with living in the countryside, hence there being such things as towns and cities. How do people that live in such areas access pigeon shooting? Because I can guarantee you if a random person that lives miles from the farm they are asking permission to shoot, just turns up and asks to have a go, the land owner will tell them to jog on, it's hard enough even for locals. Do you advertise your generosity of free days guided pigeon shooting, so the masses can come and have a go? I guess not?! So to say paid days do nothing for the sport is utter carp. It brings money into the countryside (all of ours is reinvested directly into shooting!) gives exposure to the sport and even gives less privileged people (in terms of geography) the opportunity to experience it. Which brings us on to your final ridiculous statement, that most game shooters do not care about the countryside. I am the first to acknowledge that some don't, but you will get this situation in every walk of life! If you actually participated you would know that many are farmers (the actual owners and guardians of said countryside), a huge proportion of game shooters do fantastic work maintaining habitats that don't only benefit game birds but song birds alike, and unfortunately, like myself, most other people put a value on their time and their resources so this work doesn't get done for free... So by your logic, a wildfowler who pays for a days shooting similarly does not care for the habitat in which he shoots?!? Because in my experience it is either to shoot quarry not available in their home area, to learn from a guide and to get under some birds, or simply to experience a different area. I too take people out for free, I've taken numerous guests both pigeon shooting and wildfowling. Am I going to spend that time doing the same service for a complete stranger for free... Unashamedly, NO! If we are carrying out the reconnaissance, and providing all of the services outlined previously, and are consistently putting guns under good numbers of birds, spending time teaching them, setting their gear up, giving them pointers, etc etc and people value that, I fail to see your issue. So, please can you show me your advert for unlimited free pigeon shooting, because I quite fancy a go! My dear friend , I do not advertise free pigeon shooting . I just take out people who I think would like a days pigeon shooting and I actually enjoy taking novices out to show them the ropes . Most of the people that I take out are members of this forum . The last person that I took out was an ex paratrooper who had served his country for 22 years in some of the worlds worst trouble spots . It was his first time out pigeon shooting and he was thrilled at being able to have a go . He works overseas and will be coming out again with me when he gets back on his next leave . Incidentally I have two members of this forum who help me out throughout the year on the rape . They can shoot when they like on the growing rape and on the stubbles and it is free it dosent cost them a penny . If you would like a free days pigeon shooting in Norfolk then send me a message and we will sort something out Harnser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRNDL Posted August 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 My dear friend , I do not advertise free pigeon shooting . I just take out people who I think would like a days pigeon shooting and I actually enjoy taking novices out to show them the ropes . Most of the people that I take out are members of this forum . The last person that I took out was an ex paratrooper who had served his country for 22 years in some of the worlds worst trouble spots . It was his first time out pigeon shooting and he was thrilled at being able to have a go . He works overseas and will be coming out again with me when he gets back on his next leave . Incidentally I have two members of this forum who help me out throughout the year on the rape . They can shoot when they like on the growing rape and on the stubbles and it is free it dosent cost them a penny . If you would like a free days pigeon shooting in Norfolk then send me a message and we will sort something out Harnser If there was a "like" button I would "like" this post! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dashman1 Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 Me to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mentalmac Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 My dear friend , I do not advertise free pigeon shooting . I just take out people who I think would like a days pigeon shooting and I actually enjoy taking novices out to show them the ropes . Most of the people that I take out are members of this forum . The last person that I took out was an ex paratrooper who had served his country for 22 years in some of the worlds worst trouble spots . It was his first time out pigeon shooting and he was thrilled at being able to have a go . He works overseas and will be coming out again with me when he gets back on his next leave . Incidentally I have two members of this forum who help me out throughout the year on the rape . They can shoot when they like on the growing rape and on the stubbles and it is free it dosent cost them a penny . If you would like a free days pigeon shooting in Norfolk then send me a message and we will sort something out Harnser Lovely thing you do there! Norwich is one of my favourite cities incidentally, its same distance from mine to London or Norwich but on a choice of city day out Norwich wins each time :-). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildfowler Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 My dear friend , I do not advertise free pigeon shooting . I just take out people who I think would like a days pigeon shooting and I actually enjoy taking novices out to show them the ropes . Most of the people that I take out are members of this forum . The last person that I took out was an ex paratrooper who had served his country for 22 years in some of the worlds worst trouble spots . It was his first time out pigeon shooting and he was thrilled at being able to have a go . He works overseas and will be coming out again with me when he gets back on his next leave . Incidentally I have two members of this forum who help me out throughout the year on the rape . They can shoot when they like on the growing rape and on the stubbles and it is free it dosent cost them a penny . If you would like a free days pigeon shooting in Norfolk then send me a message and we will sort something out Harnser Harnser, I think you may have missed the point, or indeed you have confirmed my point entirely.You do not advertise free pigeon shooting, so for you to take somebody out will only happen by a chance encounter... For a lucky few that has been the case, and you have chosen to focus on a person in a particular profession to demonstrate your generosity. I too have taken out people in the services, free of charge and they too have had a great time, but the fact remains, without paid days, the opportunity to enjoy pigeon shooting eludes a vast number of people. We have all seen the people who join the forum and ask for shooting get berated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildfowler Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 In fact... Mr 'mentalmac' can vouch for me, I offered him a foc session out wildfowling last season, and he has an invitation for this coming season too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mentalmac Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 In fact... Mr 'mentalmac' can vouch for me, I offered him a foc session out wildfowling last season, and he has an invitation for this coming season too... Very true - Wildfowler is a decent chap. And pretty damn busy too, (hearing of all the projects as well as a taxing job and kids) - surprised he has time to shoot let alone get others to do it too. I think in reality, people can pick and chose who to take out free on a case by case basis judging on their time devotion etc... I.e on my permission: I haven't a large permission but would take people out for a laugh on it anyhow if I had the time and if they could fit around my schedule then great. If they then had a great time or a **** time I wouldn't feel bad. Perhaps a return visit to theirs, or even just a cheap nasty bottle makes for a nice thanks or even a couple of biscuits! However if I had a really productive permission and many a pigeon and would spend my time and effort getting people there and set up and moving them and pre-shoot reccying and not even shoot myself (probably the most important bit of that), I would charge a fee. Just so I covered my expenses of setting them up for their benefit. Taking someone out on my perm with me for a day which would be our day in the hide I wouldn't charge as I would be enjoying it too and just sharing the experience with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 (edited) Harnser, I think you may have missed the point, or indeed you have confirmed my point entirely. You do not advertise free pigeon shooting, so for you to take somebody out will only happen by a chance encounter... For a lucky few that has been the case, and you have chosen to focus on a person in a particular profession to demonstrate your generosity. I too have taken out people in the services, free of charge and they too have had a great time, but the fact remains, without paid days, the opportunity to enjoy pigeon shooting eludes a vast number of people. We have all seen the people who join the forum and ask for shooting get berated! Any body who I have taken out pigeon shooting was not by a chance encounter . Do you think that I stand by a field of rape hoping that somebody will come along and ask for a days pigeon shooting ? I have not chosen somebody from a particular profession to demonstrate my generosity ,it just happens that he was the last person I took out . The person before him was a bricklayer who had just taken up pigeon shooting . There are many on this forum who do not have any pigeon shooting of their own and I know that there are several members who will take out novices for the day . I shall carry on taking out people free of charge and believe me I have introduced dozens of people to the sport of pigeon shooting over the years and it has not cost any of them a penny . This is my last shout on this topic . I would just like to say again that I believe that all commercial shooting is the nemesis of field sports . Harnser Edited August 6, 2014 by Harnser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 I would just like to say again that I believe that all commercial shooting is the nemesis of field sports . Harnser I believe the opposite is true. I believe commercial shooting is the saviour of field 'sports', and would also add that I know for a fact that at least one of the towns two hotels would close during winter if not for the revenue that commercial shooting brings to my small town, each and every Saturday (and another day midweek) from October through to February. We can't afford to dismiss commercial shooting out of hand simply because some of us disagree with it. If it weren't for the numbers of people participating in and the revenue garnered from commercial shooting, we would be in a much more dire situation than we already are. That's my belief anyhow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 (edited) Hi Just a few thoughts on this Why would I pay ? Over a free day Well there are many reasons If you work time is a premium commodity The guide does the work You can book and arrange time off in advance To shoot a new area Because there are no pigeons on your permission Or you haven't got a permission Just arnt lucky enough to get invited for free People (freinds) assume your a *** because you pheasant shoot and don't ask you If you don't like the guide or the shooting you don't have to go back Free invites inevitably cost or you can feel obligated or embaresed if its a good or bad day Your inexperienced and are prepared to pay a bit to learn and try there equipment before you invest in your own If you like the guide you can just book the next day and the next Free day invite you may get another ? Surprisingly a days pigeon shooting always fetches good money int basc and NGO charity auctions These are just a few reasons that I can see for paying for a days pigeon shooting I think it's great the members that take people under there wing and help them for free but there arnt enough Anyway enough rambling Just a few reasons as to why anyone would pay To protect crops All the best Of Edit bit of a postin glitch Edited August 6, 2014 by Old farrier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 Some good points there Old Farrier. Does you PC have a long narrow screen by any chance? Only jesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 Some good points there Old Farrier. Does you PC have a long narrow screen by any chance? Only jesting.Do it all on iPhone 😊Sorry All the best Of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 Do it all on iPhone Sorry All the best Of Ah, with you. Your spelling is much better than mine when I'm posting on my phone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingo15 Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 Ah, with you. Your spelling is much better than mine when I'm posting on my phone. Yeah but he started that post yesterday ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildfowler Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 Any body who I have taken out pigeon shooting was not by a chance encounter . Do you think that I stand by a field of rape hoping that somebody will come along and ask for a days pigeon shooting ? I have not chosen somebody from a particular profession to demonstrate my generosity ,it just happens that he was the last person I took out . The person before him was a bricklayer who had just taken up pigeon shooting . There are many on this forum who do not have any pigeon shooting of their own and I know that there are several members who will take out novices for the day . I shall carry on taking out people free of charge and believe me I have introduced dozens of people to the sport of pigeon shooting over the years and it has not cost any of them a penny . This is my last shout on this topic . I would just like to say again that I believe that all commercial shooting is the nemesis of field sports . Harnser And once again, further confirming my points, yet failing to acknowledge it. No I don't think you stand next to a field of rape... And by your own admission you do not advertise, so if they are not friends, how else do you meet your prospective guests other than chance encounter? I think it's a shame you don't wish to comment further, as you were particularly vociferous early on, and so far you have still failed to give any rationale for your view that any form of commercial shooting is the nemesis of field sports... Yeah but he started that post yesterday ;-) all of this had been done on my phone, hence the awful spelling and multiple edits! I love autocorrect! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 Yeah but he started that post yesterday ;-) Sorry not that fast started it Sunday hope your keeping well 😀😀😀 All the best Of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingo15 Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 Yeah im all good sir. Working hard just to save up for a days pigeon shooting ;-) Hope you ok? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeonblasterian Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 I take some folks out for free.I offer it on here for free on sporting opportunities for free.I have never charged anyone or asked for anything.People who charge folks for pigeon shooting are just out to make themselves some money. I do it because i like taking people out who have no permissions and are not able to get out on a regular basis. There are also people who have been with me before who come fairly regularly when i offer. If some people are willing to pay to go pigeon shooting then so be it. Me personally i would not pay but i have enough permission and so do not have to pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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