SCOTLAND

[Gordon R]

crowdie2013 - that is about the worst post on the thread - rivalled only by your previous one.

 

Any stance against the Government of the day is done at a General Election.

 

Other posters should refrain from shouting. It detracts from any content.

Edited September 10, 2014 by Gordon R

[Munzy]

No Im not kidding.

300 years of Westminster rule/atrocities/illegal wars/poll tax/bedroom tax etc etc. We have a chance to shape our own future and hopefully can do so given a chance. Its not a slur on English-its a stance against the out of touch government that rules these isles with nothing short of contempt. I truly hope that on the back of this, your parliament sorts itself out starts maybe trying to improve things in your country as for 300 years it certainly hasn't managed to do it with the united kingdom.

 

Wow! I've read some utter rubbish on this forum but this stands out for me as being the most ignorant.

[STOTTO]

No Im not kidding.

300 years of Westminster rule/atrocities/illegal wars/poll tax/bedroom tax etc etc. We have a chance to shape our own future and hopefully can do so given a chance. Its not a slur on English-its a stance against the out of touch government that rules these isles with nothing short of contempt. I truly hope that on the back of this, your parliament sorts itself out starts maybe trying to improve things in your country as for 300 years it certainly hasn't managed to do it with the united kingdom.

 

 

In the end after all of the shouting, pouting. debating and berating in the final analysis it will all be down to that ‘Canny Scot’ and him alone, you can bet a pound to a pinch of heather that he lives up to the title!

 

Regards

[grrclark]

Problem is you cant survive on pride alone as you realise, BP have publicly just debunked the big fib that there are 20 odd billion barrels of oil left in the Scottish sector of the north sea and have openly said that in 15 years time Scotland will be financially wrecked as the oil revenue dries up, other big business are planning to uproot and move, seems the need for a Scottish passport over a UK / English passport is a better driver than reason?oh and we aren't all numpties and we are starting to get a little fed up of this wave of anti English hysteria to the point that those like me who really did think this issue was for the Scots and the Scots alone are now sat with fingers crossed that the vote goes to the favour of the yes men.

 

 

 

KW

 

KW you are no stranger to courting controversy on PW and it could perhaps be argued that a couple of your posts on this thread earlier were perhaps laced with a touch of mischief, but I confess that the sentiment you express in the quoted post above, as a few other posters have too, is something that i can completely understand and sympathise with.

 

The level of anti UK, or read anti English, rhetoric coming from a very sizeable percentage of the Scottish people actually sickens me, I find it alarming and utterly distasteful.

 

As for the part of your post related to listening to expert opinion, considering evidence or even listening to reasoned opinions is completely lost on the vast majority of the Yes side, it is dismissed as nothing other than scaremongering, fear peddling or blatant colonialism.

 

There are of course many people on the Yes side who have taken a much more reasonable approach and are choosing to vote Yes because of their conviction in their ideology or decision and I respect those people, I disagree with them, but respect them for making a decision that is right for them. There are also others who genuinely do believe that they are voting for a brighter economic future having been seduced by the promises of politicians and we have all fallen guilty of that at some point in time, I can also accept that.

 

What galls me so much is the fervent nationalists who seem to have developed some sort of collective persona of the downtrodden and persecuted, laying the blame for everything square at the feet of imperialistic England or the UK. It matters not a jot that these downtrodden masses enjoy the same trappings of wealth and prosperity, or otherwise, as the vast majority of the rest of the people of the UK do. Sadly it is those voices that are being so loudly heard in the rest of the UK just now and no wonder that the rest of the UK is taking the hump, I cannot for the life of me understand why people think that jingoism is a noble trait.

 

The PW collective do love to get outraged and emotional about lots of things, (cats, BASC, auto safety or not, dog muzzles or not, etc) but it is normally transitory and short lived until the next controversial thread comes along, but in respect to the vandalism being wrought upon the society of my country right now by the narrow minded, insular and overtly nationalistic it is difficult to actually express how angry and emotional it makes me, and many other Scots, feel.

 

I said earlier in this thread that it reeks of fascism and it does, one of the main threads of the yes campaign has been to promote kicking tories out of Scotland forever, this is really saying we want to rid anybody who dares to follow a different thought process or ideology from our society. I can't think of a more apt description for fascism.

 

There are even stickers and posters available from the Yes campaigns that say "Vote Yes, get rid of Tories". More than 400,000 people in Scotland voted Tory at the last general election, but to the yes campaign they are legitimate collateral damage. If the nationalists can do this to Scottish born and bred people, why on earth would they consider the opinions of the English, Welsh or Irish?

 

It is nothing short of shameful.

Edited September 10, 2014 by grrclark

[Munzy]

 

KW you are no stranger to courting controversy on PW and it could perhaps be argued that a couple of your posts on this thread earlier were perhaps laced with a touch of mischief, but I confess that the sentiment you express in the quoted post above, as a few other posters have too, is something that i can completely understand and sympathise with.

 

The level of anti UK, or read anti English, rhetoric coming from a very sizeable percentage of the Scottish people actually sickens me, I find it alarming and utterly distasteful.

 

As for the part of your post related to listening to expert opinion, considering evidence or even listening to reasoned opinions is completely lost on the vast majority of the Yes side, it is dismissed as nothing other than scaremongering, fear peddling or blatant colonialism.

 

There are of course many people on the Yes side who have taken a much more reasonable approach and are choosing to vote Yes because of their conviction in their ideology or decision and I respect those people, I disagree with them, but respect them for making a decision that is right for them. There are also others who genuinely do believe that they are voting for a brighter economic future having been seduced by the promises of politicians and we have all fallen guilty of that at some point in time, I can also accept that.

 

What galls me so much is the fervent nationalists who seem to have developed some sort of collective persona of the downtrodden and persecuted, laying the blame for everything square at the feet of imperialistic England or the UK. It matters not a jot that these downtrodden masses enjoy the same trappings of wealth and prosperity, or otherwise, as the vast majority of the rest of the people of the UK do. Sadly it is those voices that are being so loudly heard in the rest of the UK just now and no wonder that the rest of the UK is taking the hump, I cannot for the life of me understand why people think that jingoism is a noble trait.

 

The PW collective do love to get outraged and emotional about lots of things, (cats, BASC, auto safety or not, dog muzzles or not, etc) but it is normally transitory and short lived until the next controversial thread comes along, but in respect to the vandalism being wrought the society upon my country right now by the narrow minded, insular and overtly nationalistic it is difficult to actually express how angry and emotional it makes me, and many other Scot's, feel.

 

I said earlier in this thread that it reeks of fascism and it does, one of the main threads of the yes campaign has been to promote kicking tories out of Scotland forever, this is really saying we want to rid anybody who dares to follow a different thought process or ideology from our society. I can't think of a more apt description for fascism.

 

There is even stickers and posters available from the Yes campaigns that say "Vote Yes, get rid of Tories". More than 400,000 people in Scotland voted Tory at the last general election, but to the yes campaign they are legitimate collateral damage. If the nationalists can do this to Scottish born and bred people, why on earth would they consider the opinions of the English, Welsh or Irish?

 

It is nothing short of shameful.

Good post and you have my sympathies Sir!

[MartynGT4]

No Im not kidding.

300 years of Westminster rule/atrocities/illegal wars/poll tax/bedroom tax etc etc. We have a chance to shape our own future and hopefully can do so given a chance. Its not a slur on English-its a stance against the out of touch government that rules these isles with nothing short of contempt. I truly hope that on the back of this, your parliament sorts itself out starts maybe trying to improve things in your country as for 300 years it certainly hasn't managed to do it with the united kingdom.

 

 

Good grief, what an angry man... :lol:

[Harnser]

I am just about fed up with the whole referendum thing . Fed up with bickering politicians from both sides of the border . I would want the good people of Scotland to stay in the union . It's about time we left them alone to make their own decision on the future of Scotland . I have to say just one thing ,and that is I wouldn't trust that Salmond as far as I could throw him .

 

Harnser

[Flashman]

No Im not kidding.

300 years of Westminster rule/atrocities/illegal wars/poll tax/bedroom tax etc etc. We have a chance to shape our own future and hopefully can do so given a chance. Its not a slur on English-its a stance against the out of touch government that rules these isles with nothing short of contempt. I truly hope that on the back of this, your parliament sorts itself out starts maybe trying to improve things in your country as for 300 years it certainly hasn't managed to do it with the united kingdom.

 

 

The trouble is that last time you "shaped your own future," you bought some magic beans in Central America and had to be bailed out.

 

Are you interested in buying London Bridge this time? Or a pot of tartan paint?

[MartynGT4]

 

The trouble is that last time you "shaped your own future," you bought some magic beans in Central America and had to be bailed out.

 

Are you interested in buying London Bridge this time? Or a pot of tartan paint?

 

Ouch

[kdubya]

are you reading the post I made ? I AM SAYING NO , on the previous stupidity of the history against fieldsports in Scotland ,no one wants to rattle your cage I am mearly trying to rally SCOTTISH FIELDSPORTS to realise the danger of allowing an ANTI FIELDSPORTS GOVERMENT IN SCOTLAND WITH MORE POWERS .Now you stick your oar in with oil and passports ,being a stupid Scotsmanexplain WHAT the He## IS THAT TO DO WITH FIELDSPORTS .then you wonder why -ve opinion from the south offends ,LOOK before you accuse I am SCOTTISH BUT ALSO BRITISH JUST THE SAME AS I DONT QUESTION YOUR ENTITLEMENT TO BE ENGLISH AND BRITISH

I did read your post and I responded to it, I had realised you were in the no camp which is why I used the term "as you realise" I then went on to say that its pride an a sense of nationalism only that is blindly driving the yes camp , my post going on to give some financial facts rather than the spin and lies that the yes camp seem only interested in, as for the stance they are against shooting, sadly that will sway about the same % to say no as would a ban on selling fried mars bars, I have as said before lived in Scotland for a number of years my second daughter was born in Scotland (more than can be said for many about to vote) I have many friends in Scotland, but this rancid affair has and always will now soured my view, in that I always considered that the English V Scottish thing it was a bit of fun and only truly irritated an irrational few, this referendum has me now of the opinion that its not just the few, and that a country is ready to crucify itself in a blind rush to get one over those south of the border, an aim I now fervently hope is achieved.

 

 

KW

[MartynGT4]

I am just about fed up with the whole referendum thing . Fed up with bickering politicians from both sides of the border . I would want the good people of Scotland to stay in the union . It's about time we left them alone to make their own decision on the future of Scotland . I have to say just one thing ,and that is I wouldn't trust that Salmond as far as I could throw him .

 

Harnser

 

Seems to be quite a few Scots prepared to follow his march though, which is sad because I just don't think he has a credible plan, it's all "lets shape our own future" but doesn't appear to know how he would do it. Too many decisions being made with hearts and not enough being made with brains if you ask me.

[mick miller]

Are we still going back and forth with this 18 pages later?

 

Wow.

[MartynGT4]

Are we still going back and forth with this 18 pages later?

 

Wow.

 

It's an interesting debate about one of the biggest changes the UK has seen in a very long time so I'd expect it to go on a lot longer yet, assuming the tone can calm down a bit before it get's closed.

[crowdie2013]

_{You southerners certainly are a touchy bunch.}

_{Good luck with everything going forward..................}

[MartynGT4]

_{You southerners certainly are a touchy bunch.}

_{Good luck with everything going forward..................}

 

All the best

[Katzenjammer]

I think this has to be a racist post, I must remember you for the future and stay well clear .

Not really. The main racial types are Caucasoid, mongoloid and negroid. Putting aside any English or Scots people who fall under the latter racial groupings and concentrating on the historic antipathy that formed between the two nations, then those antipathies grew between peoples of the same racial stock i.e. Caucasoid. Therefore it is not racist

 

It is anti nation or anti ethnic however.

Sorry for being pedantic :-)

[Laird Lugton]

No Im not kidding.

300 years of Westminster rule/atrocities/illegal wars/poll tax/bedroom tax etc etc. We have a chance to shape our own future and hopefully can do so given a chance. Its not a slur on English-its a stance against the out of touch government that rules these isles with nothing short of contempt. I truly hope that on the back of this, your parliament sorts itself out starts maybe trying to improve things in your country as for 300 years it certainly hasn't managed to do it with the united kingdom.

 

 

Really Crowdie? 300 years of mismanagement? I think you need to dig out a history book.

 

Things may have gone a miss over the last 40 years but if the marriage is broken you work to fix it rather than leaving.

[four-wheel-drive]

It will be worth loosing them if it means that we never have to look at that Alex Salmond again got he gets up my nose just thinking about him.

[poontang]

Cameron, Clegg and Milliband trying to drum up support for the 'Naw' vote today must surely have pushed thousands more into the 'Aye' camp?

 

I felt a bit nauseous watching them on the news.

[crowdie2013]

Laird Lugton; no I suggest you dig out your own history books. The Scots, Irish & Welsh have been used as cannon fodder in all wars since the union was formed. We have been treated as 2nd class citizens throughout this period and trialled with things such as the poll tax. Id suggest by westminsters, frankly, desperate attempt in coming to Scotland today that many of the undecided will be swayed towards YES as yet again this referendum was treated by Westminster as a cake walk and Scotland would bottle it. Every time one of the Westminster idiots come to Scotland, the YES campaign gains voters.

This is not an anti England vote but a vote that has allowed the people of Scotland to discuss/debate the reasons for their choice come the 18th. What ever election has ever had as many normal folk discussing politics? Guess that's only a good thing.

Which ever way the result gos we will all have to move on; but the benefit of being in the union come a NO vote is not worth thinking about.

ATB

 

Wow! I've read some utter rubbish on this forum but this stands out for me as being the most ignorant.

 

 

crowdie2013 - that is about the worst post on the thread - rivalled only by your previous one.

Any stance against the Government of the day is done at a General Election.

Other posters should refrain from shouting. It detracts from any content.

 

 

 

Really Crowdie? 300 years of mismanagement? I think you need to dig out a history book.

 

Things may have gone a miss over the last 40 years but if the marriage is broken you work to fix it rather than leaving.

[srspower]

It wouldn't be so bad if Salmond wasn't such a lying piece of work even worse than the toffs in Westminster. Every single thing he promises is beyond his control ie: Europe, the pound, the BBC, reaction of markets etc. He should be more honest and say:-

 

'we are going to have a really bad time for the next 20 years or so becuase of this but I think it will be worth it in the end'

 

But he just tells continuous lies instead. Basically the ramifications are that Scotland will not be able to borrow money for a very long time indeed and the Scottish people are going to experience austerity like nobody in Britain has ever experienced before. It will make Thatchers time seem like a walk in the park in comparison.

 

Then of course there is the airgun licensing issue, a good example of his incompetence.

 

Edited September 10, 2014 by srspower

[grrclark]

Crowdie, that is just baseless rhetoric and misplaced sentiment. People of all the 4 nations have suffered in all wars, it is not a unique experience for Scotland, Wales or NI, the good folks of England have not been magically exempted because of some higher privilege.

 

During every war at any point in history people will have thought it immoral, there will always be a conflict of opinion, don't you think that lots of people in England feel the same way? Do you think it is only some sort of Scottish privilege to feel strongly about that sort of thing?

 

Regions of England have been trialled with other government policies in the last few years, most notably the disability living allowance. It is not unique to Scotland, it happens all the time.

 

What things do you believe that the people of England have access to that you don't, what makes you feel so hard done by compared to them?

Edited September 10, 2014 by grrclark

[crowdie2013]

quote from DC himself

“Supporters of independence will always be able to cite examples of small, independent and thriving economies across Europe such as Finland, Switzerland and Norway. It would be wrong to suggest that Scotland could not be another such successful, independent country” ~ David Cameron

Being independent will mean the people who care most about Scotland – the people who live in Scotland – will be taking the decisions about our future. The people of Scotland have the greatest stake in making our nation a success. That means we are more likely to make the right choices for our society and our economy - and to make decisions that mean our huge wealth delivers far greater benefits for the people living here.

[grrclark]

Again rhetoric and absolutely no substance Crowdie.

 

Tell you what, just focussing on the last part of the last sentence of the quote that you just cut and pasted or regurgitated from somewhere else, why don't you post something from the SNP or Yes campaign that states exactly what policies they plan to put in place that will deliver "far greater benefits for the people living here"

 

Quantify that statement.

[rover]

 

quote from DC himself

“Supporters of independence will always be able to cite examples of small, independent and thriving economies across Europe such as Finland, Switzerland and Norway. It would be wrong to suggest that Scotland could not be another such successful, independent country” ~ David Cameron

Being independent will mean the people who care most about Scotland – the people who live in Scotland – will be taking the decisions about our future. The people of Scotland have the greatest stake in making our nation a success. That means we are more likely to make the right choices for our society and our economy - and to make decisions that mean our huge wealth delivers far greater benefits for the people living here.

 

I utterly agree and hope that if it is a 'yes' vote then all will go well for you and that you prove the 'no' camp to be wrong. I do think, however, to suggest in an earlier post that the English have suffered less than anyone else in previous conflicts is hugely hurtful, ignorant and plainly wrong. Make this about the love of your country, not the hate of mine.