Outdoorsman Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 Got an application form last night 27pages half of it not needed but hey ho, basically i want to know do you still need to get 2 photos countersigned as theres no mention of that and is it worth doing the "voluntary" GP letter to save all the hassel ive heard other people have had for renewels, also where it says type in the guns bit is that bolt action etc or somthing completly diffrent any help much appriciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outdoorsman Posted October 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 And if any one has put an application in recently in the durham area any idea how long it will take, it took over 9months to get my SGC just over a year ago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kernel gadaffi Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 With them moving offices recently, there may be a delay, but they will get onto it as soon as they can. Alan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 with the new forms now, the refs dont have to sign any thing, you dont have to send a GP letter, but thats up to you.you have to sign one photo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outdoorsman Posted October 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 Yea i could not understand the whole point of endorsing your own photo seems a tad counter productive to me but there you go chears for the replys lads any more info greatly appreciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaedra1106 Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 No, you don't have to submit the medical forms, in fact BASC advise you not to do so. Use the correct Home Office form 201/201a, the latest and correct version is always available from the BASC web site, Durhams have all sorts of added stuff that isn't required. http://basc.org.uk/firearms/how-to-apply-for-a-certificate/ It coud take anywhere from a few months to a year they are hopelessly inefficient, badly trained and organised. In the last 2 months alone I've had to have several phone calls with them over various mistakes, arguing about giving me a slot for a rifle which is H.O. approved and has already been issued by several other licensing departments (trigger release VZ58) they eventually sent my FAC back but missed off a sec.1 shotgun (they put it on my SGC). Got the replacement FAC about a week later then another one landed on my door almost 2 weeks after that one!. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 For everyone else's sake, use the standard forms and DONT give an additional GP's letter. First its not required, second it doubles the price and third, even if our shooting organisations dont fight the creeping controls, we should as shooters. After all we have the HO advice to fall back on and thats the national standard. If you are asking for ANY rifles, ask for sound moderator to protect your hearing and expanding ammunition if the rifles' "good reason" is for shooting animals of whatever sort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davyo Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 (edited) Outdoorsman ,Durham are up to all sorts at the moment,there is possibly annual medical checks on the horizon.A mate whose FAC renewal that is not due for 4 yrs & SGC not due for 3 yrs had had to fill in the new medical forms only a couple of weeks ago.When he phoned Durham to ask why when he wasn't up for renewal he got no sensible answers other that"just complete the forms" when my 15 yr old son put in for his FAC/SGC it was a comedy of errors.Officer who visited wasn't aware I held Both FAC/SGC.Got shirty when I asked him for id.His FAC came back with wrong name on it.Good luck is all I can say.BASC allegedly have told another mate in Durham to just comply and don't make waves. Edited October 7, 2014 by Davyo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 Can I ask when our shooting organisations are going to get a pair and start earning our subscriptions. If Davyo is right, either there is a review of Durham's service pending, or we are paying for nothing. I just cannot see how the Police are able to get away with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davyo Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 (edited) To be honest the medical firms dont bother me,the strickter the better.But as was proved in the Atherton case, Durham a inconsistant with their process.They dont follow the guidelines they already have in place let alone create new ones.They even told one buddy that a section 7 didnt exist(they didnt renew hisFAC on time),instead threatend to arrest him for possesion,if his guns weren't put in to an RDF at 2pm on xmas eve.He was told previously before he went away to work,that a section 7 would be sent out. There needs to be a total overhaul of the process becouse its evident the all areas seem to be doing their own thing.I mean whats the point if doing a home vist in week1,when someone would go out and get a safe fitted only to be told mths later that application is turned down.The visit should be the last thing.All record checks,medical reports ect should be done first then the visit,its just a waste of resourses.This is why the system is in the mess its in,too many forces not following ABCEFG,they follow GEFCAB.And if they cant manage it put it out to some organisation that can.If they are doing all this to try and restore public confidence,then god help us.They public would be shocked if we told them all the cock ups we have occured. Edited October 8, 2014 by Davyo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 There needs to be a total overhaul of the process because its evident the all areas seem to be doing their own thing.I mean whats the point if doing a home vis1t in week1,when someone would go out and get a safe fitted only to be told mths later that application is turned down. The visit should be the last thing.All record checks,medical reports ect should be done first then the visit,its just a waste of resources.This is why the system is in the mess its in,too many forces not following ABCEFG,they follow GEFCAB.And if they cant manage it put it out to some organisation that can.If they are doing all this to try and restore public confidence,then god help us.They public would be shocked if we told them all the cock ups we have occured. Fair doos to Cheshire, they have their ducks in order and, whilst stretched, dont seem to have sacrificed quality to a serious extent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outdoorsman Posted October 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2014 Well we have opened a can of worms here all very valid points, can any one answer the question about the box which says "type" on the new form is that bolt action, self loading etc?? Or is it somthing else Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 9, 2014 Report Share Posted October 9, 2014 Well we have opened a can of worms here all very valid points, can any one answer the question about the box which says "type" on the new form is that bolt action, self loading etc?? Or is it somthing else I haven't filed an application since the new forms came into being, but I can't think of anything else 'type' can mean except the mechanism, such as 'bolt action' etc. If you pay for a GP's report you will in effect be more than doubling the price of your licence fee, and this is before the proposed increase in prices comes in. Your shooting organisation should advise that you need not comply, but that advice will depend on how supportive your shooting organisation is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaedra1106 Posted October 9, 2014 Report Share Posted October 9, 2014 (edited) The correct entry for "type" would be rifle, pistol, LBP, shotgun (if sec.1 multi shot) etc. BUT Durham of course insist you list the action type as well so "rifle - bolt action" or "rifle - Under Lever" etc. Move a few miles north or south into another force area and that doesn't happen as It's not required under H.O. guidance or firearms law but Durham being Durham will not let you do that. I only have one slot on my FAC that only says "rifle" and that was after several weeks of pushing by another PW member as the particular action type isn't on the NFLMS system yet (trigger release MARS action). Edited October 9, 2014 by phaedra1106 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted October 9, 2014 Report Share Posted October 9, 2014 (edited) The correct entry for "type" would be rifle, pistol, LBP, shotgun (if sec.1 multi shot) etc. BUT Durham of course insist you list the action type as well so "rifle - bolt action" or "rifle - Under Lever" etc. Move a few miles north or south into another force area and that doesn't happen as It's not required under H.O. guidance or firearms law but Durham being Durham will not let you do that. I only have one slot on my FAC that only says "rifle" and that was after several weeks of pushing by another PW member as the particular action type isn't on the NFLMS system yet (trigger release MARS action). What would you (talking in general here, not specifically for the action type that you detailed) put down if you were applying for a variation? Edited October 9, 2014 by wymberley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted October 9, 2014 Report Share Posted October 9, 2014 Well we have opened a can of worms here all very valid points, can any one answer the question about the box which says "type" on the new form is that bolt action, self loading etc?? Or is it somthing else For example: Rifle, bolt action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outdoorsman Posted October 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2014 Thanks for the replys people ill fill this sucker in over the weekend and send it in ill keep everyone posted on how it goes, i wont be taking part in the voluntry GP check so ill see what responce i get and inform PW members cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaedra1106 Posted October 10, 2014 Report Share Posted October 10, 2014 (edited) What would you (talking in general here, not specifically for the action type that you detailed) put down if you were applying for a variation? Under Northumberland (as an example) I'd put .30 Rifle, Target shooting then I could get a 303, 308, 30-06, 7.62x49, etc. etc. Under Durham it would have to be exact caliber & chambering and the action type as well so .308Win/7.62x51 Bolt Action Rifle, Target shooting So, under Northumberland I could be looking for say another bolt action rifle but see a lever action 30-06 I'd been after and decide to get that instead, both .30cal so no problem. Under Durham I'd have to apply for a 1 for 1 variation and wait several weeks to get my Fac back again. I had a problem with them over my 300aac Blackout, doesn't exist I was told, not on the NFLMS (strange how at least several hundred have been sold in the UK then), argued with the FLM about it as she wouldn't just put 30cal and eventually she put "300" down as the caliber so I could have gone off and bought something in 300Win Mag or Rem Ultra Mag both a much more powerful cartridge, makes no sense does it?. Edited October 10, 2014 by phaedra1106 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted October 10, 2014 Report Share Posted October 10, 2014 Under Northumberland (as an example) I'd put .30 Rifle, Target shooting then I could get a 303, 308, 30-06, 7.62x49, etc. etc. Under Durham it would have to be exact caliber & chambering and the action type as well so .308Win/7.62x51 Bolt Action Rifle, Target shooting So, under Northumberland I could be looking for say another bolt action rifle but see a lever action 30-06 I'd been after and decide to get that instead, both .30cal so no problem. Under Durham I'd have to apply for a 1 for 1 variation and wait several weeks to get my Fac back again. I had a problem with them over my 300aac Blackout, doesn't exist I was told, not on the NFLMS (strange how at least several hundred have been sold in the UK then), argued with the FLM about it as she wouldn't just put 30cal and eventually she put "300" down as the caliber so I could have gone off and bought something in 300Win Mag or Rem Ultra Mag both a much more powerful cartridge, makes no sense does it?. No, no sense at all. On the old forms the calibre, type and action information was required and was reflected on the FAC. I have no idea if there's been any change to the FAC itself to reflect the new forms. As the new forms - grant, variation and notes - would have been prepared as a package, you'd have thought consistency would have been a given, but no. What you said at Post #14 for 'type' strictly speaking is correct. You'll see why I asked if you have a shufti at the new variation application where the information required is as previously. Advising the OP to put both criteria was simply an attempt to avoid any possibility of any delay in having it granted. Oh, yeah, and to hell with the medical bit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breastman Posted October 10, 2014 Report Share Posted October 10, 2014 (edited) With them moving offices recently, there may be a delay, but they will get onto it as soon as they can. Alan. Good one! Yea i could not understand the whole point of endorsing your own photo seems a tad counter productive to me but there you go chears for the replys lads any more info greatly appreciated You're not 'endorsing' your photograph, you're signing a declaration that its a true likeness of you For everyone else's sake, use the standard forms and DONT give an additional GP's letter. First its not required, second it doubles the price and third, even if our shooting organisations dont fight the creeping controls, we should as shooters. After all we have the HO advice to fall back on and thats the national standard. If you are asking for ANY rifles, ask for sound moderator to protect your hearing and expanding ammunition if the rifles' "good reason" is for shooting animals of whatever sort. To be honest the medical firms dont bother me,the strickter the better.But as was proved in the Atherton case, Durham a inconsistant with their process.They dont follow the guidelines they already have in place let alone create new ones.They even told one buddy that a section 7 didnt exist(they didnt renew hisFAC on time),instead threatend to arrest him for possesion,if his guns weren't put in to an RDF at 2pm on xmas eve.He was told previously before he went away to work,that a section 7 would be sent out. There needs to be a total overhaul of the process becouse its evident the all areas seem to be doing their own thing.I mean whats the point if doing a home vist in week1,when someone would go out and get a safe fitted only to be told mths later that application is turned down.The visit should be the last thing.All record checks,medical reports ect should be done first then the visit,its just a waste of resourses.This is why the system is in the mess its in,too many forces not following ABCEFG,they follow GEFCAB.And if they cant manage it put it out to some organisation that can.If they are doing all this to try and restore public confidence,then god help us.They public would be shocked if we told them all the cock ups we have occured. Be careful what you wish for!!! The Section 7 debarcle was bottomed out at the latest meeting of the Firearms and Explosive Licensing Working Group (FELWG) and the guy in charge DCC Andy Marsh has instructed the area reps for FLD's that they MUST issue S7 permits if the applicants forms were put in, in good time (8 weeks or more) see 3.5, so if you're getting grief from your FEO about this, point them in the direction of these minutes; http://www.acpo.police.uk/documents/crime/2014/FELWG_11%20June%202014_Minutes.pdf Well we have opened a can of worms here all very valid points, can any one answer the question about the box which says "type" on the new form is that bolt action, self loading etc?? Or is it somthing else As Phaedra1106 says 'Type' refers to rifle, long barrel revolver, muzzle loading pistol etc and should be the only information about the gun provided for a grant or varaition. If you look on an FAC in Section 1ii (Firearms which can be acquired) there is no 'Action' column. The column only appears in Section1i (Firearms possessed). You should not have to specify the action BEFORE you acquire the gun. Durham has really dug its heels in about this but i FINALLY managed to get my certificate back without any action types for 3 guns in Section 1ii a couple of weeks ago after a couple of months battle. Hopefully they'll continue this with other peoples FACs from now on. They still insist on you listing a specific cartridge, rather than simple calibre, but i couldn't get any support from BASC on that issue The correct entry for "type" would be rifle, pistol, LBP, shotgun (if sec.1 multi shot) etc. BUT Durham of course insist you list the action type as well so "rifle - bolt action" or "rifle - Under Lever" etc. Move a few miles north or south into another force area and that doesn't happen as It's not required under H.O. guidance or firearms law but Durham being Durham will not let you do that. I only have one slot on my FAC that only says "rifle" and that was after several weeks of pushing by another PW member as the particular action type isn't on the NFLMS system yet (trigger release MARS action). You're welcome I should be picking up my MARS this afternoon Edited October 10, 2014 by Breastman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaedra1106 Posted October 10, 2014 Report Share Posted October 10, 2014 Jammy Which one are you getting first and when can I have a look at it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breastman Posted October 10, 2014 Report Share Posted October 10, 2014 I might shoot with your lot next Sunday as I'm out on the sauce on the Saturday and my club will shoot in the morning, doubt I'll be up to an early start! I got the.223 16" barrel version with the AR mag well conversion fitted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaedra1106 Posted October 10, 2014 Report Share Posted October 10, 2014 (edited) Excellent I was hoping he'd do one in 300 but I'd settle for a 7.62x39 just not sure if reduced loads for indoors will cycle it, should be about the same energy as a 9mm as it'll be around 4gr of N310. Edited October 10, 2014 by phaedra1106 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outdoorsman Posted October 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 Well i just need to go to the farm and get that stuff signed and we should be good, see what happens it would be a miracle to recieve it before christmas we can but dream!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psycho Posted October 12, 2014 Report Share Posted October 12, 2014 (edited) Well i just need to go to the farm and get that stuff signed and we should be good, see what happens it would be a miracle to recieve it before christmas we can but dream!!! Christmas you will be lucky mine went in on the 7th of july its a renewal for fac and shotgun to be added the cheque has gone out in the first week from my account got phone call asking if I had the drs report said no, that was 6 weeks ago no call since my licence runs out in November, one of my mates applied for renewal first week in may he has held licence for 20 years, he has been on a section 7 since the middle of august I have given in and gone for the medical, reason being it says on the site somewhere that it may speed up the process, as I have a new shotgun waiting in a shop that I bought 2 month ago and I would like it in my cabinet. If the gunshop went under I would be a grand and a half out of pocket, I know BASC say no but they are a lobby group and they don't have a shotgun waiting in a shop my mate has held out on the medical and he had to hand in his expanding ammunition to a gun shot 2 months ago and cant buy any till he gets his licence back he has a shotgun so can still get shotgun ammo under the section 7 he has phoned them on numerous occasions and they will get to him when they can note on the site https://www.durham.police.uk/Information-and-advice/firearms-and-firearms-licensing/Pages/default.aspx first para GP Scheme for ALL applicants note on this page in darkened font https://www.durham.police.uk/Information-and-advice/firearms-and-firearms-licensing/Documents/Current%20GP%20scheme%20letter%20to%20applicant%20%28V5%20Oct%202014%29.pdf it says --thee is no legal requirement to fill in the medical however completion may expedite the application --- so having paid my £38 I hope I go to the front of the que I remember the good old days when a variation took 4 days and an application took 2 weeks now we cross our fingers and hope we don't die of old age before getting your licence back - which I shouldn't as it would have been picked up on my medical Edited October 12, 2014 by psycho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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