Paul in North Lincs. Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 This may have been covered before..........(Ihaven't checked) but I would like to gauge peoples views about working 'undocked' spaniels......................and the rules relating to tail docking. My position................I have an ESS pup that I want to work. He was bought from a repituable FT breeder...........including tail (breeder against docking). The pup is now 18 weeks old and I need to know:- - Is it too late to have it docked, and indeed is it still legal ? - Does anyone work an undocked ESS? In hind sight I should have perhaps bought from a working line, which could have already been docked, but I bought the 'brains and pedigree' at a competative price. What are your views...should I?.....shouldn't I?......does it really matter? cheers Pau Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiercel Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 I doubt that you would get a vet to dock the tail now. There is a spaniel working on the shoot I beat / pick up on and the end of her tail is in ribbons at the end of the day. As we have a shoot every 2 weeks through the season it never gets a chance to heal properly. It took about 3 days working before it started bleeding, but then just got progresivly worse through out the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 As I understand it, it is still legal in England and Wales to dock however this should be done within 36 hrs of birth.I think you will be better to work the dog and see if it is prone to it(more than likely ) take pictures of any damage to it`s tail and send them to BASC etc. If it is constantly splitting you may need to get an amputation to stop the damage occuring. I will have to transport my bitch to england to have her pups, get them docked and then return......something I don`t take on lightly now that it has been banned here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 Technically it is still legal in the UK however finding a vet to do it is easier said than done. I believe you can pick up info from a few websites but vets are becoming a bit reluctant as there are a few organisations out there dying to try and get one of them prosecuted for doing it Sticking my neck out a bit but mine were both done by my mum at less than 12 hours old, (she used to be married to a vet and worked in the surgery for a long time) grey area legality wise but definitely the best way as there was no stress involved and at that age the puppy feels nothing and you don't have to take them into a vets when they are at their most vulnerable to infections. As for the spaniel well all I can say is good luck and keep an eye on it. It is too late to have it docked and would be a fairly major procedure and you probably will have trouble getting someone to do it. However work it for a while and see what happens you may be lucky or you may end up having it amputated after infection like a lab I knew that developed gangarene Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootingman Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 As Henry d said, tail docking must be carried out in the 1st 36/48 hrs after birth, after that its to late, normally FT breeder do dock their pups, but not as harshly as shooters as they normally dock 1/3 off the taper,thus enabling the handler to still see the dog in cover. I doubt very much if you will find a vet that will dock at this age, as it will now require a general anaethestic, & most vets don't like administering it unless neccesary ( most vets nowadays don't think docking is a neccessity ). I breed both E.S.S. & Labs, & a few years ago I joined the British Society for Docked Breeds, these people are very helpful & a good body to have on our side, I doubt if they can help with your situation at present but may be worth a look & for the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirky640 Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 As I understand it, it is still legal in England and Wales to dock however this should be done within 36 hrs of birth.I think you will be better to work the dog and see if it is prone to it(more than likely ) take pictures of any damage to it`s tail and send them to BASC etc. If it is constantly splitting you may need to get an amputation to stop the damage occuring. I will have to transport my bitch to england to have her pups, get them docked and then return......something I don`t take on lightly now that it has been banned here hendry my vet docked my two pups just 5 weeks ago im closer if you like ?? hes happy and hunts and shoots and under stands how things are kirky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stokie Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 I asked my vet this question a few weeks ago. He told me that it is now illegal to dock, but there is a legal loophole which he wasnt prepared to comment on .He said he only knew of one vet in the country that was still docking and he is based in Manchester and he charges £600 per litter of 6 dogs and must be done under 2 days old. Incidently my own vet said he would have no problem amputating a damaged tail.... That doesnt mean i wish to go stomping on my dog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 I asked my vet this question a few weeks ago. He told me that it is now illegal to dock, but there is a legal loophole which he wasnt prepared to comment on .He said he only knew of one vet in the country that was still docking and he is based in Manchester and he charges £600 per litter of 6 dogs and must be done under 2 days old. Incidently my own vet said he would have no problem amputating a damaged tail.... That doesnt mean i wish to go stomping on my dog My 5 Cocker pups are now just over 5 weeks old. Took them to my vets when they were 3 days old to get their tails docked & dew claws removed & was charged £5-00 a pup. He told me that as from March (I think) that to get any more tails docked I would have to bring photographic proof of my ID, a letter from my local shoot stating that my dogs work on the shoot, and finally that the pups would have to be micro-chipped at the time of docking (an extra £20-00 per pup). Now, apart from him being a bit dearer on the chipping then it's no problem for me. Two years ago I took 4 dogs to get micro-chipped - pet-log were doing a chipping promotion locally so had them all done cheap . Luckily I took proof of the KC registration with me, as the youngest dog was just over 12 weeks old and they could not chip any pup under 12 weeks old. Point being - how can they now do the chipping at only 3 days old ?? My vet said it's bloody stupid, as the chip will move around too much in a pup so young. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirky640 Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 I asked my vet this question a few weeks ago. He told me that it is now illegal to dock, but there is a legal loophole which he wasnt prepared to comment on .He said he only knew of one vet in the country that was still docking and he is based in Manchester and he charges £600 per litter of 6 dogs and must be done under 2 days old. Incidently my own vet said he would have no problem amputating a damaged tail.... That doesnt mean i wish to go stomping on my dog mate thats totaly over the top 600 quideroos to dock 6 tail and 24 dew claws no chance my grandfather used to do it him self cheers kirky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiercel Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 This is the new law that comes into force in England in April. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul in North Lincs. Posted February 28, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 ...............that seems to have cleared that up. I will work him and see how he gets on.. thanks :unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 Interesting that it only mentions a Vet has to certify that the pup is likely to be a working dog but doesn't mention the docking has to be done by a vet. So yet another totally unworkable Labour law that cost loads to fanny about creating yet won't stop any tails being docked as they will all be declared as working dogs :unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison391 Posted March 1, 2007 Report Share Posted March 1, 2007 I have contacted the docked breeds association and they gave me the number of my local one which is in leeds, i know there is one in grimsby that does it if you want any help i will try and get the number for you alison391 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROBLATCH Posted March 1, 2007 Report Share Posted March 1, 2007 I doubt that you would get a vet to dock the tail now. There is a spaniel working on the shoot I beat / pick up on and the end of her tail is in ribbons at the end of the day. As we have a shoot every 2 weeks through the season it never gets a chance to heal properly. It took about 3 days working before it started bleeding, but then just got progresivly worse through out the season. THE GUY I BOUGHT MY COCKER FROM HAD THE VETS ( kensington vets) DOCK THE TAILS ON THEM BUT ONLY ON THE PRODUCTION OF A SHOTGUN CERTIFICATE TO SHOW THE DOGS WERE BREAD FOR WORK IT COST HIM £70 FOR A LITTER OF 6 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quickshot Posted March 1, 2007 Report Share Posted March 1, 2007 Vets, legally can still do it but as previously said fnding a vet willing is easier said than done. Also production of a shotgun cert is a must to show the dog is for working. You can still have it done to the dog now but i wouldnt leave it too much longer. QS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackthorn Posted March 4, 2007 Report Share Posted March 4, 2007 paul my bitch has a full tail , tried to get her done but she was two old 8 weeks she works bramble well pushing through some of the thickest stuff I've seen. the only problem that she has her tong gets some good cuts. wonder if they could amputate that it would stop her sticking it in me ear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackthorn Posted March 4, 2007 Report Share Posted March 4, 2007 paul my bitch has a full tail , tried to get her done but she was two old 8 weeks she works bramble well pushing through some of the thickest stuff I've seen. the only problem that she has her tong gets some good cuts. wonder if they could amputate that it would stop her sticking it in me ear Better the dog than the missus at least the dog dont want anything not far wrong there kid :( our bell all she asks for is a walk and 2 go shooting, the other one 2 much of my time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Country_est Posted March 4, 2007 Report Share Posted March 4, 2007 Hi, I have a Lab (not Springer) but he is the first one I have had that had his dew claws still attached. He went to the vets last sept to have them removed after catching on whislt out on a training seesion / walk. As this was the second time he had nearly ripped them off the vet did a full removal of the damaged one and took the other off as a precaution. So whilst working the dog I would always carry a first aid kit (eihter in the car (big one) or smaller one with you.) Post about it here Cheers Trev. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nbd1 Posted March 8, 2007 Report Share Posted March 8, 2007 I have worked 2 undocked springers this year and will never do it again. One ended up having to have the tail docked very short because of infection and the other one the tail has been saved. Both dogs have had a terrible season suffering from infection even after resting them within an hour of going out there tails would be bleeding, I personally would try to find a vet that will do it now although it will be an opperation now rather than a sissor job. Vet bills dont ask but at the last count over £1000 Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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