UKIP - merged threads

[kdubya]

the previous poster posted a RANDOM piece of information about ONE polish CRIMINAL, I posted a RANDOM picture of NINE polish people who saved your ancestors lives.

 

 

It shows how stupid it is to generalise.

I think the reference to the polish chap coming over and killing on the way was not in itself simply the fact that he was Polish more the fact that criminals from another country can (even it seems whilst waiting to be sentenced) still travel freely across our non existent borders,perhaps it you who is generalising rather than seeing the content and reason for a post, which to me is even more stupid is it not.

 

 

KW

[krugerandsmith]

the previous poster posted a RANDOM piece of information about ONE polish CRIMINAL, I posted a RANDOM picture of NINE polish people who saved your ancestors lives.

 

 

It shows how stupid it is to generalise.

 

Yes great picture ..... as a kid on holiday in the 1940s at RAF Church Fenton ...... lots of Polish pilots, very brave men. ... Treated badly after the war Polish service personal ..... not allowed to walk in the London celebrations alongside other nations.

[Scully]

I think the reference to the polish chap coming over and killing on the way was not in itself simply the fact that he was Polish more the fact that criminals from another country can (even it seems whilst waiting to be sentenced) still travel freely across our non existent borders,

 

 

KW

Exactly. Let's not forget the Latvian/Lithuanian(?) who only last year after being freed in his homeland after serving a short sentence for murdering his wife was then free to come to the UK where he murdered a teenage girl along a canal towpath before presumably hanging himself in a local park. There is a thread on it on this forum.

I'm not making sweeping generalisations about immigrants, I'm making a statement about the laws, or more accurately, the lack of laws governing who those immigrants are.

[Dead-Eyed Duck]

the previous poster posted a RANDOM piece of information about ONE polish CRIMINAL, I posted a RANDOM picture of NINE polish people who saved your ancestors lives.

 

 

It shows how stupid it is to generalise.

 

Absolute cobblers. All you have done is to waste your time thinking of the most ridiculous, oblique item that you could use to justify your biased argument.

 

Previous posts have all centred on the fact that it is the totally unregulated immigration that concerns anyone that has a brain in this country.

 

Unregulated immigration has lead to the mess that is the NHS/schools/welfare/benefit systems being swamped and unusable, and budgets being tossed out of the window.

 

Cameron has lied and lied about his determination to control immigration, and that is one reason why UKIP is doing so well. Nigel, for all his obvious faults has at least held down a non-political job before entering politics. That is one reason that he stands out compared to the smarmy likes of Cameron, Milliband, Clegg and co, who have never had to worry about 'honestly' earning a £1 to feed themselves and their families.

 

Quite rightly anyone who has a brain understandably thinks that Cameron's promises about a true, clear referendum is a pack of lies too.

 

My son is currently working in Canada, and every time that he changes jobs there his prospective employers are asked "Before you employ this person are there any Canadian citizens who can do this job first?". He has had endless grief obtaining visas, and is now applying for Canadian residency.

 

Yes, Cameron did inherit a financial mess when he came to power, but unthinkingly slashing jobs such as immigration control workers has only resulted in a situation that a 10 year old could have forecast.

[keg]

NF is hardly a man of the people, silver spoon material which i am happy with but let's not kid ourselves that he's one of us.

[welsh1]

the previous poster posted a RANDOM piece of information about ONE polish CRIMINAL, I posted a RANDOM picture of NINE polish people who saved your ancestors lives.

 

 

It shows how stupid it is to generalise.

Yes it is stupid to generalise.lol.

 

Hoisted by your own petard.

[Dead-Eyed Duck]

NF is hardly a man of the people, silver spoon material which i am happy with but let's not kid ourselves that he's one of us.

 

Please read and digest the post before sprinting to the keyboard.

 

I never did say that he was one of the people - just closer than the others who have seen nothing of the real world, apart from University/public school debating centres where they pontificated to their hearts content, and at that time it affected nobody.

 

At least Nige appears to have grasped the fact that most of Joe Public is deeply concerned about unlimited immigration, and the effects that it has had on our society. The fact that they have never been part of Joe Public's basic society means that they have no concept whatsoever about life at grass roots level. In fairness, how can they?

 

Politics is all about sticking to your guns on fundamental matters, and compromising about the rest. Cameron et al don't appeared to have learned this basic fact. Nor that telling porky pies on fundamental matters means that eventually you will be found out.

[FalconFN]

Eu open door immigration...... This guy was coming to the uk when he killed this poor kid.........

http://news.sky.com/story/1466793/chloe-killing-accused-hid-in-girls-bedroom

Yeah the eu gives us lots of stuff

There are wider problems associated with [EU] immigration but posting that story as an example of one of the problems is utterly pathetic and diverts attention from real problems to divisive scaremongering that is fuel for the hateful. For that story to have any relevance at all you have to somehow believe certain illogicalities; that Poland has a higher per capita number of psychopaths than Britain, that it would be impossible for him to travel in Europe if the EU didn't exist, that if he was French or British he would have been caught.

 

The truth is that there is much more police cooperation and intelligence sharing now than there would be without the EU, gone are the days when criminals could hide out in European countries - it isn't remotely perfect but at least make an effort to find real, tangible problems that are directly related to EU immigration, and not perceived threats that breed hate.

 

These horrific cases are disgusting, but they are rare and NOT a symptom of EU immigration or an example of why Jonny foreigner types are dangerous criminals and shouldn't be let in. If you extend your logic and look at British paedophiles going to Thailand or people going off to fight for ISIS then we should close our borders to keep us all IN, that would certainly make the world a safer place.

Edited April 19, 2015 by FalconFN

[overandunder2012]

i guess weather nigel speaks for the people or only a few of the people will be seen on may the 7th but theres no way he's like the average joe he has been privileged all his life just like the others and i doubt he would get out of bed for minimum wage..

 

i do wonder what his thoughts are for the many british citizens that currently are married to non eu citizens that cant live in their own county with their spouse due to british immigration regulations, does he speak for them? .i find it shocking an englishman cant live in his own country with the wife he's chosen

Edited April 19, 2015 by overandunder2012

[welsh1]

i guess weather nigel speaks for the people or only a few of the people will be seen on may the 7th but theres no way he's like the average joe he has been privileged all his life just like the others and i doubt he would get out of bed for minimum wage..

 

i do wonder what his thoughts are for the many british citizens that currently are married to non eu citizens that cant live in their own county with their spouse due to british immigration regulations, does he speak for them? .

Why don't you email the UKIP party and find out?

[grrclark]

There are wider problems associated with [EU] immigration but posting that story as an example of one of the problems is utterly pathetic and diverts attention from real problems to divisive scaremongering that is fuel for the hateful. For that story to have any relevance at all you have to somehow believe certain illogicalities; that Poland has a higher per capita number of psychopaths than Britain, that it would be impossible for him to travel in Europe if the EU didn't exist, that if he was French or British he would have been caught.

 

The truth is that there is much more police cooperation and intelligence sharing now than there would be without the EU, gone are the days when criminals could hide out in European countries - it isn't remotely perfect but at least make an effort to find real, tangible problems that are directly related to EU immigration, and not perceived threats that breed hate.

 

These horrific cases are disgusting, but they are rare and NOT a symptom of EU immigration or an example of why Jonny foreigner types are dangerous criminals and shouldn't be let in. If you extend your logic and look at British paedophiles going to Thailand or people going off to fight for ISIS then we should close our borders to keep us all IN, that would certainly make the world a safer place.

That is an excellent post.

[overandunder2012]

Why don't you email the UKIP party and find out?

i could do but i was hoping someone here already knows as i also wonder how kippers feel about an englishman being told who he can or cant marry by the government?

Edited April 19, 2015 by overandunder2012

[compo90]

I used to live within yards of the polish war memorial in bletchley park, if I wasn't working I would often attend that when wreaths were being laid.

 

The article I put a link to had no relevance to him being polish just showing one of the many problems with the eu open borders.

 

A lot of poles are racist and us being a multicultural society this causes problems, I am only judging this by the far right polish stickers plastered in toilets at my current employers......

 

Yes we have home grown terrorists and paedo's etc...... But why allow more in?

 

Eu police liaison is poor I know first hand and only brings stuff to light usually after the fact

[welsh1]

i could do but i was hoping someone here already knows as i also wonder how kippers feel about an englishman being told who he can or cant marry by the government?

Nothing like getting the correct advice from the people who know

http://www.ukip.org/contact

[poontang]

 

 

i do wonder what his thoughts are for the many british citizens that currently are married to non eu citizens that cant live in their own county with their spouse due to british immigration regulations, does he speak for them? .i find it shocking an englishman cant live in his own country with the wife he's chosen

 

 

Why don't you ask your local Tory/Lib Dem and Labour representatives?

 

After all it would be them who have put in place any legislation regarding your question. It's interesting that it's the coalition who have reduced the number of non EU migrants to this country, not UKIP. In fact UKIP would want to forge closer links with non EU countries, predominantly those who are members of the Commonwealth. I would think therefore that their position regards your question would likely be more relaxed than that of the present government.

[Glenshooter]

 

 

Why don't you ask your local Tory/Lib Dem and Labour representatives?

 

After all it would be them who have put in place any legislation regarding your question. It's interesting that it's the coalition who have reduced the number of non EU migrants to this country, not UKIP. In fact UKIP would want to forge closer links with non EU countries, predominantly those who are members of the Commonwealth. I would think therefore that their position regards your question would likely be more relaxed than that of the present government.

 

I thought a criticism from many UKIP supporters of the current coalition was that it didn't reduce immigration from non-EU countries??

[compo90]

 

I thought a criticism from many UKIP supporters of the current coalition was that it didn't reduce immigration from non-EU countries??

There is a difference between non eu countries and commonwealth countries.

 

Ukip are pro commonwealth..........so am I they are our extended "family" as such...... Its the commonwealth where we should be looking for the immigrants we need, and to be fair where we get a lot of nhs staff from.

 

We historically have ties with these countries and is where I feel we can benefit each other, and should be doing trade and migration.

 

Ukip also agrees that we should take refugees........

 

Eu migration is a major drain, as is eu membership...... We all would be better off out of it

[Glenshooter]

There is a difference between non eu countries and commonwealth countries.

 

Ukip are pro commonwealth..........so am I they are our extended "family" as such...... Its the commonwealth where we should be looking for the immigrants we need, and to be fair where we get a lot of nhs staff from.

 

We historically have ties with these countries and is where I feel we can benefit each other, and should be doing trade and migration.

 

Ukip also agrees that we should take refugees........

 

Eu migration is a major drain, as is eu membership...... We all would be better off out of it

 

Agree with you on much of that re EU. Just surprised that UKIP believe we 'should be doing trade and migration' with the Commonwealth, which of course, in addition to countries like Australia, New Zealand and Canada, other countries like Bangladesh, Botswana, India, Kenya, Mozambique, Nigeria, Pakistan etc.

 

I thought that UKIP didn't want more immigration from Pakistan and India? Which I believe the coalition have also reduced.

 

You've given a very different view of UKIP policy than I was led to believe from the UKIP guys around here.

[compo90]

I am only quoting what I read, its interesting that you differentiate between the commonwealth countries where the majority are white and those that aren't......which seems to be something that anti ukip people do trying to tarnish ukip as racist.

 

India is a thriving economy these days but is also a place we get nhs staff and doctors from.

[FalconFN]

I am only quoting what I read, its interesting that you differentiate between the commonwealth countries where the majority are white and those that aren't......which seems to be soomething that anti ukip people do trying to tarnish ukip as racist.

India is a thriving economy these days but is also a place we get nhs staff and doctors from.

I think the point is they are wealthy countries with high levels of education and a shared language and religion, not that they are primarily white. Edited April 19, 2015 by FalconFN

[poontang]

 

I thought a criticism from many UKIP supporters of the current coalition was that it didn't reduce immigration from non-EU countries??

 

Nope.

 

The coalition HAS reduced immigration from non EU countries. UKIP's stance is that many highly qualified non EU citizens are barred from entry while we have a open door policy from the EU, which includes many low skilled migrants.

 

The coalition have had to do something to try and reduce immigration, and whilst it's impossible to restrict migration from the EU they have had to make reductions from other areas.

 

There seems to be a massive amount of misinformation on UKIP's immigration policy. Quite simply, if there's a need for skills which is unable to be filled by British citizens then they have no problem with bringing in suitably qualified foreign nationals to fill that skills gap, from wherever that may be. It's all about matching the skill set and filling the gaps. A highly qualified doctor from India, Africa or Australia would be welcome if he/she would help fill a shortfall of doctors in the NHS. A boatload of non skilled chancers from Europe are not.

The reasons are clear, and obvious.

We have a workforce who are more than capable of filling low skilled jobs, but successive governments, Labour in the main, have kept them reliable on the state and thereby turned them into part of their core vote. Meanwhile they have an on tap tide of cheap European labour willing to work for low wages and poor conditions. It's a win win situation for the parties, and dare I say it, the bosses of the businesses that employ them.

Why do you think all parties and many big business owners want to stay in the EU? The argument that we'd lose trade is ridiculous, it simply won't happen. Europe need us as a trading partner, and indeed we need them too. However, we do NOT need to be in a political union to be able to trade with other EU countries. When the politicians say we'll lose jobs by leaving the EU what they really mean is that we'll lose our pool of cheap foreign labour.

But of course we won't.

If a company cannot fulfill it's needs with UK workers there would still be nothing to stop them recruiting abroad, all it would do is put the emphasis on employers to source employees locally. It would also force government to confront any skills shortages with a proper education and training package. At the moment it's all to easy to turn a blind eye and carry on importing labour when what we really need is a total rethink on the reasons why we're in the situation we are at the moment.

If we have to import doctors and nurses we have to ask ourselves why. It's the same situation with low skilled workers. Again we have to ask why we aren't getting British citizens into jobs that foreign labour will snap up. Then we need to deal with the reasons why, which involves difficult decisions and investment. Something government are reticent to do, it could cost them votes, and after all it's easier and cheaper to simply import labour.

[Scully]

 

Nope.

 

The coalition HAS reduced immigration from non EU countries. UKIP's stance is that many highly qualified non EU citizens are barred from entry while we have a open door policy from the EU, which includes many low skilled migrants.

 

The coalition have had to do something to try and reduce immigration, and whilst it's impossible to restrict migration from the EU they have had to make reductions from other areas.

 

There seems to be a massive amount of misinformation on UKIP's immigration policy. Quite simply, if there's a need for skills which is unable to be filled by British citizens then they have no problem with bringing in suitably qualified foreign nationals to fill that skills gap, from wherever that may be. It's all about matching the skill set and filling the gaps. A highly qualified doctor from India, Africa or Australia would be welcome if he/she would help fill a shortfall of doctors in the NHS. A boatload of non skilled chancers from Europe are not.

The reasons are clear, and obvious.

We have a workforce who are more than capable of filling low skilled jobs, but successive governments, Labour in the main, have kept them reliable on the state and thereby turned them into part of their core vote. Meanwhile they have an on tap tide of cheap European labour willing to work for low wages and poor conditions. It's a win win situation for the parties, and dare I say it, the bosses of the businesses that employ them.

Why do you think all parties and many big business owners want to stay in the EU? The argument that we'd lose trade is ridiculous, it simply won't happen. Europe need us as a trading partner, and indeed we need them too. However, we do NOT need to be in a political union to be able to trade with other EU countries. When the politicians say we'll lose jobs by leaving the EU what they really mean is that we'll lose our pool of cheap foreign labour.

But of course we won't.

If a company cannot fulfill it's needs with UK workers there would still be nothing to stop them recruiting abroad, all it would do is put the emphasis on employers to source employees locally. It would also force government to confront any skills shortages with a proper education and training package. At the moment it's all to easy to turn a blind eye and carry on importing labour when what we really need is a total rethink on the reasons why we're in the situation we are at the moment.

If we have to import doctors and nurses we have to ask ourselves why. It's the same situation with low skilled workers. Again we have to ask why we aren't getting British citizens into jobs that foreign labour will snap up. Then we need to deal with the reasons why, which involves difficult decisions and investment. Something government are reticent to do, it could cost them votes, and after all it's easier and cheaper to simply import labour.

Best post of the thread.

[Glenshooter]

Best post of the thread.

Agree. Excellent post and thanks for that. I may well vote UKIP myself - as I agree with most of that. Just wish other UKIP supporters were so rational. And, I'm in a totally safe tory seat of >20,000 majority so no chance of me helping to let in labour/SNP .

[d17 len]

 

 

Which begs the question, why do we have to be tied into a European Union which inhibits our ability to trade with the rest of the world?

 

For what it's worth I totally agree with your original comments.

Valid point, we seemed to trade ok before Ted Heaths intervention, lets be honest, what reason does the man in the street really want out of the European union?, Is to cease trading with European countries? no , is it to cast this once Great Island adrift from our neighbours? no, it is pure and simply to curb immigration from a level that our infrastructure can not cope with, and at present Mrs Merkel and her crew will not allow us a closed border Europe. Ask you one question, if you were living in one of these EU countries, had a nice house, good job, and your family around you, why would you want to come here, you would not, the vast majority bring little skills, and the freebies given here must be legend back in there own country, so lets have a vote: # 1 Out of Europe or # 2 Stop immigration from EU....

[Glenshooter]

its interesting that you differentiate between the commonwealth countries where the majority are white and those that aren't......which seems to be something that anti ukip people do trying to tarnish ukip as racist.

 

 

 

Er no, but I'll give you a clue to my differentiation - GDP in $bn / pop in millions is -

 

One group 67, 37, 58

 

and the other group -

 

0.8, 9.0, 1.5, 0.9, 0.6, 2.9, 1.3

 

Guess which is which?

 

Colour had nothing to do with it. At least not to me.