Paul223 Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 I can see it being in need of a change, suits cons to change too, labour would loose out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitebridges Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 This is the problem with antiquated system UKIP gain 3.5 million votes and get one seat, SNP gain 1.5 million and get 56 seats This is so bent and corrupt to my mind. We should be loading the dice against the jocks rather than make it easy for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 Agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLuke Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 Totally. They get an easy ride and want out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 after all the noise and hullabaloo what did it actually generate 1 seat and the main man looking likely not to get in, they have about as much credibility as the Greens Are you serious?they have shaken British politics to the core and are now the third party. UK vote share after 606 of 650 seats Party % CON 36.4 LAB 30.7 UKIP 12.4 LD 7.8 SNP 5.1 GRN 3.7 First past the post is the stumbling block,do you think it right that a party with over double the voters of snp have one seat while the snp have 56 seats. UKIP have done something not seen in politics for a long time,and you may laugh but there are statisticians out there having heart attacks at these results and what they mean for the future of British politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFN Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 This is so bent and corrupt to my mind. We should be loading the dice against the jocks rather than make it easy for them. It isn't corrupt at all, it has just become the wrong system because of the way our political parties have evolved. It is certainly unrepresentative now but I'm not sure exactly what form of PR would be best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 Yeah you've got to feel for the 55% of folk in Scotland who want to stay part of the Union but will be lucky to be represented! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 (edited) Yep, I think we've had enough of the jocks and the current voting system. Maybe first past the post has had its time? You have to remember that a lot of the Scottish boundaries were redrawn in the Blair/Brown years because in those days they thought they were squeezing the Conservatives out of Scotland.It was done quite openly too. Scotland is a problem now in many ways but one of them is too many seats in proportion to the population. Labour were very happy with this up till now. However, they may well now support a new investigation by the Boundaries Commission Edited May 8, 2015 by Vince Green Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 Agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 i think a lot of purple went blue at the last moment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 Yes, and an awful lot of red went purple Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 s It isn't corrupt at all, it has just become the wrong system because of the way our political parties have evolved. It is certainly unrepresentative now but I'm not sure exactly what form of PR would be best. Thats the problem, the devil is in the detail. Also remember at present you vote for the candidate to represent you not the party he belongs to. This may have become blurred over the years but with PR you vote for the party alone. Parliament is a "house of representatives" PR would change that into a house of members appointed by the party. Jobs for the boys! Look how Labour has filled the front benches with its own former employees, (ex researchers in fact) rather than the party faithful who have come up through the ranks. Very few political observers seem to see that Labour has been hijacked by people who have no real sympathy with the origins of the party but are just talking heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 (edited) Yes, and an awful lot of red went purple indeed but the torys are coming out on top so i have to conclude they took the bigger share, i think the snp damaged labour the most Edited May 8, 2015 by overandunder2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krugerandsmith Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 Because we don't do proportional representation Absolutely correct. If things don't change, Labour will never win again. We have a crazy voting system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krugerandsmith Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 A large share of the Vote in fact which makes them the third most credible party in England. Absolutely correct Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 now all that remains is to see is how it goes in thanet south Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krugerandsmith Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 after all the noise and hullabaloo what did it actually generate 1 seat and the main man looking likely not to get in, they have about as much credibility as the Greens Chris. What planet are you from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 Sorry to see some of the ignorant anti Scottish comments again, I thought we had moved past that. So far as numerical representation goes as a population share then we are ever so slightly over represented by 1 MP, in terms of fiscal contribution then we are appropriately represented. First past the post has failings all through the UK, not just Scotland. I am far from the militant jock but please don't peddle ignorance. The percentage share of the vote for SNP in Scotland was 50% yet they got 95% of the Scottish MPs. This makes at least half of Scotland feel hacked off too. This vote is nothing to do with independence, it is a vote for change, exactly the same as the UKIP vote. It is a vote against the Westminster establishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFN Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 s Thats the problem, the devil is in the detail. Also remember at present you vote for the candidate to represent you not the party he belongs to. This may have become blurred over the years but with PR you vote for the party alone. Parliament is a "house of representatives" PR would change that into a house of members appointed by the party. Jobs for the boys! Look how Labour has filled the front benches with its own former employees, (ex researchers in fact) rather than the party faithful who have come up through the ranks. Very few political observers seem to see that Labour has been hijacked by people who have no real sympathy with the origins of the party but are just talking heads. That's a good point well put. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 s Thats the problem, the devil is in the detail. Also remember at present you vote for the candidate to represent you not the party he belongs to. This may have become blurred over the years but with PR you vote for the party alone. Parliament is a "house of representatives" PR would change that into a house of members appointed by the party. Jobs for the boys! Look how Labour has filled the front benches with its own former employees, (ex researchers in fact) rather than the party faithful who have come up through the ranks. Very few political observers seem to see that Labour has been hijacked by people who have no real sympathy with the origins of the party but are just talking heads. I agree Vince, PR removes individual responsibility and accountability by the candidate to his constituency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 Absolutely correct. If things don't change, Labour will never win again. We have a crazy voting system. I would like to say that could only be a good thing but in really it probably wouldn't be the case, it's good for the country for politics to prevail rather than ram bills through....... Like labour did with the hunting with dogs bill! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 I agree Vince, PR removes individual responsibility and accountability by the candidate to his constituency. Indeed PR by itself would be a poor way to do business May be a combination of the two, something like a share of voting percentage, so looking at the extreme the (currently) sole UKIP seat would hold a 12% share of vote casting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 Indeed PR by itself would be a poor way to do business May be a combination of the two, something like a share of voting percentage, so looking at the extreme the (currently) sole UKIP seat would hold a 12% share of vote casting It is a hybrid system in Scotland with a mix of first past the post and PR based on list members. It works, albeit it is still not accurately as we currently have a strong SNP majority despite only a 45% share of the vote. I think that is the problem, how do you offer individual accountability yet make it simple for the electorate, who rather sadly are mostly fairly simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandalf Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 Sorry to see some of the ignorant anti Scottish comments again, I thought we had moved past that. So far as numerical representation goes as a population share then we are ever so slightly over represented by 1 MP, in terms of fiscal contribution then we are appropriately represented. First past the post has failings all through the UK, not just Scotland. I am far from the militant jock but please don't peddle ignorance. The percentage share of the vote for SNP in Scotland was 50% yet they got 95% of the Scottish MPs. This makes at least half of Scotland feel hacked off too. This vote is nothing to do with independence, it is a vote for change, exactly the same as the UKIP vote. It is a vote against the Westminster establishment. Well the biggest change I would like to see is to make Scotland totally responsible for its own finances. Raise your own taxes and spend your own money on your own services. Then see how SNP gets on in the next election. One report says you would be 7.8 billion pounds short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitebridges Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 Sorry to see some of the ignorant anti Scottish comments again, I thought we had moved past that. So far as numerical representation goes as a population share then we are ever so slightly over represented by 1 MP, in terms of fiscal contribution then we are appropriately represented. First past the post has failings all through the UK, not just Scotland. I am far from the militant jock but please don't peddle ignorance. The percentage share of the vote for SNP in Scotland was 50% yet they got 95% of the Scottish MPs. This makes at least half of Scotland feel hacked off too. This vote is nothing to do with independence, it is a vote for change, exactly the same as the UKIP vote. It is a vote against the Westminster establishment. The vote for Scottish Independence has left a very very bad taste. It very nearly broke up the Union, something a lot of Scots don't value at all. There is a lot of militant, disrespectful , anti English sentiments made by the Jocks and they don't like it when it's returned with knobs on. Who's being ignorant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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