BASC - Landowners - Shooting

[David BASC]

Again thanks Mark,

 

Surely the lads could have asked themselves?- but either way I don't mind.

 

Not just a salesman (thanks for the compliment) more than that - I need to constantly develop the BASC membership package - improve it and promote it. Not easy but great fun and very rewarding I can assure you.

 

Yep - I wear my heart on my sleve as it were- I am here to look after the member's interests first and foremost.

 

I love feedback on projects, and I love it even more when members can be honest and bold enough to tell me when they think I or BASC have got somthing wrong, so I can listen, clarify my / BASC's position and keep the constructive debate going.

 

All well and good to say somthing like ' I don't like BASC' or I don't like BASC policy' but that tells me nor anyone anything- get specific so I can answer your queries, (if you want me to!)

 

Maybe later I will get some replies to my 2.32 post -

 

D

[dazza]

any chance you could work your magic David and get me a couple of free tickets for the game fair? I think this would be a very kind gesture on BASC's part

[David BASC]

A valid point in relation to discounts for BASC members on entry to BASC shows....do you think?

 

This is one for a PM mate I think rather than this thread- not trying to be funny but would rather not get this de-railed if you know what I mean.

 

D

[Cranfield]

Again and Again and Again I say I have not been lobbying farmers to charge for pigeon / vermin shooting- how many times do I have to say this? Have I made it clear - do you understand? Obviously not so I will say again:

 

BASC ARERE NOT LOBBYING FARMERS TO MAKE THEM ASK FOR PAYMENT OF PIGEON OR ERABBIT SHOOTING

 

I am lobbying famrers to keep shooting available on their land and as they diversify into other income streams. I can assure you that if no one lobbies farmers to keep shooting - then shooting will suffer. As I have said - noto ne else is doing this so if BASC do not do it I can assure you more and more farms will stop having shooting on htier land- then you WILL have somthing ot complain about (I can see it now---where were BASC? why did they not do somthing about it)

 

I have said I will lobby farmers on my ads to keep FOC pigeon shooting - and I ask if the suggested wording was OK of if you wanted me to chage it - Chriky what else can i say? I have said that I will write to BASC clubs and syndicates asking if they wil give access to pigeon shooters and publish the results- what have you said to this? NOTHING. So you dont want me to uncover more free or v low cost pigeon shooting for you? OK, easy no further action from me on that point then?...or will you respond to my suggestion?

 

And John BASC is not just an insurance company! Yes if you want cheap insurance there are loads of options - but what else do you get? And to say you can only make one claim on the BASC polictyi s absolutly wrong! How can you have an insurance policy that will only accept one claim?

 

Nothing wrong the the NGO insurance- public liability insurance is public liability insurance. But make sure you have received what is called a 'Key Facts' document from the insurer / organisation. This is a legal document that lists all of the main inclusions and importantly exclusions of the policy. Some companies don't issue this document---ever wondered why?

 

BASC's poplitical work is value enough for the cost of membership - never has shooting been in such a positive light with the Government- and all thanks to BASC (not your insurance company John!) What price or value will you put on that= the freedom to keep shooting, the freedon to have no closed season on pigeoan & rabbit, the freedon the have a diverse quarry list.....

 

 

David

 

 

If we restrict our answer to solely pigeon shooting, lets accept that the reason Farmers permit pigeon shooting on their land is for crop protection.

There is the vested interest.

 

If the BASC lobbies Farmers to continue to make FOC pigeon shooting available, nobody is going to argue.

[markbivvy]

If the BASC lobbies Farmers to continue to make FOC pigeon shooting available, nobody is going to argue.

 

i will if its foc to basc members only.

[Hunter_zero]

And John BASC is not just an insurance company! Yes if you want cheap insurance there are loads of options - but what else do you get? And to say you can only make one claim on the BASC polictyi s absolutly wrong! How can you have an insurance policy that will only accept one claim?

 

Nothing wrong the the NGO insurance- public liability insurance is public liability insurance. But make sure you have received what is called a 'Key Facts' document from the insurer / organisation. This is a legal document that lists all of the main inclusions and importantly exclusions of the policy. Some companies don't issue this document---ever wondered why?

 

BASC's political work is value enough for the cost of membership - never has shooting been in such a positive light with the Government- and all thanks to BASC (not your insurance company John!) What price or value will you put on that= the freedom to keep shooting, the freedom to have no closed season on pigeoan & rabbit, the freedom the have a diverse quarry list.....

 

 

David

 

David, no need to take 'pot shots' at me mate! Where were the BASC when the government banned pistols? I didn't see the BASC arrange a protest in London. So before you start to endorse "political lobbying", I would first suggest that you address "Political correctness". How many times have I read such and such or so and so from the BASC tell people to stand on the moral high ground. Wake up, it didn't work for Custer and it won't work for shooters but hey, if there wasn't any political attacks on shooters, then the BASC wouldn't have a role to play, would it(?).

As for membership, can you point out how I would actually, and I mean REALLY benefit by paying you £50 per year? The BASC don't protect my shooting, I do. The BASC can not protect gun ownership, look at the Pistol ban. The insurance isn't that good. So, David sell me a membership, give me a reason to join.

 

John

[poppythedog]

"But make sure you have received what is called a 'Key Facts' document from the insurer / organisation. This is a legal document that lists all of the main inclusions and importantly exclusions of the policy. Some companies don't issue this document---ever wondered why? "

 

So come on David, tell us exactly what Basc's insurance gives us that NGO or any other association doesn't?

 

Personally I was a member of Basc but the last straw for me was when you decided to do the anti's job for them and call for the banning of raised cage laying systems. It is not your job to save Lacs etc thousands of pounds and man hours in any of their campaigns.

[starlight32]

I have read entirely through all the threads, and unfortunately I think we will all eventually be paying for shooting in one way or another,that is unless you are a landowner. We must remember- and it has not been mentioned in any other threads -a lot of land is being sort to purchase by the anti shooting groups which they in turn sell it on minus the shooting rights so no-one can shoot.

This I feel is the biggest threat to shooting overall, because it has a knock on effect right down the line.

 

As for paying for pigeon shooting- people who have the money to do it best of luck, but then it ceases to be a service -merely sport. Cranfield made a good mention in the earlier thread- when farmers call and we respond often we no than a mobile bird scarer, shifting birds to another area.

I can assure everyone that in my neck of the woods if pigeons are about and there is a PROBLEM no farmers turn you away if you are pigeon shooter -especially during the week. I do-not know any farmer who charges for this outside of a game shoot.

I still visit new farms now when I see pigeons- and 9/10 times I shoot. I think what farmers don't like with shooters is that people don't abide a two way street. They just want the use of their land when they feel like it to go wandering about with a firearm. I give you an example- you have a large farm/estate- pigeons are about in force on his ground on a tuesday- he rings and where are you most likely to be, at work.

My uncle is a gamekeeper, and he sorted this issue out long ago- he accepts new pigeon shooters who can go when they like providing they can commit on occasion during the week when really required. If you don't commit then you are struck off the list. I can assure you I have seen many,many people struck off the list over the years, because people are just not that keen.

 

As for all the airgunners on this forum who are struggling to get shooting- my simple advice is get a shotgun certificate. No estate owners/farmers I know take the issue of vermin control seriously with this method- you would be better targeting places where an actual firearm cannot be used- A caravan site or golf course for example.

[David BASC]

John,

 

Did not intend to take a pot shot at you- just streight talkin'

 

OK here we go

 

Pistols: BASC were the only shooting organisation who were prepared to go LIVE on TV the day Mr Hammilton went mad - The following morning - again it was BASC that put staff on TV to put forward shootings case

 

(Where were ALL thoe other organisations did I hear somone ask? But no one questions thier absence do you?)

 

But at the end of the day how could you persuade the public or the MP's at that time that keeping pistols was OK? Just before a general election, mass public outrage (quite rightly) who was going to successfully argue against a ban on large calibre pistols? Answers posted here would be welcome.

 

It was due in no small part to our lobbying that 22 pistols were not taken out by the Tories - but unfortunatley labour did pledge to remove them if they came to power- so they had to do what they said they would when they won the election.

 

So John we were there on the front line - we lost the battle yes- but at least we stood up to fight! If we had done nothing then you would certainly have cause to question our existance.

 

Yes BASC can protect gun ownership -for example- how about the proposal to put shotguns under Section 1? Would you wlecome that? No, nor did we so we fought it and defeated it- did you get the benefit of that -Yep

 

Can you still shoot pigeon? Yes? Who was it that started the OGL when there was very real pressure to put a closed season on pigeons from Europe?

 

Do you still have the freedom to dock your dogs tail if you want to? Yes- BASC again.

 

Political lobbying is important - and it must be done properly- if shooting is not effectively represented in Parliament then we are all wide open arn't we? Or are you saying that BASC should not lobby in support of shooting? Just clarify that for me if you would - ta.

 

Look, the list of BASC benefitrs is long, and I am NOT going to be accused of using this forum to 'Sell BASC'

 

If you want to see the benefits then either take a look at the web site- or I will send you a PM with the list, or an application booklet that shows you all that we do - then maybe you can make an informed decision- but it's up to you..

 

You ask is £50 VFM - nearly 130,000 perople htink so - which makes up the lions share of the people who belong to any shooting organisation? Only you can answer if the BASC membership is vauluable to you.

 

If it is just down to price, then I again - what price freedom?

 

Will you ever become a member of BASC? I doubt it! I think you mind is already made up and so be it.

 

As far as I am concerned everyone should belong to a shooting organisation- there are plenty to choose from with a range of benefits and services and a range of prices - so there is no excuse NOT to belong to one of them is there? And they all work together under the umbrella of the Brishish Shooting Sports Council.

 

Most people who join shooting organisation join BASC - maybe that shows awe are doing somthing right? Or maybe it just showes how good a salesman I am eh Mark?

 

What realy annoys me are the freeloaders who refuse to join any orgnaisation but sit back and get the benefits of what the oiganistions individually and collectively achieve. And most of those are un insured which realy bothers me - and it should bother all of you as well.

 

To say that the BASC insurance policy is not very good is again wrong and frankly insulting- what do you base this statement on mate ? Why do you make a statment like this when I bet you cant back it up with evidence...Not very good compared to what?

 

Part of my job is to look after the BASC insurance on a day to day basis which means I have to review every claim that comes in - and keep abreast of all the claims, answer questions from loss adjusters and underwriters, lobby lawyers, and somtimes just act as a shoulder to cry on. So to say my policy is not very good I quite honestly take very personally indeed - so put up or...you know the rest!

 

And Mark - I knew you were going to say that! - do you honestly believe that BASC can hold sufficient sway over farmers that we can dictate who they offer pigeon shooting to and who they let have it for free and who thay may want to charge-----come on get real -

 

But for the reason stated above I will make it clear that BASC members are insured for thier shooting.

 

I will make it clear that the BASC is registered with the Financial Services Authority (FSA) (unlike almost ALL of the shooting organisations) which means that we are strictly regulated on the selling of our insurance package- which means we have to tell you exactly what you are and are not covered for, and we have to send you afull copy of the insurance policy...so you can see fully what it says.

 

I will make it clear to farmers that not only are BASC members insured for their shooting- but that the BASC insurance policy will also indemnify the farmer for any claims made against them due to the activities of our member (Bet most of you did not know that if you shoot somone on a farmers land, the injured party can sue you AND the farmer - have you all got your farmers indemnifed - if you are a BASC member you have- if not get it sorted!)

 

David

[markbivvy]

And Mark - I knew you were going to say that!

just keeping you on your toes mate. :blink:

[poppythedog]

"But make sure you have received what is called a 'Key Facts' document from the insurer / organisation. This is a legal document that lists all of the main inclusions and importantly exclusions of the policy. Some companies don't issue this document---ever wondered why? "

 

So come on David, tell us exactly what Basc's insurance gives us that NGO or any other association doesn't?

 

Personally I was a member of Basc but the last straw for me was when you decided to do the anti's job for them and call for the banning of raised cage laying systems. It is not your job to save Lacs etc thousands of pounds and man hours in any of their campaigns.

David, can you answer my question, tell us exactly what Basc's insurance gives us that NGO or any other association doesn't?

[David BASC]

Poppythedog,

 

Therin lies the problem!

 

As most organisations do not produce a Key Facts document, or send you a copy of the insuraqnce policy when you join - I can't review thier products fully.No can you!

 

This is what the law governing the selling of insurqnce, or products including insurance was changesd just ocer 2 years ago to protect us - the consumer - from being sold a policy that does not do what we thought it did.

 

As I have said before - as a gernal rule public liability insurance is public liability insurance not matter who you buy it from.

 

BUT you have to be very sure what the policy covers and what it will not cover.

 

You have to be very sure what excesses or exclusions applly to the policy.

 

Now based on the VERY scare information that is out there I think it is safe ot say that ALL of the shooting organisations public liability policies are for £5 million (apart form British Arigun Shooters Association) will cover ALL legal forms of sporting shooting and related activities - some will have excesses on them or other restrictions I am sure (that is the nature of insurance!) but as these are not fully published you and i can't see what these may be.

 

All BASC members also get £5m product liability cover - this ocvers good given or sold as part of an ormal BASC activity - up to and including food served at a shoot BBQ for example.

 

Not all organisationsdoffer Prod Liability as standard - but one or two offer it as an option I believe.

 

All BASC members get £10 million Employer liability cover to cover persons hired of a casual or part time basis to assist with shoot activites. If oyu employ somone (and you do not have ot pay them for them to be employed!) the law says you MUST have an EL policy in place. failure to do so means a big fine if you are caught.

 

Not all organistions offer EL cover - but some offer it as an optional extra i believe.

 

All BASC members get £35,000 personal accident cover, which includes some payment for hospital stays. There is no lower age limit but there is an upper age limit of 80. The oicver is for what is known as Capital Benefits only - ie the loss of or the permenant loss of the use of a part of the body. So broken fingure - not covered, lost fingure - covered.

 

Most organisations offer PA cover - with differing levels of benefit, age restrictions etc - but as far as I can tell ALL are for Capital Benefits only.

 

BUT all organisations will tell you- and quite right - that they are not just insuraqnce brokers! We all offer other services and benefits as well, pick the organisation that suits you the best.

 

 

Raised cages- yes were were and still are against them - and the resons for this in detail are on the bASC site, and were published in the magazine.

 

Could you stand in a public street with a raised cage and convince the geral public that it was a good thing to battary farm pheasants for shooting?

 

If raised cages are so good why do most pheasant breaders not use them?

 

And by the way - LACS had already spent the money of getting films made, producing thier campaign etc, and where did it get them?

 

Did it make the news? NO

Did it stop pheasant breeding? NO

Did it restrict game shooting? NO

Did it gain them public support? NO

Did it cost them a bomb? Probably!

 

The vast majority of our members agreed with our stance- sorry you did not - but on some things it is almost impossible to get unilateral agreement.

 

BASC say buy you pheasants from a local breeder - support you local trader!

 

Surely you agree with that - or would you rather BASC have said oh blow the hundreds of small - medium pheasant breaders and egg producres- lets put them out of buiness and ask all out members to just buy from the few big boys who have cages, or to import form France...er I dont think so do you?!

 

Were we wrong to take this stance- I let you and history decide!

 

(But why are we talking about raised pheasant cages on a pigeon site ?)

 

David

[CharlieT]

I have just read all the posts on this topic and looked at BASC'S advert in the SW British Farmer.

 

Whilst I agree with most of the initiatives BASC have taken over the years and many of the comments David has poster in this topic I really think the wording of this advert is beyond the pail. To state that BASC have polled their membership and that 75% stated they would be prepared to pay for shooting is a travesty.

 

Fortunately I shoot on my employers farms but I suspect that if someone now knocks on his door waving this advert under his nose and offers some serious cash I can wave goodbye to my shooting and I can imagine this happening up and down the country.

 

Yes it is BASC's remit to encourage landowners to open up their land for field sports but this latest hair brained idea is a step to far.

 

Charlie

[David BASC]

Charlie,

 

Please read what I have posted, I said that we research members in the SW, individuals and our clubs and syndicates (different questions to them as I said in a earlier post) and that yielded the 75% willingness to share shooting form the affiliated clubs and syndicates- why is this a travisty to report the findings of this piece of research? Or have I missed your point? If you are saying you did not get mailing form us this could be becasue you were not on the random list of 3000 members we polled. If you sned me a PM with you e-mail address I wil send yo a set of the questions if you like?

 

As stated - the ads in BFG are aimed at opening up more sporting shooting (game) shooting .

 

As said I am willing to add to or even amend the wording on the add if you guys will give me the feedback a to what you want!

 

As stated i am willing to promote to our clubs and syndicates to share their pigeon shooting with local lads. (But out clubs and syndicates will probably only want BASC members.

 

As I have stated on earlier posts please secure your shooting by getting a propper agreement in place.

 

As other have said- as far as most farmers are concerned it is not the cash that motivates them as far as pigeons are concerned but the dammage they do - so if you are already providing the service what do you have to worry about?

 

Why is this project hair brained and a step too far? Would welcome your thoughts.

 

Poppythedog

 

No I can't because none of them to my knowledge issue a Key Facts document so there is NOTHING to compare!

 

I have given a summary of the BASC cover- please compare it to the NGO cover or anyone elses that you care to.

 

If insurance is you main motivator then it is very much in your interest to compare the organisations offering- make sure you buy the best - make sure you know what you are buying!

 

Mark - Thanks!

 

David

[magman]

Please read what I have posted, I said that we research members in the SW, individuals and our clubs and syndicates (different questions to them as I said in a earlier post) and that yielded the 75%

 

maybe you should have done your research closer to home ?

if land is tight done there people without shooting will give it there vote, but if you already have land and have it taken away from you with basc advice it would **** you off .

ps i never edited that :blink:

[Topgunners]

Again and Again and Again I say I have not been lobbying farmers to charge for pigeon / vermin shooting- how many times do I have to say this? Have I made it clear - do you understand? Obviously not so I will say again:

 

BASC ARERE NOT LOBBYING FARMERS TO MAKE THEM ASK FOR PAYMENT OF PIGEON OR ERABBIT SHOOTING

 

I am lobbying famrers to keep shooting available on their land and as they diversify into other income streams. I can assure you that if no one lobbies farmers to keep shooting - then shooting will suffer. As I have said - noto ne else is doing this so if BASC do not do it I can assure you more and more farms will stop having shooting on htier land- then you WILL have somthing ot complain about (I can see it now---where were BASC? why did they not do somthing about it)

 

I have said I will lobby farmers on my ads to keep FOC pigeon shooting - and I ask if the suggested wording was OK of if you wanted me to chage it - Chriky what else can i say? I have said that I will write to BASC clubs and syndicates asking if they wil give access to pigeon shooters and publish the results- what have you said to this? NOTHING. So you dont want me to uncover more free or v low cost pigeon shooting for you? OK, easy no further action from me on that point then?...or will you respond to my suggestion?

 

And John BASC is not just an insurance company! Yes if you want cheap insurance there are loads of options - but what else do you get? And to say you can only make one claim on the BASC polictyi s absolutly wrong! How can you have an insurance policy that will only accept one claim?

 

Nothing wrong the the NGO insurance- public liability insurance is public liability insurance. But make sure you have received what is called a 'Key Facts' document from the insurer / organisation. This is a legal document that lists all of the main inclusions and importantly exclusions of the policy. Some companies don't issue this document---ever wondered why?

 

BASC's poplitical work is value enough for the cost of membership - never has shooting been in such a positive light with the Government- and all thanks to BASC (not your insurance company John!) What price or value will you put on that= the freedom to keep shooting, the freedon to have no closed season on pigeoan & rabbit, the freedon the have a diverse quarry list.....

 

 

David

 

 

 

Methinks some of the monies I have paid to your society should be used to purchase a SPELL-CHECKER.

 

 

 

:blink:

 

Dave K

[David BASC]

Absolutely agree with the basis of what you say Magman.

 

We had a specific project in part of the SW so we researched there.

 

We did other research in the SE - not as intensive- and have uncovered many BASC shoots (game) who share the pigeon shooting with other BASC lads in the area.

 

Many of our woldfowling clubs for example already have pigeon shooting sections - (some members of which never go near the foresore!)

 

As I have said, my next step is to resarch all BASC clubs and syndicates.

 

Yes we will have regional variation - and no it is not BASC intention to take shooting away from anyone!

 

Remember, this project of BASC targeting farms to not diversify away from shooting , and charge for game shooting at a reasnable rate is not new guys - it is now 2 years old- how many of you have lost your free shooting because of this BASC initiative in the last 2 years?

 

Many of you have critisised htis project because youseem convinced it will restrict or stop your shooting- but the proof of the pudding is in the eating! None of you have lost your shooting because of this have you?

 

Many of you agree that BASC should do all we can to open up more shooting and we will do that.

 

I have promised to stress that farmers who may let thier game shooting rights to clubs and syndicates do not do so at the expense of the loyal pigeon / pest controller who has been serving them in the past (be they a BASC member or not- although obviously I would love them to be!)

 

But frankly guys if you loose your shooting to somone else that will almost certainly NOT be BASC's fault- it will be because you have not got a propper agreement in place with your landlord - I have said it before - and I speak from personal experience - if you do not have a porpper agreement in place your shooting is not secure - regardelss of what you think.

 

David

 

PS BASC can offer free guidance on shooting leases an agreements , please e-mail me at david.ilsley@basc.org.uk for more details................

 

- . Sales pitch Mark did you spot it?

[CharlieT]

David

 

I did indeed read your posts and fully understand what you and your advert states.

 

Your advert states...

 

"In a recent membership survey 75% of our members were looking for more shooting"

 

"They were all prepared to pay for the shooting rights"

 

To me this reads that 75% of membership will pay for shooting.

 

I do not wish to get into an argument but none of the people I know (most of which are mere humble farm workers on low incomes) wish to pay for their rough shooting and vermin control and I think it is quite wrong of BASC to promote such a notion.

 

As I said I agree with most of BASC's initiatives but an advert with such a statement is in my opinion just not on

 

Charlie

[markbivvy]

Sales pitch Mark did you spot it?

i did mate.

tell you what David, i dont know how much the basc pay you mate, but when you go to the office in the morning ask them for a rise, you worked hard this weekend.

good luck. and all the best to you. :blink:

[magman]

:blink:

Remember, this project of BASC targeting farms to not diversify away from shooting , and charge for game shooting at a reasnable rate is not new guys - it is now 2 years old- how many of you have lost your free shooting because of this BASC initiative in the last 2 years?

sorry but i have lost shooting in the last to years

started feeding pheasants on a shoot got them to a good head only to be told there is a syndicate taking over next year without me taking a shot at one so for the next fornight i wiped the population down to what it was before i feed them up . oh and i bought the corn of the farmer in question also.

ps he did ask me for £300 a year though to shoot for 10 days and only put 50 pheasants down .

only good side to it was still got the vermin control

 

so when you next taking a poor pigeon shooter for a shot david , god love,s a tryer

[David BASC]

Magamn,

 

As I have said, I will review the wording on the advert- and make it clear that the charging is for game shooting. Good point well made - I know what I meant on the ads- probably did not make it clear enough - thanks for pointing that out guys!

 

Yes 75 % of our members in the survery, so far, would pay for THEIR shooting- so 25% would not.

 

OK you lost your shoot- was it becasue of me? Did you ahve an agreement in place, No and No I suspect.

 

Not trying to be clever but it kinda proove my point doesn't it? This is not too far away from how my club lost the best part of the shoot about 5 years ago when we were a little driven shoot paying about £300 for the rent- but having a great 12 days a season with an average to 40 birds a day to 10 guns. No propper agreement in place- farmer thought he could get a better deal - pushed us off at the end of the saeson - could not get anyone else to take over the shoot for the rent he was asking, now the land has been sold.

 

lukily the new owner is not totally anti shooting- but we cannot put birds down and if his bl**dy cows are out we cant even shoot!

 

Hey ho at least we can shoot our woods when we like!

 

Now if you all don't mind I am going to log off for tonight.

 

Thanks very mch for the feedback all of you- it is appreciated and it is worthwhile.

 

Best wishes to all

 

Goodnight

 

D

[CharlieT]

Thank you David for listening to our views

 

Charlie

[rarms]

>Yes 75 % of our members in the survery, so far, would pay for THEIR shooting- so 25% would not.

 

 

Could this be because you asked clubs and by joining a club you have paid money QED you paid for shooting?

 

I for one live in the South and don't remember getting a questionaire!

[Blackbart]

Hi david about your point of getting an agreement written up.We have an agreement in place in writing but the only lease they were willing to give is 2 year,so our rent is reviewed every 2 year.That ended last year we have just been told by the agent that it is going up £1000 pound!! plus as i said earlier the agent has persuaded the farmer next door to start charging us to stand some guns in his field 8 times a year.We used to give him a brace of birds now and again.He is also looking into having a shoot on his land again tempted by the agent and basically free money.Are basc going down the line of sporting agents?BASC seem to be more of a political party now,which in a way is good because i know without all the *** kissing and trade offs in the houses of parliament shooting WOULD be in a worse state now.BASC does do a lot of good work for shooting and i commend them for that.I am not a member of basc but i have been in the past,the reason i left was there stance on the hunting ban(or lack of it)The impression i got was that basc did not want to upset the apple cart with the powers that be so stayed in the background saying nowt.If ALL the country sports organizations pulled in the same direction we would have a much better chance of securing our sport.Instead we get schoolyard bitching between the organizations which doesnt help anyone and gives the impression that they are in it for themselves and not the good of the cause.Anyway i digress proper agreements do not count for much as long as there is agents and organizations in the background saying WE CAN GET YOU MORE.I know you said basc isnt telling farmers to charge for shooting but is that not just a play on words,if your telling them they can charge for shooting game on their land it wont be long before they think they should be charging for all shooting then they get to the situation we are in when the price goes up and up and before you know it unless you can afford big bucks you dont have any shooting at all.

[Dave-G]

.....

 

' Remembers shooters will help you control pests such as rabbits & pigeons for FREE!'

 

How about that - anyone got any other suggestions?.....

 

David

 

David, I know this was a few posts ago but that wording suggests maybe the paying game shooters would do the rabbit and pigeon for free - when placed in a presentation that is dominated by the game shooting aspects

 

Perhaps:

 

"Please remember that vermin controllers are prepared to shoot all year round to help protect your crop and livestock, often in unsociable hours and weather - at no cost"