.22LR vs .17HMR – Paper Target and Balloon

[sandersj89]

Whilst the FEO was with me at the weekend we were discussing the merits of both calibres and moved onto the frangible nature of the .17HMR round being a big plus point. He then went on to describe demonstration he had seen.

 

Two targets were made up, both identical and consisting of a piece of A3 paper set up on a frame with a balloon placed a couple of metres behind it. These where then placed out on a range at about 40m.

 

The shooter then used a standard .22LR with a subsonic round and shot at the balloon through the paper. Small hole in the paper and popped balloon.

 

He then swapped to a standard .17HMR and fired at the second target, this time the paper was perforated but nothing went far enough through to pop the balloon, thereby demonstrating perfectly the nature of the HMR round when it hits its target.

 

Has anyone seen anything similar?

 

Once I get my two rifles I might be tempted to repeat the experiment myself.

 

Jerry

[al4x]

I've not seen similar but I have to say I doubt it, I know I've shot at a wooden box with a centre partition so spaces between the wood and its made holes in all 3 layers. Its definitely a round that fragments but I'm not sure about paper stopping it at all.

Must say though I hate the .22 we were out last week my brother with his .22 and my HMR shooting from the top of our suzuki SJ so a good downward angle and he took a rabbit killed it head shot but we got the familiar ricochet sound followed by a ting as it hit a metal post 20 yards away. Bearing in mind we were shooting on growing barley it was a bit odd to say the least.

[Peter_HMR]

Somehow doubt that as well would take a bit more than paper to deflect a round sure it wasnt the other way around ballon in front of the paper.

 

.22lr after going through a lightbulb

 

And a .17hmr

[sandersj89]

Somehow doubt that as well would take a bit more than paper to deflect a round sure it wasnt the other way around ballon in front of the paper.

 

.22lr after going through a lightbulb

 

And a .17hmr

 

Interesting images, and it does look like the described example maybe a little flawed....

[dazzyboi]

im with the majority here, the round will fragment but after hitting paper? very doubtful

[wy111]

Frangible bullets, don't believe all everything you read. One night, out lamping, I missed a fox, so I checked on a reflector on an an knackered farmers trailer, nowt wrong with the scope, my problem, but it cut a NEAT hole, straight through the steelwork(Speer 70gn TNT)

[JRDS]

I once had a richocet from a 17 GRN VMax that had passed through and killed a crow and had a number on other occasions. I wouldn't want to stand behind the piece of paper, two metres or no two metres.

[Dunkield]

So another 'magical' calibre story bites the dust then

[kip270]

Just shows how much the FEO's really know What a load of tosh, for the .17hmr bullet tests this is good

http://www.varmintal.com/17hmr.htm

[plinker]

i shot an empty beer can with mine at 75 yds, the beer can did not fall over but the round (rem) left three exit holes in the back of the can, then i shot a ceramic insulator that i found in the field (from an electrical pole) very heavy and dense and it absoloutley blew it to dust.

it is a funny round.

plinker

[Dave-G]

One of my target boards is 1" thick. I am always sure to place it in front of a backstop because the 17hmr pases through it - albeit with splinters at the back.

 

Your FEO talks a load of tosh - which is deeply worrying when we consider we get so called guidance from them. I'd like to hear what his head of department thinks about that story.

[njc110381]

I doubted it when I read it, but not owning one means I din't reply. I see them as a safer round than a .22, as the bullet will usually break up and the bits aren't spinning or stable anymore so will not go very far. It reduces the potential danger if you're say 50 yards away, but I still wouldn't want to be close behind the target because 2500fps fragments will hurt

[al4x]

Its a much safer and nicer round to use, I shoot mine in a lot of areas I'd never dream of using a .22lr. Obviously not being silly but when you get a .22lr zip off going somewhere even when shot at 20 degrees into the ground you do wonder about just how high a backstop you need

[bobby t]

i have fired a 17.hmr before and thought it was brilliant ( im not really into rifles) but which clabire is better for genreal rabbits etc then i read that both have their merits but it seems the 17 is growing in popularity, i realise im probably stirring up a hornets nest by asking but which is the better for a first rifle a .22 or .17?

[al4x]

for a first rifle I'd say the HMR, basically down to safety. Both have their plus points if you've thousands of rabbits the .22 is the rifle but if you're dealing with smaller numbers the HMR allows you a far greater range almost to the extent of being more like a centrefire than a rimfire. Drop is minimal so you don't have to be as good at guessing ranges. The downsides are noise and cost of the amunition but I know I wouldn't be without mine.

[bobby t]

can't you get subsonic rounds for the 17?? how far does the 22. with subsonics enable you8 to take rabbits, head shots obviously are better for eating them after, is the range on a supersonic .22 similiar to that of the 17'.

[njc110381]

From all the reading I've been doing, a .22 is good to 100 yards. The HMR is ok to 200 at a push! There are no subsonics in HMR, which is a shame. The .22 has much more ammo choice, and would be a better gun if you only want one rifle and have experience. I went for HMR as a first rifle purely for safety reasons in the end. The ammo is expensive, it's loud, and ammo choice is limited-but it's far safer on open ground as it doesn't ricochet so easily and loses power faster at long range

[kip270]

Why would you want subsonic ammo for a .17, what benefit would that be??? The reason the .17hmr is so popular is because it is a fast little round, thats why it is called the HMR HORNADY MAGNUM ROUND so you wouldn't get a subsonic pill with magnum specs.

 

can't you get subsonic rounds for the 17?? how far does the 22. with subsonics enable you8 to take rabbits, head shots obviously are better for eating them after, is the range on a supersonic .22 similiar to that of the 17'.

 

Depends how good a shot you are, and if you can put the bullet in the right spot. My self imposed max range on bunnies with the .22 is 80 yards, but my son shot this pigeon at 145 yards (this was ranged before the shot with my leica 1200 laser range finder)

http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/ind...c=22541&hl=

[njc110381]

I know it's the HORNADY MAGNUM RIMFIRE, but it could be made into a slower round too (I don't actually know if it's possible, but if it is then it would be good). Obviously it would ideally need a heavier bullet like the 25gr ones used in the .17rem to give it any power at the slower speed, and I'm not sure if the bullet shape may need changing slightly? That's like saying why make a sonic .22lr when most people have them because they're quiet. I'm sure they'd have a use, just like a .22 sub does now but with a little less power because of the bullet weight

[deadeye ive]

From all the reading I've been doing, a .22 is good to 100 yards. The HMR is ok to 200 at a push!

You'll realise that both calibres are'nt capable of consistant humane kills at those ranges .........alot of talk is often based on one off senario's .It's not the rifle by the way but the consistancy of the factory ammo that let's things down so to speak .

What's said on any forum and whats gos on in the field are twop entirely different worlds most times so try and take it like a pinch of salt

[dazzyboi]

HMR- Hornandy magnum rifle

 

 

There are indeed alot of factors which could decide on a humane kill, the bullet state, the wind conditions is a big factor for it being such a light round.

 

I noticed this as the club i goto...im firing into a mound, and behind the mound is the river severn, so as you could imaging its really really windy everytime i go there!

 

i have no doubt that a .17hmr can humainly kill a rabbit @ 200 yards given the energy still left in the bullet, but its upto the person behind the gun to decide weather or not its worth taking it in such conditions...

 

If its a calm summers day with no wind what so ever, i will be more confident taking 200 yard rabbits providing the scope is zero'd properly

[njc110381]

I know where Ive is coming from. The field very rarely gives you range conditions to shoot from, so these maximums are going to be pushing it a bit. I plan on using it out to 125 yards until I really get to know it, the trajectory is within an inch up or down between 25 and 125 yards so after that it's dropping fast. 2.5 inch holdover at 150, 5 inches at 175. It's all possible on the range, but in anything other than perfect conditions you'll be out a bit on the windage side of things by that distance. Just to add an extra, I swear it's HORNADY MAGNUM RIMFIRE! At least Hornady think so anyway

[dazzyboi]

I stand corrected

[hellier0437]

about .17 subs, correct me if i'm wrong, but would it not be possible to just pull the bullets out of a standard .17hmr cartridge, being carefull of cause, and remove some powder. This could be repeated many times, removing for example 1/2 a grain each time and firing the new round over a chrony untill the magic 1000fps was reached.

[Peter_HMR]

No chance of making a .17hmr bullet go subsonic its highly dangerous hornady im sure put a huge amount of researh and effort into developing this round and it is becoming extrememly popular. IMO it cant get much better.

 

They have a HM2 round which is a 22lr casing with a .17 bullet which still isnt subsonic if you start taking that bullet down bleow 1100fps and its only 17gr's weight its not going to be effect past more that 60yards or less even its not going to fire well out of a barrel desisned for 2550fps bullet which has a hast 1 in 12 twist it just wouldnt work.

 

The .17 is what it is and is a brilliant round between 25 and 125 there is effectively no drop +/- 1" which will kill pretty much anything.

 

As for it being safer than a .22 its not the round its the nut behind the gun .22lr will always have its place and will always be the most popular rimfire its just that cheap and accurate you cant go wrong.