HOW MUCH MARK UP IN SHOTGUN CARTRIDGES

[MC]

In other words the only way you can make money is to rip people off.

 

Why is it that everything goes up overnight and takes years to come down. Christ they have even started to load 21g to make cartridges look cheap.

 

If lead is at the lowest price for 10 years then cartridges should come down, none of the rubbish about stockpiling at last years prices, there isn't many shops that have the room to do that.

[clayman]

Thats funny, put lead prices into Google and the info is its up by 40% in the last year.

 

 

Lead prices have jumped almost 40% this year to this week’s record high of over $2,220 a tonne. And the poisonous metal – used mostly in batteries for vehicles, computers and fork-lift trucks and also in the glass and plastics industries – looks poised for further gains, says FAZ.net.

 

The International Lead and Zinc Study Group anticipates a supply deficit of around 50,000 tonnes of refined lead in 2007, marking a fifth successive annual shortfall, while stockpiles tracked by the London Metal Exchange have fallen by 55% over the past year to under 47,000 tonnes, little more than two days’ annual consumption, says Reuters.

 

Asia is the main consumer of lead, with China, as ever, leading the charge amid a rapid rise in demand for vehicles; Chinese demand will rise by 12.4% this year, reckons the IZLSG. Chinese lead exports have fallen as domestic demand has risen, and the recent news that China is to impose a 10% tax on lead exports has raised the prospect of even tighter global supplies. The market is worried that China is trying to throttle its lead exports, says William Adams of Basemetals.com. No wonder, then, that investment bank Calyon now expects lead prices to average $2,000 a tonne in the second quarter of 2007, as opposed to its earlier prediction of $1,300. Investors can spread bet on lead at IG Index

[Emmsy]

. And the poisonous metal – used mostly in batteries for vehicles, computers and fork-lift trucks and also in the glass and plastics industries

 

 

id love to know where all this lead in computers is ??

sounds like that news clipping is a year or 2 old anyway.

[bob300w]

Just as a matter of interest, those of us who bought cartridges at Bisley yesterday paid £7/100. We queried it, twice, and were told that it was the correct price. Before anybody brings it up, we were not allowed to buy them to take away, (we tried) they were 28g loads, they were made by Eley, and they were great cartridges.

[ShropshireJohn]

So, a few months on..

 

Have the carts come down much, or are the shops keeping them high to gain more profit ?

[mikee]

there must be some profit margin for reasonably priced shells, most shops around me sell RC1's for about £4.50 a box, was ringing round the other week and got several prices in the same £4.50 ball park but got one price of £5.30 and one of £3.80

 

mikee

[Andy W]

I wonder how much the manufacturer sells say 10,000 carts to the distributor who then sells on to the shops which we buy from, some time ago I contacted Victory in Cyprus trying to arrange a bulk buy of carts and they told me to contact their main distributor in Manchester who gave me a list of people who they supply to who would sell to me, so how much have they increased in price from distributor to retailer?

 

We need a network of "shooters Co Operatives" in the UK so we can buy say 50,000 carts and have pre paid for orders from shooters on pigeon watch for example, 50,000 carts could be distributed pretty quickly so long term storage wouldnt be an issue.

 

I wonder if manufacturers would be interested in dealing with us for those amounts?

[Vince Green]

Cartridge prices have barely altered in twenty years. Even forty years ago they were £1.25 a box for Hull Three Crowns and Eley was dearer than that. Compare that to wages or the price of petrol.

 

In his book Blackpowder Gunsmithing the author Ralph T Walker describes growing up in Montana USA in the 1920s. A mans wages were $1 a day and yet a box of 25 shotgun cartridges cost $1.50. A box of 50 .22 cartridges was 50 cents and a box of 20 rifle cartridges was over a dollar.

 

Imagine how you would get on with those equivilent prices today!!

[SPARKIE]

i was told not to bulk buy at the moment by my rfd.he recons there gonna drop. the price of everything to make them has gone down and the credit crunch nobody wants to go out and buy 1000s of carts.he recons we will start seeing letters in the big shooting mags asking why were being ripped off on ammo still.SPARKIE

[George1990]

If you can 250 for under £50 down South then it's a good price! RC Sipe 32g are £56 for 250 at the moment. £5.60 a box so 22p each! Clay carts are generally about £45 round this way. Lets hope the falling lead prices reflect on carts

[bjlfishing]

a mate of mine gets hull cartridge bin ends which could be any thing from 34 gram sterling game to 7/8 ths holland and holland light loads in a box of 250 at £32 per 250 which is the 30000 price they all go bang and do the job but i reckon that gun dealers are makingg a good % on cartridges as the price of lead has dropped as fast aif you dropped it yourself was around £1 a kilo 6 months ago its now around 25 pence a kilo so someone is making money on them dwn the line somewhere

[pair away]

i bought 1000 24g express HV at the weekend , and it cost me £157 , thats around £60 more than i was paying two years ago , every time i go into the shop there is another letter ( from express ) saying that the price increase is down to the london metal exchange ( demand etc ) as we have all read the price of lead has gone down ( lots ) and shock horror this time there was no letter , and the price had not gone down ( other than the vat ).

[SPARKIE]

If you can 250 for under £50 down South then it's a good price! RC Sipe 32g are £56 for 250 at the moment. £5.60 a box so 22p each! Clay carts are generally about £45 round this way. Lets hope the falling lead prices reflect on carts

 

 

i can get cheapo carts for clays at £32 for 250 and for pigeons £36 for 250 just that when i went he had none in so ended up with fiocchi 32gram 6s fibre wads at £44 for 250

[MC]

RFD's don't make any money out of cartridges they only sell them because they enjoy lumping heavy boxes around for the conveience of us, on the off chance that we might buy a bottle of oil as well when we go in there.

 

Enter stage left - - - - - - - - - - - Clayman.

[gunboot]

There is no profit in cartridges I buy 10,000 per month for our shooting ground its a 60 mile round trip by the time you have driven there loaded driven back off loaded half a day has gone. Then there is storage they take up a lot of room and it has to be secure then you get them out take them to point of sale whats unsold has to be carried back to storage. And all this to make 10p a box thats a £1 a case thats £4 thousand thats £40 per 10,000 it doesn't really cover the half day and 60 mile round trip to do it.

 

No there is no profit in cartridges!

 

Sid

[Andy W]

Gunboot, if you are buying say 10,000 eley firsts to resell to the members of a shoot at £132.80 per thousand = £1,328.00 per 10,000, you then sell at £4.00 for 25 = £160.00 per 1,000 = £1600.00 for the 10,000 even at £3.75 per 25 = £1500.00, so I make it between £172.00 and £272.00 for 1/2 days work each month x 12 months = £2064.00 or £3264.00 profit for 12 1/2 days, not bad going that.

 

Am I looking at this right?

Edited December 12, 2008 by Andy W

[pair away]

if its to do with money andy , im sure you are .

[Andy W]

if its to do with money andy , im sure you are .

If you and me bought 50,000 carts Tim I think we could make a few quid.

 

Paul text me tonight, he wants 750 carts, so we only need to get rid of another 49,250, soon be gone at this rate. :(

[gunboot]

Thanks for the Maths lesson Andy but in your workings you are looking at a mark up of 68 pence per box of 25! Not 10p a box! I want to encourage shooting specialy the young ones not put people off! If every one came to the shoot with their own cartridges that would be perfect, then we could get on with the task of just putting clays in the air! but they don't for what ever reason maybe they dont want to keep cartridges at home or its out of their way to go to a gun shop, so we have to provide cartridgges.

 

 

 

we only sell Hull and Gamebore starting at 3.60 a box.

 

No there is no profit in cartridges.

 

If you bought 50,000 thats 200 boxs you would need a lorry to transport them more expense!

 

Sid

[Andy W]

Your carts are cheap gunboot and nice to see that you are giving the shooter a good deal, you are indeed a rare breed, we were talking about cart prices this morning and one of our shoots which is a member only shoot were charging £5.00 for a box of eley firsts

 

I wonder if there is money in manufacturing cartridges.

[pair away]

Andy

 

49.250 to go !!!! well that should only take you two weeks at the rate you get through them .

[Andy W]

Andy

 

49,250 to go !!!! well that should only take you two weeks at the rate you get through them .

We should apply to be offical testers for Eley and Lyvale as we get through one or two crates. :look:

 

Simons not going tomorrow by the way, just the hardcore two again.

[ironduke]

I paid 6.70 for a box of Eley HF's from countrywide.....but as i couldnt be ***** to spend an hour going to my usual shop i swallowed my pride...

[ShropshireJohn]

Time for a bump me thinks

 

The price of metal dropped off a while back, yet cartridges are still quite highly priced.. Have they dropped yet?

[swift4me]

OK, I'll throw in here.. I've sold graphite fly rods, and I've sold shotgun shells. Lots of both. I'll take the fly rods any day.

 

What most of the guys here have said about margins is true. For me, in the US, and I imagine it's the same in the UK, any shooter who spends a few hours can buy the things for the true lowest cost possible, ie: manufacturer's quantity wholesale price plus whatever is involved in the physical movement of the shells.

 

Gun clubs around me, operating basically as co-ops, sold shells and reloading components at true cost. Walmart, all across America, sold quality ammuntion like Winchester AA, at or below most gun store's wholesale, (not counting freight), so what is a gun store to do?

 

You either figure that you'll price your shells relatively high, (20% margin), for the guy who shoots two boxes a year, and you can discount as you like to a guy who ACTUALLY buys from you, instead of just talking about it. If someone asked me for a pallet of shells, I could quote them the price and go from there.

 

Think about it boys.... what other item in your world is so open to the negotiation, bitching, complaining, etc. as cartridges. Just because you shoot alot of them doesn't change things. Does your wife do the same thing when buying diapers for three kids? Do you ask for some free green beans with your steak? Cheaper gas because you drive alot?

 

Just sit back and watch as you lose gun shop after gun shop, (it's happening in the US, and in the UK I imagine), because the average guy seeks the absolute best price for everything, then bitches when poor old Jimmy around the corner "... just couldn't pay the rent anymore...." or didn't have that special gun sling or decoy I wanted.

 

THANK THE DAMNED INTERNET WE'RE ALL LOOKING AT RIGHT NOW!

 

And somebody who bitches about a guy who makes 5% or even 10% in a retail margin on an item, needs to get a life, or sign on to his posts saying he is an employee of some company and doesn't really know where his paycheck comes from every other Friday.

 

And, oh yeah... the GREAT margin on shotguns... in the US, for many years, companies encouraged dealers to go WAY OUT on a limb and order a ton of guns in November, then pay for them the following September. Browning, Benelli, Beretta, all of them. The Italians wised up after getting stiffed enough times. Browning still does it, but keeps a close eye.

 

This way, stores would sell some guns at a good margin, and as the owner looked at the huge invoice in July, he'd start dumping guns at or below cost to come up with the money. Good for the consumer in the short run, but not so great for the big picture. If I sold a Benelli or Beretta at full retail price, I would have a 25% margin. Basically I was buying a gun for $1,000 hoping to sell it before the bill was due, for roughly $1,250- $1,300. Nobody sold these guns at full retail. I was surrounded by dealers selling them for $100 over wholesale. This drastically changed the ski/backpacking/bike industries in the world. Small dealers, many whom offered great service were not able to compete.

 

Big dealers only get 2 to 3 % better pricing than small dealers on new guns, with very few exceptions. You do the math.

 

Buy the damn shells from somebody you like, quit bitching because somebody made a buck or two, and then go shoot them. Pretty simple.

 

Pete