rbrowning2 Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 Amen to that then. Happy new year to one and all and may we all shoot some nice large bags of pigeon in 2016. Rb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitebridges Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 Do you mean Archie Coats Stevo? I thought Archie swore by 1 1/16 of No 7 in his latter years converting from 1 1/16 of No 6. So budding apprentice Will didn't listen to the master Archie did he? I guess we're all a bit different you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wj939 Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 The point is not it can't be done, but why when you will wound more birds than necessary? Based on all the above my guess is: A. You probably over estimate your ranges B.You hit and wound far more than you realise C. Spend more time on pigeonwatch talking about all the pigeons and game you've shot than actually shooting. No one thinks oh if I had 4's not 5.5's I'd hit that, but plenty think I've hit that, it's not down. We've all killed things a lot further away than our loads/gear would normally be thought capable of, but in trying I bet we've clipped a hell of a lot more. All the best and good shooting to all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevo Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 Do you mean Archie Coats Stevo? I thought Archie swore by 1 1/16 of No 7 in his latter years converting from 1 1/16 of No 6. So budding apprentice Will didn't listen to the master Archie did he? I guess we're all a bit different you know. I thought that also , sure I read he moved onto eley vip in 7s later on in life , Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevo Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 i think its more of a case of know your limits , i cant speak for anyone else , BUT i do know what i can and cant do . we are all differnt and all have differnt abilities , either way I have really enjoyed this thread , its nice to have a healthy debate . atb stevo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitebridges Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 (edited) I thought that also , sure I read he moved onto eley vip in 7s later on in life , OK, I hadn't seen that one. The VIP is a lot different to Archies preferred Eley Grand Prix don't you think? I can't recall they ever made a VIP in a No 7. Edited December 31, 2015 by Whitebridges Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevo Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 OK, I hadn't seen that one. The VIP is a lot different to Archies preferred Eley Grand Prix don't you think? blooming hell , sorry that's the one I meant , I have just been reading an article on the VIP , I'm toying with the idea of getting some Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Rabbit Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 Will Garfit may well recommend 7.5's but he currently uses Gamebore Velocity. They're actually 7's! The majority of my decoying is Jackdaws and having used every load from 30gm 7's to 36gm 4's the 7's gave the best kills by a country mile. Cost isn't an issue for me. I always used 32gm 5's but was astonished at how well 7's performed. I now use 28gm 7's for all decoying and bread and butter game. I'd use 30gm but they're hard to find. I still use 5's but only when better penetration is needed ie.walked up game,but I know its at the expense of a better pattern. Well known UK 7 shot user's include Will Garfit,Phillip Russell and the late John Humphreys and Archie Coates. They'll have shot hundreds of thousands of pigeons between them and I'm sure they could afford game loads if they were needed! If all the lads using continental clay loads (UK 7's) used Eley Impax 7's (basically the same load but labeled as a game cartridge). No one would bat an eyelid! WR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevo Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 Will Garfit may well recommend 7.5's but he currently uses Gamebore Velocity. They're actually 7's! The majority of my decoying is Jackdaws and having used every load from 30gm 7's to 36gm 4's the 7's gave the best kills by a country mile. Cost isn't an issue for me. I always used 32gm 5's but was astonished at how well 7's performed. I now use 28gm 7's for all decoying and bread and butter game. I'd use 30gm but they're hard to find. I still use 5's but only when better penetration is needed ie.walked up game,but I know its at the expense of a better pattern. Well known UK 7 shot user's include Will Garfit,Phillip Russell and the late John Humphreys and Archie Coates. They'll have shot hundreds of thousands of pigeons between them and I'm sure they could afford game loads if they were needed! If all the lads using continental clay loads (UK 7's) used Eley Impax 7's (basically the same load but labeled as a game cartridge). No one would bat an eyelid! WR Bang on !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 well i have just dug this quote from Will Garfits latest/last book on pigeon shooting , for those that dont know of him , hes one of the "greats " in the world of pigeon shooting and Archi cotes's apprentice . What about a gun for pigeon shooting? And cartridges? Here I would advise you to take any gun in which you have confidence and which is a good fit. That could be an over-under, side-by-side or semi-automatic. My favourite cartridge for pigeon shooting is the 28gram No.7½ shot, which kills longer birds well, as it produces a dense pattern of shot. This more than compensates for the reduction in penetration with the smaller shot size. The woodpigeon is a small bird with light feathers and is killed cleanly if hit by the dense pattern of No.7½ shot. The important thing is to concentrate on where you put the shot – you won’t kill if you miss, whatever cartridge you are using. and hes on about English 7.5's , the same as Archi cotes used . not the 7s were on about so as far as I'm concerned ............... enough said Mr Garfitt seems to know what he's on about. Peter Theobald told me that he is the best pigeon shot he has seen. Also, late last year I was on a pheasant day with Will and I didn't see him miss a single bird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 We were talking about 7 1/2s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 We were talking about 7 1/2s Yup But at what speed, 1100-1200-1300-1400fps? The latter having near 1/3rd more energy applied to it than the first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevo Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 We were talking about 7 1/2s well we weren't , were on about English 7s or Italian 7.5s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 The people that say 7.5 shot isn't suitable for live quarry, are either poor shots or have not used that sized shot. I have killed many things with a humble ounce of 7.5. well we weren't , were on about English 7s or Italian 7.5s We were talking about 7.5 clay shells. This got turned into English 7s to try and make the case for them whereas the point being made was they were used on price alone and if all shells cost the same larger shot would be used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevo Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 (edited) We were talking about 7.5 clay shells. This got turned into English 7s to try and make the case for them whereas the point being made was they were used on price alone and if all shells cost the same larger shot would be used. no we was not , the shells we were on about that we use are 7.5 Italian , English 7s ( 2.4mm) Edited December 31, 2015 by stevo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 no we was not , the shells we were on about that we use are 7.5 Italian , English 7s ( 2.4mm) We were talking about 7.5s in the first instance, cheap trap shells based on price. You use what you like. I load all my shells so cost isn't an issue and there's no way I shall be using 7.5 shot for shooting birds. 6s for standard shells and 5s for subs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 (edited) I have shot 1000s of pigeon with 7.5 / 7 , shot 1000s with 6s too and I am dammed if I can tell the difference , and I would guess if the ones on here were to shoot cartridges that had no size printed on them then they would not be able to tell the difference either . There is no point at all bemoaning someone elses choice / recommendation when their choice clearly works , I have shot pigeon with motty on more than enough occasions now to know his choice of cartridge is very effective and if it is effective then its good enough end of story . No one is forcing anyone to use a particular size so use what you are happy with that does not make you right and someone else wrong. Edited December 31, 2015 by fenboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevo Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 We were talking about 7.5s in the first instance, cheap trap shells based on price. You use what you like. I load all my shells so cost isn't an issue and there's no way I shall be using 7.5 shot for shooting birds. 6s for standard shells and 5s for subs. that's fine , no one is asking you to change anything , if you happy with what your using then crack on , I would only ever recommend that people use what they have confidence in . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 I have shot 1000s of pigeon with 7.5 / 7 , shot 1000s with 6s too and I am dammed if I can tell the difference , and I would guess if the ones on here were to shoot cartridges that had no size printed on them then they would not be able to tell the difference either . There is no point at all bemoaning someone elses choice / recommendation when their choice clearly works , I have shot pigeon with motty on more than enough occasions now to know his choice of cartridge is very effective and if it is effective then its good enough end of story . No one is forcing anyone to use a particular size so use what you are happy with that does not make you right and someone else wrong. I couldn't have put it better, myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDog Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 I couldn't have put it better, myself. Oh yes you could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 So in answer to the OP's thread asking what is the best thing to use for roost shooting with a 20 gauge the answer is 24grams of 7.5 shot? Right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevo Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 So in answer to the OP's thread asking what is the best thing to use for roost shooting with a 20 gauge the answer is 24grams of 7.5 shot? Right Italian ................. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 So in answer to the OP's thread asking what is the best thing to use for roost shooting with a 20 gauge the answer is 24grams of 7.5 shot? Right Should be fine , more pellets so more pattern after they have gone through the branches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 Good time to draw this to a close Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 It is a good job that I am too thick to take in all of this stuff about shot sizes, chokes and cartridges weights. "Now listen very carefully, I will say this only once" ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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