poontang Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 As far as I am concerned it isn't whether a dog can kill that is important here, but the relative chances of different breeds to be killers. Anecdotally it appears that Yorkies and the like are less likely, by a very large margin, to kill than bull terriers. Is of course the correct answer. Any creature with sharp teeth, claws or talons, given the right circumstances can kill, after all that's what teeth, claws and talons are designed for. Back in the real world the fact remains that a large, powerful dog with a predisposition to protect/attack will cause significantly more damage than the average lap dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 My view is that breed specific legislation is pointless, what matters is the person who owns the dog, there was a case in my area some years ago where a pair of jack Russell's killed a child. I would be all for licencing dog owners, but banning a specific breed of dog does no more good than banning shotguns that can hold more than 2 carts in the mag or semi auto centre fire.I find it highly Hippocratic that liscenced gun owners want to curtail other people's hobbies yet are the same people who get upset when further restrictions on firearm ownership is mentioned. It is this mentally that in my humble opinion is destroying the enjoyment in this country, everyone has an opinion and the government ends up taking the cautious route and ends up banning things with only the minority left to defend there sport/hobbie. I feel unfortunately shooting is in the long run doomed in this country especially when inderviduals who partake in a highly regulated minority sport like shooting are advocating banning other people's enjoyment. Human nature I suppose people just don't care and have no tolerance of other people inless it directly affects them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 Browning 425 clay hunter - you mentioned Yorkies. The minute proof is produced - you shift to all dogs. Now retiring form a thread. Toys / pram - you know when you are out of your depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browning 425 clay hunter Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 I highly doubt a Yorkie, pug or so on could kill someone. ATB 425 These were my exact words Gordon, that's why I've quoted myself. If you read the sentence the point I'm making is the same one from start to finish in all my posts on this subject ,NOT ALL DOGS can kill. You've picked one of the 3 examples I've give and think that's it's game over. The point I made was NOT every dog. You've proved that ONE breed has. Not all. I think you've got a bit excited in the furore and wet your pants a bit premature. I've been watching you troll on here for 3 years now but I think your starting to loose your touch at it. ATB 425 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr D Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 (edited) My view is that breed specific legislation is pointless, what matters is the person who owns the dog, there was a case in my area some years ago where a pair of jack Russell's killed a child. I would be all for licencing dog owners, but banning a specific breed of dog does no more good than banning shotguns that can hold more than 2 carts in the mag or semi auto centre fire.I find it highly Hippocratic that liscenced gun owners want to curtail other people's hobbies yet are the same people who get upset when further restrictions on firearm ownership is mentioned. It is this mentally that in my humble opinion is destroying the enjoyment in this country, everyone has an opinion and the government ends up taking the cautious route and ends up banning things with only the minority left to defend there sport/hobbie. I feel unfortunately shooting is in the long run doomed in this country especially when inderviduals who partake in a highly regulated minority sport like shooting are advocating banning other people's enjoyment. Human nature I suppose people just don't care and have no tolerance of other people inless it directly affects them.We should all be tolerant. Agreed. I may or may not like guns, but I should tolerate their ownership subject to reasonable restrictions. I may not like dogs, but I should tolerate their ownership subject to reasonable restrictions. The question to be answered is where to draw the line. Owning dogs selectively bred to fight and kill? Owning guns whose primary purpose is to kill people (ie an automatic high calibre weapon, not a 12g)? No one has said ban dogs. Some people have said totally ban guns. The first is reasonable, even if you agree or disagree with the proposition. We might question the proportionality of the latter. Hunting and shooting should be regulated, so should dog ownership. Edited January 3, 2016 by Dr D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sp1richy Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 I think the main difference with different breeds is actually the way they bite as apose to the breed. For example a Labrador would bite and let go whereas a pitbull would keep hold thus causing more damage. My dog has been attacked 4 times, twice by a Jack Russell once by a springer, and once by a Labrador. The owner of the lab actually turned to me and said "he always does this drives me mad". All above dogs was off the lead in a public area which for me all comes down to one thing. Responsibility. No matter what dog you have if you ain't responsible, mistreat it and neglect it, it will misbehave. In my opinion you can also apply the above to children in a lot of circumstances (some may think that's extreme). For anyone interested my dog is a dogue de Bordeaux, if you are not firmiliar have a quick look on google and them imagine him being attacked by above dogs, and to think he simply stood there looking at me wondering what to do. Don't get me wrong if he retaliated it would have been messy but why didn't he? Because the way he has been brought up. I am strongly against banning certain breeds however I think I welcome the idea of people needing a licence to own and/or breed dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wasabi Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 Browning 425 clay hunter - you mentioned Yorkies. The minute proof is produced - you shift to all dogs. Now retiring form a thread. Toys / pram - you know when you are out of your depth. Get real mate. Are you for one minute suggesting a Yorkies is as dangerous as a Pit Bull, Akita or Rottie? REALLY? You tout yourself as an expert in this field and as a responsible owner of large dogs. I asked you how you would hope to control your dog should it attack someone. The reason I asked is because when a large dog, bred for its aggressive tendancies, attacks someone there is very little anyone can do short of killing it. So Gordon R, let's say one of your Akitas attacked a jogger, as happened to my friend. How would you stop it inflicting horrific wounds? Come on, get your toys back in the pram and answer a serious question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 I really don't get the "any dog can kill" rubbish. I've been unfortunate enough to see an Akita attack a grown man. Dogs such as Pit Bulls and Akitas have been bred for their aggressive traits. When they attack it is merciless. Due to their power they are very difficult to defend against. I know if I had the choice of being attacked by a pit bull or a labrador I know which one I would choose. You do not really want to see how hard a lab can bite when it does No sorry this is mostly a people problem Those that breed without proper attention to Temperament and those that don't have a proper grip on how to raise or handle a dog Dogs with bad reputations attract numpty owners I bet the border collie is still in the top three biters because some fools think they train themselves and make great pets because of that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royboy Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 It's a fear of mine when I take my dogs out because once my lab was chases by a staff but thankfully managed to get away. God knows what would of happened if it got hold of my lab. What could you do if another dog had hold of your dog ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjh Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 (edited) Killer dog I will leave the thread at this point. It has become another silly generalised attack on certain dog breeds. When posters are proved wrong, the goalposts shift. If anyone believes a dog couldn't kill, I trust that they never have cause to regret their ignorance. I pity them. what a load of tosh most dogs dont kill this is just the usual apologists who have dangerous dog and try to muddy the water by blaming all dogs, its a simple fact certain breeds we all know what they are should be banned Edited January 3, 2016 by chrisjh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckyshot Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 Get real mate. Are you for one minute suggesting a Yorkies is as dangerous as a Pit Bull, Akita or Rottie? REALLY? You tout yourself as an expert in this field and as a responsible owner of large dogs. I asked you how you would hope to control your dog should it attack someone. The reason I asked is because when a large dog, bred for its aggressive tendancies, attacks someone there is very little anyone can do short of killing it. So Gordon R, let's say one of your Akitas attacked a jogger, as happened to my friend. How would you stop it inflicting horrific wounds? Come on, get your toys back in the pram and answer a serious question. Seen as ho Gordon doesn't own an Akita anymore and I do Ile answer it for him. As im a responsible dog owner my Akita will not attack a passing jogger unlike the many terriers in my village that will chase anything that moves. My Akita used to be aloud off the leader but since every little dog goes for him he now has to stay on a leader at all times as vets bills are very expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STOTTO Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 Well here's is an idea, let’s all trade in our nasty guns, nasty dogs and our set of functioning nuts and then we can all meet up at the, ‘defanged eunuch’s poodle parlour‘, where under strict government supervision we can compare our deactivated rubber pop-guns in total safety, if indeed we our allowed such things! Any takers, because there sure as hell seems to be a lot of givers?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 Dr D I do agree re regulation however breed specific legislation is pointless, as usual it is the law abiding who suffer, I have no desire to own any of the breeds on the banned list however I have no issue with anyone responsible who does. I don't know where you stand on firearms licencing however if someone wants to go on the rampage with a firearm/knife/car etc they will and banning this or that type of specific firearm will not stop it, pitbulls were bred to fight dogs not people, rotties where bred to herd cattle, GSDs look after sheep, Doberman to protect a tax collector, some of the behaviours that terrier were bred for can make them want to chase children in particular and are more than capable of doing them harm however it's the upbringing that counts don't even get me started on scrotes who cross breed with pits making it very hard to determine if the dog is is not a pit type breed, the statment is true all dogs can kill but unless you want to ban all dogs breed specific legislation does not work, government and police will tell you it doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr D Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 (edited) It's a killer! You can tell. Look those eyes. Mmmmm. Ankles. That's what he thinking. Edited January 3, 2016 by Dr D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 Well here's is an idea, lets all trade in our nasty guns, nasty dogs and our set of functioning nuts and then we can all meet up at the, defanged eunuchs poodle parlour, where under strict government supervision we can compare our deactivated rubber pop-guns in total safety, if indeed we our allowed such things! Any takers, because there sure as hell seems to be a lot of givers?? Couldn't put it better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 Killer dog what a load of tosh most dogs dont kill this is just the usual apologists who have dangerous dog and try to muddy the water by blaming all dogs, its a simple fact certain breeds we all know what they are should be banned Load of rubbish, I wonder how you would feel if they turned up for your guns because of some antis bigoted views Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr D Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 (edited) Dr D I do agree re regulation however breed specific legislation is pointless, as usual it is the law abiding who suffer, I have no desire to own any of the breeds on the banned list however I have no issue with anyone responsible who does. I don't know where you stand on firearms licencing however if someone wants to go on the rampage with a firearm/knife/car etc they will and banning this or that type of specific firearm will not stop it, pitbulls were bred to fight dogs not people, rotties where bred to herd cattle, GSDs look after sheep, Doberman to protect a tax collector, some of the behaviours that terrier were bred for can make them want to chase children in particular and are more than capable of doing them harm however it's the upbringing that counts don't even get me started on scrotes who cross breed with pits making it very hard to determine if the dog is is not a pit type breed, the statment is true all dogs can kill but unless you want to ban all dogs breed specific legislation does not work, government and police will tell you it doesn't. Well I agree, with that! Rubbish law. I just dont buy the logic though. Look at what those breeds you mention were designed to do. Protect. I really think you ought to have good reason to have one. Namely, to do the job they were designed for. Edited January 3, 2016 by Dr D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 Rotties were not bred to protect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckyshot Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 Well I agree, with that! Rubbish law. I just dont buy the logic though. Look at what those breeds you mention were designed to do. Protect. I really think you ought to have good reason to have one. Namely, to do the job they were designed for. Why do you think most of us genuine owners have such a dog. I have mine as his loud bark let's people know there is a dog on the premises and he hears the slightest noise letting me know someone is there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendrix's rifle Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 Why do you think most of us genuine owners have such a dog. I have mine as his loud bark let's people know there is a dog on the premises and he hears the slightest noise letting me know someone is there. I have 2 gsd's to stop scrotes trying to jump my back gate. My back door is never locked and always open yet no body comes in. I can trust my dogs off the lead, on the lead and if another dog Attacks one of them I can trust them to sit there and not retaliate. IF THEY DO RETALIATE it will be under my command and the only time i have let them is when the other owner could not get their dog under control and found it funny. A quick snap and it was quickly resolved. I let the Mrs walk them on her own through town and I know she will never have an issue due to there protection training. (been trained by myself)they have a job to do and that is to protect. That's part of what they were bred for hence why I own them. As for any dog can kill, under given circumstances any dog can kill. The issue here however is scrotes with dogs that are bred to kill. The person in question was actually injecting his dog with steroids. A girl I know who does rescue work had issues with him previously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr D Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 Ok. So, I have given a little thought this and the arguments from the owners, including the 'any dog could do it' and the 'its the owners not the dogs' lines. So, if I was in charge here is what I would do. I would repeal the dangerous dogs act and replace it with legislation that required all dogs to be muzzled in public. I would including exemptions for working dogs, but require a defence of reasonable justification if the owner was prosecuted. Now remember, this would be for all dogs!!!! I do think however, certain breeds may need a further restriction placed upon their owners in private settings. Specifically, when children and vulnerable adults are present. Again, I would nt rush to ban ownership of any breed in those circumstances, but safeguards would be needed. I would impose an automatic fixed penalty for any breech to be recorded on a dog licence, exactly the same as a drivers licence. And a disqualification from ownership after a number of violations. What do think? Only some elements are breed specific and the playing field is as close to levelled as possible. We could then determine which breeds are affected through national statistics and this could change over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 Load of rubbish, I wonder how you would feel if they turned up for your guns because of some antis bigoted views I'm not sure what guns and dogs have in common. My guns don't have a brain, nor do they, or can they react on instinct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted January 3, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 My this is turning into a long one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendrix's rifle Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 Ok. So, I have given a little thought this and the arguments from the owners, including the 'any dog could do it' and the 'its the owners not the dogs' lines. So, if I was in charge here is what I would do. I would repeal the dangerous dogs act and replace it with legislation that required all dogs to be muzzled in public. I would including exemptions for working dogs, but require a defence of reasonable justification if the owner was prosecuted. Now remember, this would be for all dogs!!!! I do think however, certain breeds may need a further restriction placed upon their owners in private settings. Specifically, when children and vulnerable adults are present. Again, I would nt rush to ban ownership of any breed in those circumstances, but safeguards would be needed. I would impose an automatic fixed penalty for any breech to be recorded on a dog licence, exactly the same as a drivers licence. And a disqualification from ownership after a number of violations. What do think? Only some elements are breed specific and the playing field is as close to levelled as possible. We could then determine which breeds are affected through national statistics and this could change over time. Only issue with this is the government would charge an arm and a leg for a 'Licence' and the people owning these dogs would own them illegally anyway :L other than that I like the idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 To the numpty who asked how I controlled large dogs - I went to training classes, spent years teaching them obedience and kept them on a lead. Sadly, other owners let their dogs off the lead - accompanied by that truly pathetic excuse - "he's never attacked another dog before" - which is always true until the first time. Browning 425 clay hunter - For a "man" who follows trolling - you do okay yourself. Bluntly, you aren't intelligent enough to have a debate with. Somewhere a village is missing their idiot. I will point them in your direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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