davids3511 Posted February 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 Personally i think he should try to learn left handed. Hes actively trying to not use the (slightly) better seeing and dominant eye. That must eventually handicap him. I understand his reasons not to though, hes not interested in being an international shooter. He just fancies the odd conpetition at b or c class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdSolomons Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 As stated eye strength and dominance are two very different things. It is very possible that the master eye can be the optically weaker one. Dominance can change throughout the day with physical/mental tiredness, hydration levels and other physical and environmental factors. What makes diagnosis impossible over the Internet is the number of variables in place- a great solution for one may have no effect on an apparently identical student. Visual issue are complex and rarely understood- there are a load of old wives tales that tend to get regurgitated which only adds to confusion. This is why I personally work with Ed Lyons who is the only person who I have come across who works specifically with shooters and understands their needs. Now we work together with may joint students/patients and can happily say the results have spoken for themselves! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakerboy Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 As stated eye strength and dominance are two very different things. It is very possible that the master eye can be the optically weaker one. Dominance can change throughout the day with physical/mental tiredness, hydration levels and other physical and environmental factors. What makes diagnosis impossible over the Internet is the number of variables in place- a great solution for one may have no effect on an apparently identical student. Visual issue are complex and rarely understood- there are a load of old wives tales that tend to get regurgitated which only adds to confusion. This is why I personally work with Ed Lyons who is the only person who I have come across who works specifically with shooters and understands their needs. Now we work together with may joint students/patients and can happily say the results have spoken for themselves! Hi Ed, good to hear from you. Wise words from a man that's knows. Look forward to seeing you again before to long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdSolomons Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 Am taking 2 customers round AGlfriday morning may see you then mate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westward Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 So is the dominant eye the strongest eye? It's stronger neurologically but not necessarily optically stronger. The same can happen with handedness, I've had a couple of sessions of physio for my right knee and the therapist found that my left leg is actually stronger even though I'm totally right handed and right footed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilR Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 So is the dominant eye the strongest eye? No. I'm left handed with a left master eye. My left eye is weaker than my right. Eye dominance as already said is a brain function, nothing to do with eye sight strength. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilR Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 You may have to show me the thumb technique when I pop down I'll show you tomorrow 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingo15 Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 I'll show you tomorrow 👍 Not whilst I'm driving thou mate please haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenlivet Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 It's stronger neurologically but not necessarily optically stronger. The same can happen with handedness, I've had a couple of sessions of physio for my right knee and the therapist found that my left leg is actually stronger even though I'm totally right handed and right footed. If you think about it, the left leg does all the hard work. If you kick a ball the left leg takes the strain and when you jump (for me anyway) you jump using the left leg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakerboy Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 No. I'm left handed with a left master eye. My left eye is weaker than my right. Eye dominance as already said is a brain function, nothing to do with eye sight strength. Exactly what I have said . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
100milesaway Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 I am almost blind in my right eye which is now also got the starting of a cataract but it is still my dominent eye.... from Auntie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakerboy Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 Eye dominance is a fascinating subject that will never have a definitive answer. For me this thread has been really interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilR Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 Exactly what I have said . I think not Terry. Your question was 'So is the dominant eye the strongest eye?' I was pointing out that my left eye is dominant and the weakest, so not exactly as you said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakerboy Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 (edited) I think not Terry. Your question was 'So is the dominant eye the strongest eye?' I was pointing out that my left eye is dominant and the weakest, so not exactly as you said. This is what I said. It is my experience with Opticians, that they perceive the Dominant Eye to be the strongest eye, this is not always the case. The Dominant Eye is the Eye that sees the object first. You have said that the Coach also agreed that the Left Eye was the dominant Eye, for me I would like to see the degree of Dominance, totally left eye dominant? creeping towards the nose so slightly left eye dominant etc. A good Coach would sort this out before the first shot is fired. I am not knocking the Coach you have used, as I have said earlier, many of us have experience, remedies and advice, but it can only really be sorted face to face. Good luck to your son I hope he gets sorted quickly and affectively. x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x- But as we are now going off track and possibly bickering between ourselves, I will say no more. Edited February 23, 2016 by bakerboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 There is some reason to think that eye dominance can alter with age when people's lifestyles change and they spend more time watching TV for example, but it certainly doesn't swtch back and forth. It certainly can switch back and forth as ES pointed it can on certain day with tiredness etc. However for some of us it's a constant issue as it switches regularly, for me as a result of an injury. It's unusual but never say never. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westward Posted February 23, 2016 Report Share Posted February 23, 2016 It certainly can switch back and forth as ES pointed it can on certain day with tiredness etc. However for some of us it's a constant issue as it switches regularly, for me as a result of an injury. It's unusual but never say never. Fatigue, injury, illness, hangovers and migraines often negatively affect vision. These things can reduce neural activity and thereby alter the control and responses of the muscles that are used for focussing and pupil dilation as well as eyeball position and shape. Which in turn can affect focussing and also a type of temporary or altered astigmatism. But in normal circumstances dominance doesn't switch around, although partially obstructed or occluded vision of the dominant eye can result in it seeming to change because the 'off' eye tries to take over the lead role. I would repeat that the dominant eye is not necessarily the one that sees the clay first. The dominant eye is the one that the brain uses primarily to combine with the body muscles to move the instrument to where the brain wants it placed. Be that a shotgun, rifle, pistol, bow, dart or snooker cue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsonicnat Posted February 23, 2016 Report Share Posted February 23, 2016 (edited) Now you have spoken of Snooker,Look at the likes of ,Robertson,O'Sullivan,Trump..etc They can come out all guns blazing,but sometime during the match,something changes very quickly. Be it hand and eye coordination,or just cue action,it still amounts to what the players see' in what are very short ranges. And it happens quite quickly,even halfway through a game. And importantly CONCENTRATION.!!!. As bakerboy so aptly puts it,, it is a mine field.. Edited February 23, 2016 by subsonicnat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munger Posted February 23, 2016 Report Share Posted February 23, 2016 I'd consider looking into an easy hit bead for eye dominance issues. Takes a day or so of practice to get used to, but I can now shoot left-handed or right handed with both eyes open (I'm ambidextrous with a left master eye). It's probably not a solution for everyone as I found it took perseverance to keep my eyes open on the range and allow my brain to relearn certain things - but I couldn't be happier now. Not a huge cost either if it doesn't work. There are other similar solutions (Ruby fibre optic) that do exactly the same thing too. My advice would be to get the longer one as the short one's still allow light into the non-rib sighting eye in my experience, where the longer ones don't. Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted February 23, 2016 Report Share Posted February 23, 2016 to where the brain wants it placed. That's the rub, getting the brain to know where that is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davids3511 Posted February 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2016 (edited) This is what I said. It is my experience with Opticians, that they perceive the Dominant Eye to be the strongest eye, this is not always the case. The Dominant Eye is the Eye that sees the object first. You have said that the Coach also agreed that the Left Eye was the dominant Eye, for me I would like to see the degree of Dominance, totally left eye dominant? creeping towards the nose so slightly left eye dominant etc. A good Coach would sort this out before the first shot is fired. I am not knocking the Coach you have used, as I have said earlier, many of us have experience, remedies and advice, but it can only really be sorted face to face. Good luck to your son I hope he gets sorted quickly and affectively. x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x- But as we are now going off track and possibly bickering between ourselves, I will say no more. I don't know how left eyed he is. You are correct in that it is his stronger eye but only fractionally. The optician knew he was in to be tested with regards to shooting problems and specifically suggested it could well be because of his eye dominance but he didn't give any idea of how dominant the eye was. I know the coach was initially leaning towards shooting left handed but after a round with David he said he was hoping David would stick right handed. David says he sees two barrels when shooting left handed with both eyes open which is one of the things he is struggling with, he doesn't know which sight to use or rib to look down. I know it sounds mad but there it is. I'm not an experience shooter so I can only be of so much help to him. The coach did suggest putting a mid barrel bead on the gun, just to get him used to lining the sights and barrel up properly. I appreciate people have different ideas and opinions, I'm reading them all and am grateful so many are trying to help even if everyone doesn't agree with each other. I'd consider looking into an easy hit bead for eye dominance issues. Takes a day or so of practice to get used to, but I can now shoot left-handed or right handed with both eyes open (I'm ambidextrous with a left master eye). It's probably not a solution for everyone as I found it took perseverance to keep my eyes open on the range and allow my brain to relearn certain things - but I couldn't be happier now. Not a huge cost either if it doesn't work. There are other similar solutions (Ruby fibre optic) that do exactly the same thing too. My advice would be to get the longer one as the short one's still allow light into the non-rib sighting eye in my experience, where the longer ones don't. Hope this helps. I'm seriously thinking of this, it's not a lot of cash and might fix things for him. Edited February 23, 2016 by davids3511 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted February 23, 2016 Report Share Posted February 23, 2016 How about pausing and putting this into perspective. A 14 year old lad has been shooting for two months and albeit with a problem can hit 40 out of 50 clays. In pigeon shooting terms that's 4 for 5. Hands up all those who can do that. It might just pay to make haste slowly and thus avoid putting him into overload which can easily end up as a disaster. My suggestion would be to stick a comb raiser of the same height as the cardboard onto his gun, position a patch on his glasses which is just big enough to blank out most of the barrels including the muzzle when the gun comes into his shoulder (not forgetting the overhead) and let him enjoy himself. While doing so he could practice his mount - picked bird, muzzle and eye in a straight line and pushing with the leading hand (bayoneting) to keep the barrels on the bird ready for when the gun comes into the shoulder. Let him settle down for a couple of months, practice what he's already learned from the instructor and see how he gets on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdSolomons Posted February 23, 2016 Report Share Posted February 23, 2016 The "seeing two barrels" thing is normal with any two eyed shooter. It shows his focus is out at the target. If he only saw one, he would be looking at the gun and losing focus of the clay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted February 23, 2016 Report Share Posted February 23, 2016 After reading all of this, and seeing that the lad would be happy enough to shoot in a B or C class competition, why are you worrying this much about eye dominance? He seems to be getting reasonable scores for a beginner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wb123 Posted February 23, 2016 Report Share Posted February 23, 2016 Im left eye dominant and right handed. Within four clays changing to the left shoulder felt much much better, even with a right hand cast gun. The problem is the scarcity of left handed guns though. The last three shops i went to looked at me like i had been beamed down from a flying portaloo when i asked if they had anything left handed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davids3511 Posted February 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 (edited) How about pausing and putting this into perspective. A 14 year old lad has been shooting for two months and albeit with a problem can hit 40 out of 50 clays. In pigeon shooting terms that's 4 for 5. Hands up all those who can do that. It might just pay to make haste slowly and thus avoid putting him into overload which can easily end up as a disaster. My suggestion would be to stick a comb raiser of the same height as the cardboard onto his gun, position a patch on his glasses which is just big enough to blank out most of the barrels including the muzzle when the gun comes into his shoulder (not forgetting the overhead) and let him enjoy himself. While doing so he could practice his mount - picked bird, muzzle and eye in a straight line and pushing with the leading hand (bayoneting) to keep the barrels on the bird ready for when the gun comes into the shoulder. Let him settle down for a couple of months, practice what he's already learned from the instructor and see how he gets on. The 40 out of 50 was on the practice stands in Manchester. They were coming in and goingaway birds, no crossers. I picked the easier stands as I thought his confidence had taken a hit. Edited February 24, 2016 by davids3511 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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