winnie&bezza Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 Seems we have some actual penetration issues with a couple of members. Does anyone have all three FAC .22 .25 and .177 to do a rabbit penetration test? That poor poor rabbit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evo Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 That poor poor rabbit. its ok,,,,, he missed :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 Cheap 22 Cheap 177. Cheap 177, complete pass through. In fact the pellet is visible in the tree. Cheap 25. And just for Mr evo a dolly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winnie&bezza Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 (edited) its ok,,,,, he missed :lol: lol Edited March 28, 2016 by winnie&bezza Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winnie&bezza Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 Nice knife throwing skills on that woody UD but is it because of the over penetration you had to resort to it :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam1e Posted March 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 I've not be able to check for more updates until now. And for a second there I thought I had a whole page of further information to help me. But alas, it was just 2 people arguing over a calibre I've not even asked advice about. Although Hawke chair gun pro has shown what a "loopy" trajectory .25 has.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winnie&bezza Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 I've not be able to check for more updates until now. And for a second there I thought I had a whole page of further information to help me. But alas, it was just 2 people arguing over a calibre I've not even asked advice about. Although Hawke chair gun pro has shown what a "loopy" trajectory .25 has.... Go for the .22 mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zetter Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 (edited) I've not be able to check for more updates until now. And for a second there I thought I had a whole page of further information to help me. But alas, it was just 2 people arguing over a calibre I've not even asked advice about. Although Hawke chair gun pro has shown what a "loopy" trajectory .25 has.... Jamie What power were you assuming through chairgun with the .25 was it about 45 ish or were you running it at 30-35? With something running at about 47 ft/lb with JSB Kings in .25 with a zero of 44 yards you are getting a pbr of 12-50 yards Edited March 28, 2016 by Zetter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONY R Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 Cheap 22 <script pagespeed_no_defer="">//=d.offsetWidth&&0>=d.offsetHeight)a=!1;else{c=d.getBoundingClientRect();var f=document.body;a=c.top+("pageYOffset"in window?window.pageYOffset:(document.documentElement||f.parentNode||f).scrollTop);c=c.left+("pageXOffset"in window?window.pageXOffset:(document.documentElement||f.parentNode||f).scrollLeft);f=a.toString()+","+c;b.b.hasOwnProperty(f)?a=!1:(b.b[f]=!0,a=a<=b.e.height&&c<=b.e.width)}a&&(b.a.push(e),b.d[e]=!0)};p.prototype.checkImageForCriticality=function(b){b.getBoundingClientRect&&q(this,b)};h("pagespeed.CriticalImages.checkImageForCriticality",function(b){n.checkImageForCriticality(b)});h("pagespeed.CriticalImages.checkCriticalImages",function(){r(n)});var r=function(b){b.b={};for(var d=["IMG","INPUT"],a=[],c=0;c=a.length+e.length&&(a+=e)}b.g&&(e="&rd="+encodeURIComponent(JSON.stringify(s())),131072>=a.length+e.length&&(a+=e),d=!0);t=a;if(d){c=b.f;b=b.h;var f;if(window.XMLHttpRequest)f=new XMLHttpRequest;else if(window.ActiveXObject)try{f=new ActiveXObject("Msxml2.XMLHTTP")}catch(k){try{f=new ActiveXObject("Microsoft.XMLHTTP")}catch(u){}}f&&(f.open("POST",c+(-1==c.indexOf("?")?"?":"&")+"url="+encodeURIComponent(b)),f.setRequestHeader("Content-Type","application/x-www-form-urlencoded"),f.send(a))}}},s=function(){var b={},d=document.getElementsByTagName("IMG");if(0==d.length)return{};var a=d[0];if(!("naturalWidth"in a&&"naturalHeight"in a))return{};for(var c=0;a=d[c];++c){var e=a.getAttribute("pagespeed_url_hash");e&&(!(e in b)&&0=b[e].k&&a.height>=b[e].j)&&(b[e]={rw:a.width,rh:a.height,ow:a.naturalWidth,oh:a.naturalHeight})}return b},t="";h("pagespeed.CriticalImages.getBeaconData",function(){return t});h("pagespeed.CriticalImages.Run",function(b,d,a,c,e,f){var k=new p(b,d,a,e,f);n=k;c&&m(function(){window.setTimeout(function(){r(k)},0)})});})();pagespeed.CriticalImages.Run('/mod_pagespeed_beacon','http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/index.php?s=3ee0a1d557975799f180447e6d10d5e0&app=forums&module=ajax§ion=topics&do=quote&t=333369&p=3032034&md5check=4551018f18ec0c2c4167091204eddf25&isRte=1,B6nXayd9mu,true,false,TuFeuEV6tp8');//]]></script> &&0 Cheap 177. Cheap 177, complete pass through. In fact the pellet is visible in the tree. Cheap 25. And just for Mr evo a dolly. Haw cheap is cheap with the luminous griped .25 ? What is it? And any others cheap worth looking at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hambone Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 Seems we have some actual penetration issues with a couple of members. Does anyone have all three FAC .22 .25 and .177 to do a rabbit penetration test? Just to add to the mix I have .20 and .25 FAC air (have had .22 in the past). I can not say that any of them has been a problem with headshot rabbits but .22 and .25 may have the edge with 'shock' factor if the shot is not spot on. I nearly always go to the .25 if out after squirrels as the .20 drills through and often leads to them being stuck up trees while the .25 hits them clean off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam1e Posted March 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 Jamie What power were you assuming through chairgun with the .25 was it about 45 ish or were you running it at 30-35? With something running at about 47 ft/lb with JSB Kings in .25 with a zero of 44 yards you are getting a pbr of 12-50 yards Jamie What power were you assuming through chairgun with the .25 was it about 45 ish or were you running it at 30-35? With something running at about 47 ft/lb with JSB Kings in .25 with a zero of 44 yards you are getting a pbr of 12-50 yards Zetta. Somebody kindly did it for me, as i'm not yet familiar with Chairgun. The .25 was tested (I believe) while running at £30ft/lb using a 24 grain pellet, zeroed at 38 yards. When you mention pbr, or point blank range. Do you mean, that zero'd at 44 yards, you can aim bang on from 12 to 50 yards? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zetter Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 Hi Jamie Yep from the info I put in on charigun using JSBs with a mass of 25.4g with a 44 yard zero the deviation from point of zero was <1/2" +/- from 12 yard to 50 yards assuming a muzzle energy of 47 ft/lb. Of course this is theoretical data and real life will vary a small amount but it gives you a guide what can be achieved. 30ft/lb is too low for .25 cal really ideally the gun should run at 45-50 ft/lb to give optimum performance from information a lot of people have put in from the states I have seen. Cheers Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev1gun Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 Well this is an interesting thread, I have had all the calibres mentioned but I am now left with 2 Fac air rifles that I use now a .20 Mk2 Rapid running at 28ft lbs and a .30 Bobcat running at 85 ft lbs with a 50 grain pellet. They both kill equally well it's just a matter of placing the shot correctly. I think accuracy is king over ft lbs every time providing you have enough energy to do the job If you run the numbers of a 14. 3 grn pellet running at 920 fps which the best speed for my .20 Rapid your stil getting over 10 ft lbs of energy @100yards more than enough to dispatch a Rabbit. This would be my choice if I could only have 1 Fac Air rifle, but please understand this is just my opinion But practise practise practise is the key whatever you shoot Hth Kev1gun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyshooter Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 (edited) I Have owned a Rapid .25 at 48 fps it was a great gun , but i was persueded to sell it i now shoot a .303 Wolverine @100 fps, mainly for fun , a daystate airranger .22 at 37 fpe very widely used and for NV use my .22 Cricket 26 fpe which being a bullpup is great from a vehicle or ambushing,as far as calibres go as stated by others its ACCURACY that counts every time. atb brian Edited March 29, 2016 by happyshooter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam1e Posted March 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 Thanks for the further replies folks. I agree totally, that accuracy is king, not ft/lb. However, i'm trying to find an fac air rifle that is around the 30 to 40 ft/lb mark, which also shoots as flat as possible, out to around 60 yards. I appreciate there may be umpteen variables, but I don't want to go too deep into the various matters. That's as basic a request as I can muster on the thread. Cheers. James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 (edited) Flat to 60 yards at that poundage got be .22 or .25 lighter weight pellet. I'd go .22 FX with adjustable power wheel with your parameters. Edited March 28, 2016 by figgy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyshooter Posted March 29, 2016 Report Share Posted March 29, 2016 Hi James , The air arms S510 in fac .22 cal also worth looking at is the Hatsan range in fac these are good value , the FX is a excellent gun but very pricey do not go near the hw100 in fac . atb brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev1gun Posted March 29, 2016 Report Share Posted March 29, 2016 Look at the new FX impact and spec with a .22 barrel and .25 barrel that way your covered wont be cheap though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jameswrx Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 (edited) I'm no physicist but why do people say an FAC .22 has a flatter trajectory? Surely the beauty of FAC is being able to run whatever weight pellet at X speed? Run a .22 and .25 at 25FPE and the .22 will have a flatter trajectory, yes BUT run a .22 and .25 both at 900FPS then surely the trajectory should be similar? Will the .25 slow quicker? I'd personally go for the .25 as it'll have more hitting power, you'd be able to tune it to run 900FPS and at the same speed it would have more power than .22. If you think there's no point then you may as well get a .177 in that case, they're travelling pretty fast at sub 12FPE anyway. Edited March 30, 2016 by jameswrx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 Is a .308 better than a .22LR...NO, they are different. You tailor your calibre, energy, ammunition, etc to the job you want to do with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam1e Posted March 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 In basic terms, I want to be able to "point and shoot", as much as possible. I know the longer shots, and in some cases the shorter shots will need some thinking about. But I want to worry about it as least as possible. I mentioned out to around 60 yards. There will be times when I may want to push a little further than that, and know shots at distance will need some holdover. But as a rule of thumb, "point and shoot" is what i'm after in the majority of cases where possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 Every pellet/bullet has an arc! You will get a more shallow arc with a .22 than a .25 of the same energy! Why a FAC Air at all, what's wrong with a .22lr? Ammo from circa 30ft lb to just over 200ft lb, and shotshells! What do you want to do with the gun? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev1gun Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 I have just run both .20 with 14.3 grain pellet and my .30 with a 50 grain pellet both running @900 fps because i have both of these calibres and the drop is near identical, so i would have thought a .22 and .25 would be near the same as well so which ever one you use your going to have to learn holdover. You can point and shoot from 18 yards out to 53 yards using a 2 inch target Zone, but if you want a point and shoot tool get a .17hmr Kev1gun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonepark Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 Any projectile that passes through has more potential for great trauma as opposed to one that slows to a dead stop in the tissues or have I got that wrong? Yes and No. A solid point and a hollow point both with same energy entering the target, former exits, latter is trapped within body by skin... Which caused most damage? My view is the shock caused by the power dump (usually demonstrated by wound cavity size) as a projectile changes shape within a target is important. As long as the dump is within the target then whether it over penetrates or not, is irrelevent. Problem with 177 (and especially with hard pellets designed to help with high velocity) is that pellet "lasers" through with little dumping of energy inside target. A 25cal with same energy will have a greater energy dump within target as it's larger diameter allows for more deformation and even if it exits, more damage is done to target. Look on Youtube at any of the gelatine block tests, you see entry into the gel with a narrow wound channel and then a short distance later when friction/pressure builds up sufficently, the pellet/bullet deforms (mostly expanding) creating a large wound channel, friction/pressure drops and pellet/bullet returns to narrow wound channel and stops or exits depending on retained energy. The best pellet for causing damage is the one that loses/transfers most energy to the target. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam1e Posted March 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 Every pellet/bullet has an arc! Obviously.... You will get a more shallow arc with a .22 than a .25 of the same energy! Some agree, some don't.... Why a FAC Air at all, what's wrong with a .22lr? Ammo from circa 30ft lb to just over 200ft lb, and shotshells! See post 27... What do you want to do with the gun? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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