410 Patterning at 25 yds

[Stonepark]

Was out this morning before people started moving and did the below for comparison, please excuse the poor circles as don't have a template made up yet, all with Eley 18g No7 (Should be 215 pellets/load) all at 25 yards.

 

Mossberg Hushpower Full Choke - 208 pellets

 

 

Khan K226 with Briley Cyl Choke - 184 pellets

 

 

Khan K226 with Briley Skeet Choke - 202 pellets

 

 

Dog Walkers started appearing and all shots were slightly low, so a few pellets missed at bottom, so will continue at 35 yards later..... but any of those patterns will do at that range.

Edited April 30, 2016 by Stonepark

[Rimfireboy]

Good stuff, thanks for posting.

[MAB1954]

Good to see more folk pattern testing. Those patterns are good should hold up for 30-35 yards, good for a 410 in my opinion.

[Glenlivet]

Interesting so little difference between full and skeet chokes. I've always suspected that after market chokes pattern tighter than the nominal value.

[Stonepark]

Interesting so little difference between full and skeet chokes. I've always suspected that after market chokes pattern tighter than the nominal value.

 

The original chokes that came with the K226 are very tight as the original chokes ranged from Cyl at 0.400 to Full at 0.380.

[kenholland]

stonepark , my mossy full choke patterned about the same with eley 3 inch mag 6's nice to see the other's aswell.

[kent]

My experience is good patterns turn to rat poop at 35

30 is my max personally. Interesting and backs up the case of open choke being the better thing in 410 as it is a 30 yard and under gun if you want drt quarry

[TONY R]

Stone are the cartridges the subsonic 18 gr or the extra long 18gr. Choke will have a lot less effect on patterns if they were the subsonics.

[Stonepark]

Stone are the cartridges the subsonic 18 gr or the extra long 18gr. Choke will have a lot less effect on patterns if they were the subsonics.

 

Extralong, I find little difference between the two, i still have a few boxes of subsonic 6's but didn't like the patterns as a bit sparse. Now if they would just do them in 7 1/2.

[TONY R]

Decent patterns for a non subsonic load.

[motty]

Yeah, but the chokes were in different guns.....

Interesting so little difference between full and skeet chokes. I've always suspected that after market chokes pattern tighter than the nominal value.

[Stonepark]

This mornings results at 35 yards, shows where the holes appear all eley 7's in 18g.

 

Mossberg Hushpower Full choke - 110 pellets

 

 

K226 Briley Cylinder 79 pellets

 

 

K226 Briley Skeet 114 pellets

 

 

For all practical purposes the patterns have significant holes, I have two more Brileys on order in IC and LM and will put them up when delivered.

Edited May 1, 2016 by Stonepark

[kent]

I have to say the full looks to have more holes

Holes make for more cripples and misses than pellets count imo

Holes are the reason I personally feel 35 is too far in general

Have noticed how hard it is to break edge on clays - some shots your bang on but still the clay fits in a hole

[Rimfireboy]

I don't shoot much over 25 yards with my fourten, agree with Kent regarding 35 yards.

[Hamster]

It takes a good bit of skill to consistently break edge on 35 yarders with a 12 gauge.

[Glenlivet]

The bank in my garden is around 25 yards away. That's the limit for me with a .410. Even then a clean kill is not guaranteed.

The bank in my garden is around 25 yards away. That's the limit for me with a .410. Even then a clean kill,is not guaranteed.

Edited to say - with a Hushpower moderator, if that makes a difference. Edited May 1, 2016 by Glenlivet

[Continental Shooter]

35 yds with 410 is a though ask, especially on 18gr

 

but the patterns are decent: first one is a bit to the right compared to the circled area and could more pellet on target; second seems good for th distance/choke combo so, would be satisfied with this test.

 

Thanks for sharing

[TONY R]

If i was wanting to get a .410 practicaly out to 40 yards i would go with HW 19 TSS call it what you will, its 18. 75 grams per cc or there about straight toungsten is only 19. 3 so its as heavy as HW shot gets AFAIK.

Here is a comparison per ounce.
TSS 9s
Lead #5 Hevi 13 #7 TSS #9
1 oz 173 278 362
1 1/8oz 195 313 407
1 1/4oz 216 348 453
1 1/2oz 260 417 543
1 5/8oz 281 452 588
1 3/4oz 303 487 634
2 oz 346 556 724

 

Not my pattern by the way.

Edited May 2, 2016 by TONY R

[Dasher]

35yrds is just about possible with 19 or 21g of #7.5 shot (2.3mm), but at 36yrds those small pellets are just about lacking in penetration for pigeon in my opinion.

[Stonepark]

7.5's at 35 yards are similar (but actually better due to small size and therefore higher velocity and better penetration)) than 7's at 40 yards or 6.5's at 45 yards or 6's at 50 yards. They are all getting towards their limit but will still do the job.

 

I have been using 7's as that is what is available in fibre (but both fiocchi and eley do a plastic wad 7.5 in 19g and 18g respectively) which I have yet to try in detail.

 

With the OEM chokes that came with my gun, at 25yds, tighter equaled better until half choke and then no real improvement, but at 35 yards, 1/2 gave the best pattern (but less than the Briley Skeet) with 3/4 and full markedly poorer.

 

I am trying to find an optimum aftermarket choke for the eleys for clays and also for pigeons/game.

 

Once I get chokes sorted, i intend to do some reloading to find an acceptable load with clay shot (ie. high antimony) which should improve matters as well.

[motty]

2.3mm shot will easily kill at 40 yards.

35yrds is just about possible with 19 or 21g of #7.5 shot (2.3mm), but at 36yrds those small pellets are just about lacking in penetration for pigeon in my opinion.

[Guest stevo]

Motty

 

what I find remarkable within the PW massive is ..... If your using a 12g an once of 7.5 shot (2.3mm) its NOT the done thing. And filled by lots of " we should be showing the bird some respect " However if your using a .410 then the best shot size seems to be 7.5. !!

Edited May 3, 2016 by stevo

[TONY R]

Motty

 

what I find remarkable within the PW massive is ..... If your using a 12g an once of 7.5 shot (2.3mm) its NOT the done thing. And filled by lots of " we should be showing the bird some respect " However if your using a .410 then the best shot size seems to be 7.5. !!

Agree and what i would like to add here if i may here, is that .410s seem to be at least 100fps slower sometimes much more than typical 12 bore ammo.

I am no .410 expert but i have not seen any sizlingly fast .410 ammo, and i imagine just imagine mark you that the smaller bore long wad column would not take too kindly to higher speeds re patterns and pressure could rear its head pretty soon. Now thats just my thoughts like i say reloading .410 is a all together new thing to me.

[wymberley]

7.5's at 35 yards are similar (but actually better due to small size and therefore higher velocity and better penetration)) than 7's at 40 yards or 6.5's at 45 yards or 6's at 50 yards. They are all getting towards their limit but will still do the job.

 

I have been using 7's as that is what is available in fibre (but both fiocchi and eley do a plastic wad 7.5 in 19g and 18g respectively) which I have yet to try in detail.

 

With the OEM chokes that came with my gun, at 25yds, tighter equaled better until half choke and then no real improvement, but at 35 yards, 1/2 gave the best pattern (but less than the Briley Skeet) with 3/4 and full markedly poorer.

 

I am trying to find an optimum aftermarket choke for the eleys for clays and also for pigeons/game.

 

Once I get chokes sorted, i intend to do some reloading to find an acceptable load with clay shot (ie. high antimony) which should improve matters as well.

That might have been better if the bit in brackets had been omitted. Whereas size and velocity are functions of penetration, in this particular example, the "better" is invalid I believe. Given a like muzzle velocity as used in the Table pinned above, at 35 yards the penetration (7 & 1/2) comes in at 0.83". However, that velocity is well in excess of that for the run of the mill 410 load.

[Stonepark]

Motty

 

what I find remarkable within the PW massive is ..... If your using a 12g an once of 7.5 shot (2.3mm) its NOT the done thing. And filled by lots of " we should be showing the bird some respect " However if your using a .410 then the best shot size seems to be 7.5. !!

My favourite 12 round for pigeons is a clay cartridge but i shoot at reasonable ranges (i.e. out to 35 yards max with 7.5 no matter the caliber) on the otherhand a lot of those i know and see are "banging away" at 50 yarders with 32g no6 and hoping..... with patterns and energy worse than my 410 skeet choke at 35yds above).

 

Problem goes back to pattern and energy which in my view should ideally be almost balanced at the max range they are useful (unbalanced would be 1oz 9 or 2oz ssg either great pattern and poor energy or vice versa),.

 

If you want to kill a pigeon at 40yards everytime in my opinion (i.e. no significant holes in pattern) you need half choke and 26g 7, 28g 6.5, 32g 6 or 39g 5. At 45 yards, full choke, 34g 6.5. 38g 6, 46g 5. 50 yards full choke 40g 6 or 48g 5.

 

At 35yds, 18g of 7.5 half choke is no different to a pigeon than 38g of no6 full choke at 50yards but most would only use 32g 6 and be "proud" of their shot and yet as you point out criticise the 1oz or less 7.5.

 

 

Of course if your George Digweed with a regulated gun and cartridge setup (and which us mere mortals can't afford) you can stretch things a bit.

Edited May 3, 2016 by Stonepark