.17 Hornet

[Zetter]

I know a few on Pigeon watch have owned a .17 Hornet now and had a fair chance to give them a good thrash.

Whats the general consensus as a bunny gun, Corvid basher with the occasional fox thrown in?

 

I have a variation in for a .204 for the above at the moment but was thinking of changing my mind for a Hornet when the FEO contacts me. After a frustrating couple of weeks with the .17HMR I was thinking this could kill two bird with one stone and get rid of it on the back of the hornet.

I will be reloading so that would keep the cost down vs the HMR. Am I missing anything?

 

 

Cheers in advance Zetter

[tweedledee]

great calibre....

[CharlieT]

Yes, it's a great caliber. Falls midway between the HMR and .204.

 

Depends what you want, a medium range or relatively long range caliber.

 

Just get both, I have.

[mick miller]

Yes had mine a little while now. Absolutely love it! For me it was a direct replacement for the HMR, filling the gap between my 22 FAC air and 243. 22 air covers small paddocks, large gardens, squirrels in trees safely. 17hh everything from rabbits to fox (drops foxes with authority, unlike the HMR). Rabbits it decapitates and you do get some shoulder damage on a few if hit too far back in the head.

 

Reloading is a must if you want to lower the cost and some of the parts can be awkward to source (case trimming components), but many simply buy Hornady brass and reload that or buy factory, shoot once and reload. Sellior and Bellot now make 17hh and so too Federal.

 

Flat like a 223 and with 1000fps over the HMR it really is a great in-between calibre. It moderates as well or better than the HMR (from reports from the truck cab) and thus far every fox shot has dropped, whereas my shooting buddy has shot 4 at shorter ranges and had three run (people will say it's placement, the nut on the butt etc. but I'm afraid you don't get reliable placement out of a box of factory HMR ammo and it simply isn't man enough anyway unless your 70 yards and under and putting it in the head - not reliably in my experience anyway).

 

The rifle itself in CZ527 flavour is way superior to the CZ rimfire in every way. Better trigger, better finish, better feel, better safety, better crown. The only downside is its considerably longer than a 16" 455 or 452 and that adds weight. However, some people have successfully chopped theirs to 16". I'm tempted to chop to 18-20" myself but need to do more research on this first.

 

I'm fire forming 22 PPU hornet to 17HH and using the fire forming loads to hunt. Performance with these loads is comparable to the 17WSM at 3000fps and I think I should get at least 5 loads from a case once formed, maybe more if I anneal every third firing and neck size only. That fetches the cost down to £19.50 for 50, the biggest cost is the bullet itself at 24p each.

 

There are videos of people rabbit shooting to 350 yards, I'm saying it will definitely drop foxes out to 130 yards without a problem, but haven't attempted greater distances with the fire forming loads as the groups aren't tight enough beyond that. I get an 1 1/4" groups at 100 yards with the FF loads, I fully expect to fetch that down to 3/8" groups and maybe under with a developed load.

Edited July 25, 2016 by mick miller

[Zetter]

Hi Mick and Charlie

 

I was sold on a .204 intially but after a hard think and a few more week of shooting since my variation went in I dont think im doing enough foxes to really need it and the ranges are not excessive when I do see them i.e. they are <120 yards initially before calling in to take the shot. Mainly I am looking for a longer range bunny/ corvid gun with the ability to sort a fox out if I see one.

If I'm honest the HMR hasn't blown me away so far in terms of consistency and I am wondering weather a hornet will give me that flexibility with greater down range accuracy/ punch than the HMR.

As variations are painfully long in TVP at the moment I want to get my first centre fire right on this go so as I haven't had the telephone interview yet with the FEO the option is still there to change my mind.

Also gun wise it seems a toss up between the CZ and the Savage any thoughts either way?

[CharlieT]

You won't regret getting the .17H.

 

I've had mine since they first came out over here and use it regularly, as my go rifle on everything from rats in and around the yard, squirrels in the garden to foxes in the fields. I only now use the .204 if I know my targets will be longish range.

 

I have the Savage, but only because it was the only make available then. Some slate it because it's not as pretty as the others, but boy is it accurate and has the benefit of a plastic stock which, many a time, I've washed off under the tap or in a stream!.

Would I buy another - definitely yes. It's a good, accurate working rifle that I carry with me in the Gator or tractor every day.

[mick miller]

CZ all day long. I've heard some unhappy reports from Savage owners elsewhere but hardly any (if any) from those that went CZ. The gamekeeper here bought one after seeing mine (chopping in his HMR) in American flavour. The lighter barrel does make a difference to weight and it handles well, but as 80% of my shooting is on or from a vehicle weight is less of an issue plus it handles range day plinking well.

 

You will need to load develop if you want the best from it in terms of accuracy (as with all rifles), but factory should group quite well if you have deep pockets and can afford to shoot factory only (keep the once fired brass - it will sell!).

 

For more info you could join the 17 hornet Facebook group, loads of info on there.

 

EDIT: Just missed the post above, well there's at least one happy Savage owner out there! To be honest, I would have preferred a synthetic stock myself, in time I'm sure alternatives will become available.

Edited July 25, 2016 by mick miller

[Zetter]

Cheers Both

 

I have had a couple of lessons on reloading so far off of Colin and Fruit loop off here who very kindly game me a run through on what was involved and will definitely be reloading whichever calibre I settle on. Plan is to shoot factory for a bit to build up some cases then start reloading, I am ploughing my way through the A to Z of reloading as a start.

Hmm will have to see on the Savage vs CZ front on what is available locally I must admit I do love CZ based on my .22RF which has fired thousands of rounds and still chugs along merrily without any issues.

[mick miller]

The 527 is a mini-mauser type action. Tried and tested.

[markm]

I love mine. It's my go to rifle every day when looking after the birds.

 

It's very rewarding / smooth / recoil less / flat to shoot. I do agree with the comments on reloading, it brings the cost down to HMR prices after the initial set up.

 

The only downside is, it's a vermin tool, not a meat collecting tool, unless you take head shots.

 

I have a CZ, quiet temped to look at a HW66 22 hornet and get it rebarelled.

Edited July 25, 2016 by markm

[snow white]

Cz 527 17hornet brill i take rabbits out to two hundred easely.i have 22lr and 223 the gun i pick up every time is the 17 best of both worlds rabbits and foxes go down with it fantastic caliber nice and flat

[Zetter]

I love mine. It's my go to rifle every day when looking after the birds.

 

It's very rewarding / smooth / recoil less / flat to shoot. I do agree with the comments on reloading, it brings the cost down to HMR prices after the initial set up.

 

The only downside is, it's a vermin tool, not a meat collecting tool, unless you take head shots.

 

I have a CZ, quiet temped to look at a HW66 22 hornet and get it rebarelled.

 

I know where you are coming from regarding meat damage but I generally go for head shots with the HMR as anywhere else on a bunny usually makes them useless for eating anyway with those so it wont be a massive burden.

[mick miller]

It is more traumatic on bunnies. With head shot rabbits front on sometimes the damage extends to beyond the shoulder. Side on tends to be okay, it just completely removes the head. Body shots tend to split them in almost in half.

[Mini Magnum]

I have a CZ527 .22 Hornet, nice little rifle and calibre..but I'd look at getting a .204 or .223 over the .17 hornet, personally, you can then get a Tikka action or a much broader range of rifles available for the calibres, to me personally the Tikka is brilliant for the money, much better than a CZ, even when it comes to accessories like rifle stocks and weaver rails for night vision for them, the tikka has more options.

[Zetter]

It is more traumatic on bunnies. With head shot rabbits front on sometimes the damage extends to beyond the shoulder. Side on tends to be okay, it just completely removes the head. Body shots tend to split them in almost in half.

 

Ah thanks for the info Mick I think I will stick to the LR if I want to eat them then.

Mini Magnum my variation is in for a .204 at the moment but for my needs I am debating if its too much gun? It would certainly be unusable on one of my permissions and I tend to do more corvid and bunny bashing than foxing.

[mick miller]

They're still okay for eating, most of mine go to the game dealer, he doesn't complain but rather just states "more with no head then". Some I eat, some go to supplement the dog food. It's just that you can't body shoot them and hope for something edible and some, but by no means all head shots can result in damage to the shoulder area.

[srspower]

Why not .223? Or even better a .243?

[Zetter]

Really becuase I want something a bit different. Also for what I want it for i.e. long range bunnies, corvids and the odd fox .223 seems a bit too much gun, for .243 the land isnt cleared and thats way too much gun for what I need.

[mick miller]

I shot a rabbit with a 243, once. Not really a 'bunny gun' or suitable for long range crow.

 

The nice thing with the 17 calibres is that although not ricochet proof, if they do then the projectile is tiny, likely to be only a small part or parts and due to the mass, rapidly loses momentum and energy.

 

This makes them 'safer' than a larger, heavier calibre. Obvious safety rules apply and although dead is dead, there is little point in the overkill that 223 or 243 brings to the table.

 

One of the guys was shooting empty drinks cans on the Facebook forum and noted how, on an empty can, there was a clear entry but no obvious exit. This, whilst not scientific, suggests that it's possible that a 20gn pill in the Hornet expands slightly better than a 17gn pill in the hmr.

 

I'm not sure on cost for reloading the 223/243 either, but 50 reloaded hornet rounds cost me a mere £19.50, which is still an affordable bunny gun with 223 trajectory and range(ish).

[Zetter]

I must admit on Ricochet that is what has also drawn me to the .204/ .17 hornet I know its got to be a safe shot but even with a nice hill behind the target it does send a bit a a chill down the spine when you hear the whine of a ricochet so whatever I can do to minimize it is good for me.

[CharlieT]

Why not .223? Or even better a .243?

 

I've got a .17H, .204, .222 and .243, and believe me for what Zetter want's to use it for the .17H/.204 is the far better choice. Having shot the .204 for about 10 years I'm yet to be convinced that the .222/.223 matches it in any way.

[njc110381]

I've had a CZ .17 Hornet for a while now. I had it built when the Savage was the only make available and I didn't want one!

 

For the uses you've put forward I'd say it will be a fantastic round for you. I can shoot rabbits out to 300 yards easily enough with mine, which was chambered to work perfectly with factory spec ammo.

 

.204 is a bigger round. More powder, more ammo cost, nothing more to offer on the bunny and corvid front. For fox it would be better, but the little .17H can handle them just fine if you keep ranges sensible and hit them right.

[mick miller]

I love mine, everyone I know that actually shoots the calibre feels the same. The cost over the hmr is worth it in my opinion and, if hand loading, can be brought down to almost hmr money per 50 with an absolute improvement in reliability, consistency and accuracy.

[kennett]

Damn you all. I want one now! Nice savage near me for 399 with pes over barrel mod@

[Zetter]

Ive been watching that Kennett as well ive been surprised it hasnt gone yet as its at least 40% cheaper than any other .17 on there and a mod thrown in to boot!