Male mums

[achosenman]

i dont read this as being anti gay at all , i think its a very good insight(from your own personal experience) into the thoughts of youngsters at an age when theyre just starting to find their way in a very confusing world , children have feelings in exactly the same way as adults , but , as adults we (sometimes)have a greater understanding of them from past experience , as a youngster we dont have the past life experience to draw on , so at times things can be very confusing.

im still not convinced that you could steer anyone into being gay though , anymore than you could steer them out of it.

 

i still dont understand the mechanics of a female being turned into a male then back into a female though.

That's easy, being female she changed her mind...again.

[bostonmick]

[quote name="mel b3" post="3109196" timestamp="1470171713"

 

i still dont understand the mechanics of a female being turned into a male then back into a female though.

 

Its simple.she was never anything other than a female.all of her reproductive parts were still intact.it is an impossibility for a human to be changed from female to male and vice versa by surgery alone.and that is why it is so wrong for public money to be wasted trying.

Edited August 3, 2016 by bostonmick

[mel b3]

That's easy, being female she changed her mind...again.

that one i understand all too well lol.

 

Its simple.she was never anything other than a female.all of her reproductive parts were still intact.it is an impossibility for a human to be changed from female to male and vice versa by surgery alone.and that is why it is so wrong for public money to be wasted trying.

what i mean is , did she have a todger fitted and then would she have had it removed when she wanted a child ? , id do a google but i dread to think what id find lol.

[CharlieT]

 

 

whati mean is , did she have a todger fitted and then would she have had it removed when she wanted a child ? , id do a google but i dread to think what id find lol.

 

It all baffles me but I would guess he/she didn't have any reproductive organ surgery done.

 

Just found this for you.........https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_reassignment_surgery_(female-to-male)

 

and now you've got me searching, this............http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3312187/

Edited August 3, 2016 by CharlieT

[secretagentmole]

When I was a kid babies had a mother and a father, not a mother and a mother or a father and a father. Couples who had trouble conceiving could then opt for the new in vitro fertilisation techniques being developed.

 

But the 60s got hold of the 70s and liberalism set in to all things, into respect for authority, respect for elders, respect for teachers and respect for neighbours. I count myself truly lucky to be one of the last through education when fear of the cane or slipper engendered respect and discipline, when there was a genuine fear of what would happen if you did wrong.

 

Now not even nature is being respected and I find it reprehensible that children will be expected to survive in a relationship of a same sex couple as it is not natural.

 

I do not care for liberal views, nature has been going for millennia and up until this point in history humans have needed a male and female parent. Look at the problems blamed on lack of a father figure in a criminal's history (often used as an excuse for some scrote who thinks that's what is his is his and what is yours is his too), no doubt this will be trolled out with lack of a mother figure when they are caught beating some innocent to a pulp.

 

What is even more reprehensible is that people are being denied drugs which have been proven to work to pay for this sort of ****!

[fern01]

When I was a kid babies had a mother and a father, not a mother and a mother or a father and a father. Couples who had trouble conceiving could then opt for the new in vitro fertilisation techniques being developed.

 

But the 60s got hold of the 70s and liberalism set in to all things, into respect for authority, respect for elders, respect for teachers and respect for neighbours. I count myself truly lucky to be one of the last through education when fear of the cane or slipper engendered respect and discipline, when there was a genuine fear of what would happen if you did wrong.

 

Now not even nature is being respected and I find it reprehensible that children will be expected to survive in a relationship of a same sex couple as it is not natural.

 

I do not care for liberal views, nature has been going for millennia and up until this point in history humans have needed a male and female parent. Look at the problems blamed on lack of a father figure in a criminal's history (often used as an excuse for some scrote who thinks that's what is his is his and what is yours is his too), no doubt this will be trolled out with lack of a mother figure when they are caught beating some innocent to a pulp.

 

What is even more reprehensible is that people are being denied drugs which have been proven to work to pay for this sort of ****!

 

I am old school too and my grandchildren seem to be the only ones who have both a mother and father in their class.

 

The way its going with the world in general I worry about the future generations in this country.

[secretagentmole]

 

I am old school too and my grandchildren seem to be the only ones who have both a mother and father in their class.

 

The way its going with the world in general I worry about the future generations in this country.

There were single parent families when I was a kid too, people die, it happens, people divorce, it happens. But then there were extended families who looked after the kids too, who helped ensure that there was a balance.

 

Equality for all means that there will be losers and in this case I fear ti will be the children!

Edited August 3, 2016 by secretagentmole

[Scully]

 

I am old school too and my grandchildren seem to be the only ones who have both a mother and father in their class.

 

The way its going with the world in general I worry about the future generations in this country.

 

All my childrens friends have mothers and fathers, although most of them have either divorced or separated, which means either single parent families or step dads/step mums. None have come to any harm and most are just ordinary well balanced kids. **** happens I'm afraid; its called life.

Those kids who have problems are mostly from parents who don't care, but it doesn't necessarily follow that good parenting means good kids. There are many instances of wayward kids evolving from what would appear to be fine upstanding parents in my generation also. One of our school masters had three children; two girls and a boy. All were highly intelligent at school and one would presume would go onto great things. The boy, the eldest and the year above me at school, got heavily into drugs while still at school and has been sectioned in the past. Last I heard he was being pursued by police the wrong way down the M6. His sister, in my year, is an accomplished musician, and went on to support Bowie on tour and once appeared on TOTP in the 80's with her own band of all female musicians. The youngest girl, whose daughter is the best friend of my daughter, and arguably the brightest of them all, has split from her husband and has serious issues and walks around town like a tramp in unwashed clothes and unwashed hair. People do their best to avoid her. Her daughter is currently at Northumbria University studying drama.

I'm not worried about future generations in the context of this thread at all. I doubt they'll be much different to those of my generation.

[bostonmick]

If only we could ask our grandparents and their parents what they thought of today's generation in relation to this thread.the past fifty years have definitely seen a lot of changes and unfortunately mostly not for the better.

Edited August 3, 2016 by bostonmick

[Scully]

If only we could ask our grandparents and their parents what they thought of today's generation in relation to this thread.the past fifty years have definitely seen a lot of changes and unfortunately mostly not for the better.

 

Times change Mick, and we have to evolve and our attitudes and tolerances have to evolve too. We can become enlightened and tolerant without necessarily having to sacrifice our values. But if we don't evolve we end up like those who are currently killing 21st century people with 21st century weapons but with a 12th century mentality.

[bostonmick]

Evolution is a natural process.not artificially induced with surgery.mess with the natural order of life and there will be a price to pay in the future.i have no problem with progress and technology that improves our lives and makes it better but not playing God.

Edited August 3, 2016 by bostonmick

[old'un]

If only we could ask our grandparents and their parents what they thought of today's generation in relation to this thread.the past fifty years have definitely seen a lot of changes and unfortunately mostly not for the better.

Yep...spot-on mick, times do change and as you say not for the better, but never mind I guess we will have to evolve and be more tolerant of the 21st century thugs.

[mel b3]

 

It all baffles me but I would guess he/she didn't have any reproductive organ surgery done.

 

Just found this for you.........https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_reassignment_surgery_(female-to-male)

 

and now you've got me searching, this............http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3312187/

ive taken a look and im still not quite sure , its certainly a very in depth subject.

[Scully]

Evolution is a natural process.not artificially induced with surgery.mess with the natural order of life and there will be a price to pay in the future.i have no problem with progress and technology that improves our lives and makes it better but not playing God.

 

I was meaning the evolution to our mindset actually Mick, but fair enough.

Science isn't playing god Mick; it is the way forward , whether we like it or not. You can wait for god to act, or put your faith in science; we all know which one will come up with the goods.

Surgery for the general well being of the human being is in my opinion, a good thing. My daughter had extensive orthodontic work carried out when younger, on the NHS. She didn't need it as it wasn't life threatening, nor did it effect her eating habits nor her day to day life, but it preyed on her adolescent mind. Should I have refused she had this in preference for the 'natural order', ( and as one orthodontist put it, potentially put her through a lot of unpleasantness later in life at even greater cost to the NHS ) or had her upper jaw and specifically her teeth, 'artificially induced' as you put it, to improve her appearance ( very important to teenage girls as I'm sure you're aware ) as well as her mental image of herself? What would you do?

Childbirth isn't down to god MIck, science ( again ) has proved that.

Yep...spot-on mick, times do change and as you say not for the better, but never mind I guess we will have to evolve and be more tolerant of the 21st century thugs.

Not for the better? Really? In the context of this thread can you give me one example of a medical or surgical application which hasn't been improved on as times have changed? Everything, and I mean everything, we currently enjoy in the 21st century, has been brought about ( and improved upon time after time ) by the sciences.

As for being 'more tolerant of the 21st century thugs', I have no idea what you're on about.....have you?

[bostonmick]

 

I was meaning the evolution to our mindset actually Mick, but fair enough.

Science isn't playing god Mick; it is the way forward , whether we like it or not. You can wait for god to act, or put your faith in science; we all know which one will come up with the goods.

Surgery for the general well being of the human being is in my opinion, a good thing. My daughter had extensive orthodontic work carried out when younger, on the NHS. She didn't need it as it wasn't life threatening, nor did it effect her eating habits nor her day to day life, but it preyed on her adolescent mind. Should I have refused she had this in preference for the 'natural order', ( and as one orthodontist put it, potentially put her through a lot of unpleasantness later in life at even greater cost to the NHS ) or had her upper jaw and specifically her teeth, 'artificially induced' as you put it, to improve her appearance ( very important to teenage girls as I'm sure you're aware ) as well as her mental image of herself? What would you do?

Childbirth isn't down to god MIck, science ( again ) has proved that.

Not for the better? Really? In the context of this thread can you give me one example of a medical or surgical application which hasn't been improved on as times have changed? Everything, and I mean everything, we currently enjoy in the 21st century, has been brought about ( and improved upon time after time ) by the sciences.

As for being 'more tolerant of the 21st century thugs', I have no idea what you're on about.....have you?

if you read a previous post i made i wholeheartedly agree with surgery for the sake of health.and reconstructive surgery after illness and accidents,but not paid for by the nhs when it is for the type this thread is about,if you want to change your sex then pay for it privately.as for the mental issues it is supposedly meant to help well why not treat the obvious mental issues of that person at the start instead of compounding it and the child that may follow.i wonder how humans managed to breed in the days before scientists.how far are we to go with this so called evolution.we now tolerate gay relationships to a point where they have more rights and protection than others and by that i mean discrimination laws are stacked in theirs and other so called minority,s favour,they are allowed to legally marry.adopt children.where do we move to from here how long before the age of consent is lowered and then eventually phaedophiles will be allowed to carry on their evil ways all in the name of evolution of the tolerant society.i think the 21st century comment on the thugs was to do with the tolerance we seem to have on letting anybody come into our society without proper background checks and then being surprised when they wake up one day to kill us..i am sad to say i am glad i will not be around in say twenty years time but i feel guilty to be leaving my children and grandchildren in this twisted world that we have created.and i dont think future generations will look back and thank us.

[Vince Green]

No it should not be paid for by the NHS.

+1 There is no medical need, just a wish. The person involved has probably had a lot of treatment already on the NHS.

 

When there is a surplus maybe but there are a lot of higher priorities at the moment.

[Scully]

if you read a previous post i made i wholeheartedly agree with surgery for the sake of health.but not mental health eh? and reconstructive surgery after illness and accidents,but not paid for by the nhs when it is for the type this thread is about,if you want to change your sex then pay for it privately.It isn't as straightforward as 'wanting' Mick; it isn't done as a fashion accessory. as for the mental issues it is supposedly meant to help well why not treat the obvious mental issues of that person at the start ​do you believe that wont have been thoroughly investigated over a long period of time (years ) prior to deciding on gender change surgery? It isn't a decision taken lightly. instead of compounding it and the child that may follow.Why do you automatically assume any child brought into the world under such circumstances will be at a disadvantage over any other? i wonder how humans managed to breed in the days before scientists.​Really? how far are we to go with this so called evolution.We are constantly evolving Mick...well some of us anyhow. It's called life. we now tolerate gay relationships to a point where they have more rights and protection than others and by that i mean discrimination laws are stacked in theirs and other so called minority,s favour,Would you prefer it if we went back to the days when gays had to live in fear and were persecuted even by law? They are human beings too Mick. You do realise it isn't a lifestyle choice as some seem to think, but merely down to their genetic make up...don't you? they are allowed to legally marry.adopt children.Yes, like I said, they're human beings; doesn't everyone deserve the chance to be happy? There are worse things they could be Mick; being gay doesn't necessarily mean they are depraved or less worthy. Gays don't have the monopoly on depravity. where do we move to from here how long before the age of consent is lowered and then eventually phaedophiles will be allowed to carry on their evil ways all in the name of evolution of the tolerant society. Even by your normal standards Mick, that's one hell of a leap to the ridiculously outrageous! Your bigotry is showing! Not all gays are pedophiles Mick; and believe it or not, not all pedophiles are gay! Where does that leave your logic? think the 21st century comment on the thugs was to do with the tolerance we seem to have on letting anybody come into our society without proper background checks and then being surprised when they wake up one day to kill us..Let him explain; he made the comment. i am sad to say i am glad i will not be around in say twenty years time but i feel guilty to be leaving my children and grandchildren in this twisted world that we have created.and i dont think future generations will look back and thank us. Thank us for what Mick? Having the tolerance, understanding and intelligence not to discriminate against others who are attracted to the same sex but otherwise just like you or me? No doubt we can thank earlier generations for using science to dispel the belief the earth was flat....well, some of us can.

Take your blinkers off Mick and embrace a queer! Your life will be enriched all the more for it. They're only human, believe me.

 

[bostonmick]

 

if you read a previous post i made i wholeheartedly agree with surgery for the sake of health.but not mental health eh? and reconstructive surgery after illness and accidents,but not paid for by the nhs when it is for the type this thread is about,if you want to change your sex then pay for it privately.It isn't as straightforward as 'wanting' Mick; it isn't done as a fashion accessory. as for the mental issues it is supposedly meant to help well why not treat the obvious mental issues of that person at the start ​do you believe that wont have been thoroughly investigated over a long period of time (years ) prior to deciding on gender change surgery? It isn't a decision taken lightly. instead of compounding it and the child that may follow.Why do you automatically assume any child brought into the world under such circumstances will be at a disadvantage over any other? i wonder how humans managed to breed in the days before scientists.​Really? how far are we to go with this so called evolution.We are constantly evolving Mick...well some of us anyhow. It's called life. we now tolerate gay relationships to a point where they have more rights and protection than others and by that i mean discrimination laws are stacked in theirs and other so called minority,s favour,Would you prefer it if we went back to the days when gays had to live in fear and were persecuted even by law? They are human beings too Mick. You do realise it isn't a lifestyle choice as some seem to think, but merely down to their genetic make up...don't you? they are allowed to legally marry.adopt children.Yes, like I said, they're human beings; doesn't everyone deserve the chance to be happy? There are worse things they could be Mick; being gay doesn't necessarily mean they are depraved or less worthy. Gays don't have the monopoly on depravity. where do we move to from here how long before the age of consent is lowered and then eventually phaedophiles will be allowed to carry on their evil ways all in the name of evolution of the tolerant society. Even by your normal standards Mick, that's one hell of a leap to the ridiculously outrageous! Your bigotry is showing! Not all gays are pedophiles Mick; and believe it or not, not all pedophiles are gay! Where does that leave your logic? think the 21st century comment on the thugs was to do with the tolerance we seem to have on letting anybody come into our society without proper background checks and then being surprised when they wake up one day to kill us..Let him explain; he made the comment. i am sad to say i am glad i will not be around in say twenty years time but i feel guilty to be leaving my children and grandchildren in this twisted world that we have created.and i dont think future generations will look back and thank us. Thank us for what Mick? Having the tolerance, understanding and intelligence not to discriminate against others who are attracted to the same sex but otherwise just like you or me? No doubt we can thank earlier generations for using science to dispel the belief the earth was flat....well, some of us can.

Take your blinkers off Mick and embrace a queer! Your life will be enriched all the more for it. They're only human, believe me.

 

 

as ever you like to break up sentences to fit in with your own answers.i have at no time suggested that sex change has anything to do with being gay.so we have people who as you suggest have been through years of physciatric appraisal and been deemed to be fit in mind to make the choice to become a man only for them to then want to perform the function of the female they once were.and then undergo more to try and achieve this.and as for any children that may be as a result of this how would you imagine the conversation when that child asks daddy where is my mummy.well son/daughter i am your mummy you see i was a woman and then was aman and then back to woman.and at what age do you think the child would be mentally fit for such a talk.or should they be put into therapy prior to the point of asking to prepare them.also i have no problem with people who wish to be gay.i do however have a problem with taxpayers money being used to pander to the whims of these so called born in the wrong body types.i had reconstructive surgery on my left hand following an accident while working without it i would still have been able to work but allbeit in a very limited way.you may now break up this post as you wish to suit your point.as for embracing a gay i will leave that to you i can think of no way my life would be enriched by doing this.i like everyone know some gay people cant say they are any better or worse than anyone else.

[Scully]

as ever you like to break up sentences to fit in with your own answers.i have at no time suggested that sex change has anything to do with being gay.so we have people who as you suggest have been through years of physciatric appraisal and been deemed to be fit in mind to make the choice to become a man only for them to then want to perform the function of the female they once were.and then undergo more to try and achieve this.and as for any children that may be as a result of this how would you imagine the conversation when that child asks daddy where is my mummy.well son/daughter i am your mummy you see i was a woman and then was aman and then back to woman.and at what age do you think the child would be mentally fit for such a talk. Good question; I doubt any of those involved had thought of that one.

or should they be put into therapy prior to the point of asking to prepare them.also i have no problem with people who wish to be gay.i do however have a problem with taxpayers money being used to pander to the whims of these so called born in the wrong body types.i had reconstructive surgery on my left hand following an accident while working without it i would still have been able to work but allbeit in a very limited way.you may now break up this post as you wish to suit your point.as for embracing a gay i will leave that to you i can think of no way my life would be enriched by doing this.i like everyone know some gay people cant say they are any better or worse than anyone else.

 

Relieved to hear it Mick; though judging from recent posts I'm not totally convinced by that last sentence. But anyhow, no one was suggesting you had to join in!

Injecting questions and answers into your posts is the only way ( well, shorter anyhow ) I can address some of your claims and statements Mick. Despite your claims to the contrary it isn't trickery nor done to deliberately annoy you. All you have to do Mick, is click on 'quote' below any of my posts, move your cursor to the relevant point in my post, and start typing. It's dead easy.

[old'un]

 

I was meaning the evolution to our mindset actually Mick, but fair enough.

Science isn't playing god Mick; it is the way forward , whether we like it or not. You can wait for god to act, or put your faith in science; we all know which one will come up with the goods.

Surgery for the general well being of the human being is in my opinion, a good thing. My daughter had extensive orthodontic work carried out when younger, on the NHS. She didn't need it as it wasn't life threatening, nor did it effect her eating habits nor her day to day life, but it preyed on her adolescent mind. Should I have refused she had this in preference for the 'natural order', ( and as one orthodontist put it, potentially put her through a lot of unpleasantness later in life at even greater cost to the NHS ) or had her upper jaw and specifically her teeth, 'artificially induced' as you put it, to improve her appearance ( very important to teenage girls as I'm sure you're aware ) as well as her mental image of herself? What would you do?

Childbirth isn't down to god MIck, science ( again ) has proved that.

Not for the better? Really? In the context of this thread can you give me one example of a medical or surgical application which hasn't been improved on as times have changed? Everything, and I mean everything, we currently enjoy in the 21st century, has been brought about ( and improved upon time after time ) by the sciences.

As for being 'more tolerant of the 21st century thugs', I have no idea what you're on about.....have you?

 

In the context of this thread the things that have changed and not for the better are the very things this thread is about NHS money being used for sex change which is wrong in my opinion.

Using the word thugs was perhaps slightly off topic but was my way of saying what is wrong with today's society without writing a long list and part response to a post by secretagentmole.

 

"But the 60s got hold of the 70s and liberalism set in to all things, into respect for authority, respect for elders, respect for teachers and respect for neighbours. I count myself truly lucky to be one of the last through education when fear of the cane or slipper engendered respect and discipline, when there was a genuine fear of what would happen if you did wrong"

[Vince Green]

Transgender people don't have to be gay although it is a slightly confused definition of gay (gay before or gay after?) . What this topic is about is having their eggs or sperm frozen before the surgery so they can be used or donated later.

 

The question is where do you draw the line financially?

[Scully]

 

In the context of this thread the things that have changed and not for the better are the very things this thread is about NHS money being used for sex change which is wrong in my opinion.

Using the word thugs was perhaps slightly off topic but was my way of saying what is wrong with today's society without writing a long list and part response to a post by secretagentmole.

 

"But the 60s got hold of the 70s and liberalism set in to all things, into respect for authority, respect for elders, respect for teachers and respect for neighbours. I count myself truly lucky to be one of the last through education when fear of the cane or slipper engendered respect and discipline, when there was a genuine fear of what would happen if you did wrong"

I was caned twice at school and admittedly probably deserved it, but it just caused resentment in me, not respect. As did the bully boy tactics of the local rozzers....ah yes, things were much better in the 60's and 70's; I remember them well.

[paulnix]

Until other shortfalls in care are sorted then no, sex change operations, boob jobs for teenagers unhappy that they are not big enough to do page three, fertility treatment for old mums who left it too long and plenty of others should not be funded by the NHS, myself I would go farther and limit more lifestyle type procedures, obvious differences are reconstructive surgery and preventative/corrective.

 

To have a sex change op on the NHS, then I guess a semi reversal to be able to carry a child, then a operation to have the baby delivered plus the reversal then reversed is just pandering to the patient, as a woman it's their right to want to be a man, but then it's their right as a woman to be a mother then as a mother it's their right to be a man again, no doubt they will be having counselling all this time and the costs mount up, there will be no end to what they demand and a as minority they get, while my neighbour died after having his 3rd bypass op cancelled, or my friends mother end up with a leg off below the knee because they put the foot operation off for a couple of weeks.

[islandgun]

taking most of the views on here to there illogical conclusion, the NHS should not pander to

Smokers

Drinkers,

Gluttons, including people who eat the wrong food

Druggies

Lazy people

Energetic people

Sportsmen, especially dangerous sports

The accident prone

Foreign people

Sexually active (same sex)

Over sexually active (opposite sex)

 

 

Im sure theres plenty more

[bostonmick]

taking most of the views on here to there illogical conclusion, the NHS should not pander to

Smokers

Drinkers,

Gluttons, including people who eat the wrong food

Druggies

Lazy people

Energetic people

Sportsmen, especially dangerous sports

The accident prone

Foreign people

Sexually active (same sex)

Over sexually active (opposite sex)

 

 

Im sure theres plenty more

I think you will find that smokers.drinkers.druggies.and lazy people are currently denied some treatment as it would be a waste of time and resources to treat them while they continue with the activities that caused the condition in the first place.whats the point of doing a expensive bypass operation only to have them go home and reach for the fags and booze again or the lazy overeating getting surgery to reduce their bulk for them to stop off at McDonald's on the way home and fill up with burgers before retiring to their armchairs in front of the TV again.as with all things costs have to be weighed against the benefits as a whole. Edited August 4, 2016 by bostonmick