Richie10 Posted August 9, 2016 Report Share Posted August 9, 2016 Hi, So reading about the benefits of loading other than steel on the forum, I am looking at getting some denser shot. All I can see is that Power shot, nice shot and ITX are available. Seems that HW13 is only possible to get from the States and I'm not going on any trips soon. So which have people had experience of using through the 10 bore? Which would people recommend. Thanks for any help. Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudpatten Posted August 9, 2016 Report Share Posted August 9, 2016 I know it`s not what you`ve asked for, but if I was you I`d stick with the steel in a 10 bore. Up to 5 mm steel shot is lethal well beyond ranges that most of us can consistently hit and kill at, plus it won`t be as expensive as some of the NTX alternatives you`re proposing where the price would be akin to setting fire to £5 notes with each pull of the trigger. It`s also worth pointing out that, for something like a 10 where you might not fire huge amounts of cartridges during the course of a season, the difference in ballistic characteristics and performance between the different shot materials would probably mean an awful lot of very expensive missing. I`ve stuck with big steel, if it`s range your after, through a 10 and thoroughly recommend it. It`s effective, affordable and shooting it accurately is a natural progression from your steel loaded 12 bore. Good luck with the choices you make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted August 9, 2016 Report Share Posted August 9, 2016 I disagree with Mudpatten. Denser shot like HW13 is far better than steel for knocking down high geese. It isn't anywhere near £5 a shot and I believe it patterns far better than an average steel load. I have killed plenty of high geese with steel, but when they're up there that little bit more, HW really knocks the stuffing out of them. Most of the people I shoot with, now mostly use HW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie10 Posted August 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2016 This is only available from the states? BPI don't list it currently. From what I have read you don't need the large payloads required from steel. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitebridges Posted August 9, 2016 Report Share Posted August 9, 2016 Apologies for my ignorance but what is HW? Is there a 3 1/2 inch 12 bore load available commercially? Sorry but i've never been a fan of steel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted August 9, 2016 Report Share Posted August 9, 2016 HW13 is heavyweight shot. It is a tungsten based shot I believe. It is readily available from Bucks run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitebridges Posted August 9, 2016 Report Share Posted August 9, 2016 HW13 is heavyweight shot. It is a tungsten based shot I believe. It is readily available from Bucks run. Thanks motty. Website failed when I looked. I'll research a bit more. Is it denser than hevi-shot does anyone know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONY R Posted August 9, 2016 Report Share Posted August 9, 2016 Thanks motty. Website failed when I looked. I'll research a bit more. Is it denser than hevi-shot does anyone know? it used to run around the 11 .98 ri 12.46 gram per cc zone, but its now from 12.2 to 12.73 grams per cc. environ mettals are notorious liars dont take my word for it do a google search Hevi shot was stupidly low in density originaly it was hardly any denser than lead . And to crown it all it was as round as coal dug off a spoil heap. Its got better with age is running in the 12s now and its rounder, but environ mettal upset the yanks with a product called hevi metal this was a steel mixed with hevi shot mix, and not exactly advertised as such if i got the whole story. it aparently worked ok some liked using it, but it did nothing for environs reputation which many had no time for anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONY R Posted August 9, 2016 Report Share Posted August 9, 2016 Ten has a lot of space to fill up if your running HW 18 or TSS etc, even with HW13 you have more spacing than other shot types spacing nothing compared to the price which by the time you get it here its probably as cheap to buy powershot from claygame esspecialy if you get stung for import tax. If i could turn back the clock i would buy only TSS HW18 whatever you want to call it, its impressive and its lethal enough to be run in as small as 7s and still be a killer on geese. With TSS you will end up with a 3oz load if you fill a wad so slieving down the loads with 16 bore gas checks and 16 bore steel wads gets the loads down to practical weights. As good as the HW shots are they still wound and you can still miss, its not magic you still need to do your part. I can put a pattern on a goose at 60 plus yards with the best of them, but HW shots patterns still open up at very similar ranges than steel or lead, the denser shot in TSS slows down less so this helps a little, but withHW 13 the density is not realy enough to give any density advantage, and as penatration is only part of the equasion, you as with any shot type, have to start compromising some where. Patterns are the key a 90 yard pattern from hw 13 will look like hell compared to a 60 yard pattern of steel BBBs, there is only so much you can do these are shotguns, so extending ulltimate ranges is possible, but mainly with TSS etc, HW 13 is not dense enough to give much more than 70 75 yards and still give a decent pattern of still lethal sized shot traveling at 600fps or better. What a load can potentialy do is one thing, but getting loads to acctualy perform at that range regards pattern is another thing altogether. Loads dont stop spreading out at 40yards, a 93% load at 40 yards quite often degrades into a 54% load at 60 yards with steel, a HW 13 load will strugle to do more than 93% at 40 yards and the 60 yard pattern could be similar to the steel load, And by 80 yards the HW13s lets give it an edge 60% at 60 yards .. the 80 yard load will look like hell in fact i dare say 70 would be interesting. Its better is any HW shot thats obvious to anyone, but its not all the answers either its still being thrown out of a shotgun, and there is a limit to how shotguns perform regardless of ga and shot type. And thats before the nut behind the butt throws his four peneth into the mix of things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokersmith Posted August 9, 2016 Report Share Posted August 9, 2016 I had several kilos of hevishot and it was awesome stuff. The health warning here is that I because it is lethal much further than sensible ranges, it does tempt you to stretch further than you should. I've found steel BBB's doing 1450 more than enough to reliably kill geese at ranges I am happy with ... plus it takes temptation away to risk a stretching shot when they are up there a bit more. With loads of steel still around me, I will be very happy to keep using this though the 10. When my ITM goes, I'll give Copper a whirl in the 8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONY R Posted August 9, 2016 Report Share Posted August 9, 2016 Copper is great in that it can be loaded in anything even old guns, its soft yet hard enough to pattern good, its denser than steel hense its makes less pressure in a given identical loading compared to steel, its hardness keeps pressures dow not quite at lead pressures because lead is slightly denser, but close. you can wad it up just how you want no bucket wads needed like steel or hevi, you can buffer it it responds positive to buffering, yet its not brittle like bismuth can be at high velocities, its hard enough to be sent at steel velocities if you want 1700fps or 1800 fps copper loads are an option if you wanted to go down this route the same as fast steel. Downside its not as cheap as lead but its quite good balisticaly. Negative for me with copper is i feel its only a matter of time until they ban it, its ducked under the radar so far only rotweiel FOB and B&P have comercialy loaded it so far, i think the industry is holding off because copper is toxic sadly im guessing it will be baned before too long, i hope i am wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted August 9, 2016 Report Share Posted August 9, 2016 For the money, itx is hard to beat. Last time I looked it was the best value Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONY R Posted August 9, 2016 Report Share Posted August 9, 2016 For the money, itx is hard to beat. Last time I looked it was the best value I dont know what ITX 13 is these days but think it will be cheaper than HW13. is itx 10 less than copper?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
widgeon man Posted August 9, 2016 Report Share Posted August 9, 2016 Ten has a lot of space to fill up if your running HW 18 or TSS etc, even with HW13 you have more spacing than other shot types spacing nothing compared to the price which by the time you get it here its probably as cheap to buy powershot from claygame esspecialy if you get stung for import tax. If i could turn back the clock i would buy only TSS HW18 whatever you want to call it, its impressive and its lethal enough to be run in as small as 7s and still be a killer on geese. With TSS you will end up with a 3oz load if you fill a wad so slieving down the loads with 16 bore gas checks and 16 bore steel wads gets the loads down to practical weights. As good as the HW shots are they still wound and you can still miss, its not magic you still need to do your part. I can put a pattern on a goose at 60 plus yards with the best of them, but HW shots patterns still open up at very similar ranges than steel or lead, the denser shot in TSS slows down less so this helps a little, but withHW 13 the density is not realy enough to give any density advantage, and as penatration is only part of the equasion, you as with any shot type, have to start compromising some where. Patterns are the key a 90 yard pattern from hw 13 will look like hell compared to a 60 yard pattern of steel BBBs, there is only so much you can do these are shotguns, so extending ulltimate ranges is possible, but mainly with TSS etc, HW 13 is not dense enough to give much more than 70 75 yards and still give a decent pattern of still lethal sized shot traveling at 600fps or better. What a load can potentialy do is one thing, but getting loads to acctualy perform at that range regards pattern is another thing altogether. Loads dont stop spreading out at 40yards, a 93% load at 40 yards quite often degrades into a 54% load at 60 yards with steel, a HW 13 load will strugle to do more than 93% at 40 yards and the 60 yard pattern could be similar to the steel load, And by 80 yards the HW13s lets give it an edge 60% at 60 yards .. the 80 yard load will look like hell in fact i dare say 70 would be interesting. Its better is any HW shot thats obvious to anyone, but its not all the answers either its still being thrown out of a shotgun, and there is a limit to how shotguns perform regardless of ga and shot type. And thats before the nut behind the butt throws his four peneth into the mix of things. My findings are totally the opposite from yours TONY R ..... HW13 is extremely effective and holds a pattern further than steel. My 2-1/8oz ten load took several pinks cleanly last season, one at roughly 45 yards had no less than 5 pellets through the head. I'm not going to get into range, as I have seen enough people miss a standard 40 yard driven to know this is most people's limit. In this respect steel in letter sizes will kill cleanly all day long. If you are not a compitent shot( not suggesting anyone is or isn't!)I would not shoot large shot or dense materials.... They pattern tight, don't string much and therefore have little room for 'error' they do however hold pattern and penetration at range where smaller steel shot falls off very quickly! better to load tungsten, large bismuth or steel in 1's And limit your range in that case. If you are practiced, confident and have tested your cartridge,gun, choke then HW13 or 18 will allow you to maximise the distance YOU can accurately place shot on target...... It does not mean if you can't hit 1/3 shooting at out of range birds to fluke one...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted August 9, 2016 Report Share Posted August 9, 2016 Itx 10, used to be good value. Dunno if it is now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONY R Posted August 9, 2016 Report Share Posted August 9, 2016 My findings are totally the opposite from yours TONY R ..... HW13 is extremely effective and holds a pattern further than steel. My 2-1/8oz ten load took several pinks cleanly last season, one at roughly 45 yards had no less than 5 pellets through the head. I'm not going to get into range, as I have seen enough people miss a standard 40 yard driven to know this is most people's limit. In this respect steel in letter sizes will kill cleanly all day long. If you are not a compitent shot( not suggesting anyone is or isn't!)I would not shoot large shot or dense materials.... They pattern tight, don't string much and therefore have little room for 'error' they do however hold pattern and penetration at range where smaller steel shot falls off very quickly! better to load tungsten, large bismuth or steel in 1's And limit your range in that case. If you are practiced, confident and have tested your cartridge,gun, choke then HW13 or 18 will allow you to maximise the distance YOU can accurately place shot on target...... It does not mean if you can't hit 1/3 shooting at out of range birds to fluke one...... HW13s lower volume due to mass and mass will indeed help hold patterns, and this is even more evident with HW18TSS, but even TSS starts to degrage roughly the same time as steel or lead. high antamony nickel plated lead is 11.34 grams its not a million miles off HW13s 12.73, , But HW13 significantly down on HW18 TSS. Easy solved load your 2 18th ten load put it through your terror 705 720 its your choice pattern it at 40 yards lets see if its 93% or more, then again pattern it at 60 yards lets see how much better it is than my claim for hw13 of 60%. and then pattern it at 80 yards and trust me it will look like hell. Just like i said. Just try it you will see im not that far off. More than 60% at 60 yards is good going for any load any shot type regardless. 80 yards a range your HW13 will still be lethal at, will be inpractical for reliable kills due to the pattern having too many voids in it, not saying geese wont die at 80 yards just saying its not a reliable humane option at that range not with HW13. TSS is a lot more dense a lot more pellets still lethal at 80 but even that is getting there on effective range, and remember thats not even taking the shooters ability into account. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6.5x55SE Posted August 9, 2016 Report Share Posted August 9, 2016 IMHO and being in a very fortunate position of being able to shoot both Foreshore and Inland Geese regularly 2-3 times a week through out the season Steel kills very well but what i call gracefully where as PWS-Hevi Shot and HW13 kills with Authority. But as already been mentioned no matter what calibre gun payload or type of shot you use it still has to be Placed in the right place for a clean kill. A example from last season. A Fowler wounded a approximately 60yrd high Pink which turned to me along with the Skien that morning i was using my 20ga due to Fog being forecast. Using a 1oz of PWS and 1oz of HW13 I first killed the wounded Pink then another. On the Seawall I gave the Fowler his injured Pink. Thanking and taking it from me he asked what I had shot it with as it was so well hit and the height it was. He was most put out to find my 20ga had out gunned his 10ga but as I tried my best to explain he could have been using a 4ga hitting it up the Butt would have resulted in the same out come. Apologise to the OP for the essay. I would try some PWS say 1-5/8oz in your 10ga I've just loaded some for my Brother and they truly Pattern mind blowingly at range definitely further than he is capable of regularly kill a Goose at 👍👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
widgeon man Posted August 9, 2016 Report Share Posted August 9, 2016 As I said Tony, I'm not going to quote distances and I don't want to knowingly shoot at geese at 80 yards either......... All I said was my ten patterns HW very well, and as Boyd has stated it smacks geese harder than steel at range. I can't comment on tss as I have not used and I only talk about something I have practical experience of....... Though I can obviously see its potential. I have not 'tuned' my HW load in the 10 or 12ga, because in the field it hasn't shown need. But then again I would like to think I'm pulling the trigger on birds in range A friend and very good fowler has a load for the 12ga which will put 60% patterns at 60 yards with enough energy for pinks.........and its steel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONY R Posted August 9, 2016 Report Share Posted August 9, 2016 As I said Tony, I'm not going to quote distances and I don't want to knowingly shoot at geese at 80 yards either......... All I said was my ten patterns HW very well, and as Boyd has stated it smacks geese harder than steel at range. I can't comment on tss as I have not used and I only talk about something I have practical experience of....... Though I can obviously see its potential. I have not 'tuned' my HW load in the 10 or 12ga, because in the field it hasn't shown need. But then again I would like to think I'm pulling the trigger on birds in range A friend and very good fowler has a load for the 12ga which will put 60% patterns at 60 yards with enough energy for pinks.........and its steel. Nothing to disagree with there, Steel is good for 60% at 60 yards HW 13 is capable of that too. Bit i am struggling to undrstand is just why your finding are totaly the oposite to mine, they look pretty similar to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
widgeon man Posted August 9, 2016 Report Share Posted August 9, 2016 The useable pattern on HW 4's or 2's would be far greater than steel in like for like loads so BB, BBB OR T SHOT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie10 Posted August 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2016 I have just got some Powershot, see how I get on with that first and how it compares with steel. Will put that through a kicks modified choke, if it isn't too tight. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONY R Posted August 10, 2016 Report Share Posted August 10, 2016 Powershot as far as i know is HW13, These heavy shot types can be put through tight chokes i cant imagine the kicks having any issues, i have shot HW13 through an Briley INVX10 turkey choke that is ported and 0.695 constriction gave no issues your mod should be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONY R Posted August 10, 2016 Report Share Posted August 10, 2016 (edited) Nothing to disagree with there, Steel is good for 60% at 60 yards HW 13 is capable of that too. Bit i am struggling to undrstand is just why your finding are totaly the oposite to mine, they look pretty similar to me. This is my take on HW13 i know what it can do it bears no mystery for me i have used it and prior to TSS i felt it was good, Now not so much TSS9s will perform like 6 HW13 5 TSS is......Well its something else altogether. So here is my take on HW13 in 4s and a model to illustrate its potential performance for those who dont know on here. . Well If you took A KPY generated impression on two 28gram loads one of steel the other one HW13 in no 4 shot both on 1410fps at 9ft, you would need Steel Fshot to out penatrate HW13s no4s the F steel would be good for 1.5 inch into balistics gell at 108.9 yards. HW13 4s will make 103.5 yards 39 pellets for the steel and 115 for the 4 HW13. there is no quesstion HW13 will penatrate to over 100 yards Now look at your 2 18th oz HW13 load of 4s in your ten, 245 pellets and ill give you 1410fps to keep it simple you will probably be at least 70fps under that though in reality, but just for debate . And again for debate ill give you 70% of those pellets at 60 yards. my new jebs delivers 70% at 60 with 9 TSS who knows maybe you got one i dont know. Anyway you get 172 pellets again in giving you to 0.5 pellet. so moving on to steel a 1.5 oz load of F steel 65 pellets at 60 yards lets say it manages 54% feasable as i do think HW shot holds a slightly better pattern and can certainly run more choke so lets call the steel load 54% at 60 yards, so we are talking 35 pellets. OK with HW13 we got technicaly more still lethal pellets, but with the steel Fs they are out penatrating HW13 have far bigger wound chanel lots more cold air coming in fast blood loss etc, but we only just got about five yards of more penatration re range and the BAD news here we only have 35 pellets compared to your 172 pellets. now thats one huge huge advantage. How can that ever be beated by steel. ? Well simple answer it cant. Edited August 10, 2016 by TONY R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roughshooter Posted August 10, 2016 Report Share Posted August 10, 2016 I have some 4mm TSS - test fired a 50g load at 65 yards at a pattern paper stuck onto some 18mm OPG board. Shot penetrated the board fully at 65 yards............... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted August 10, 2016 Report Share Posted August 10, 2016 Because I don't know, is steel F shot 0.22 in dia. with 39 pellets/oz? Many thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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