Sprocker chasing game

[got_the_eye_in]

Hi all I have got an issue with my sprocker giving chase and not listening to the whistle. She is doing really well with everything else and is a really hard hunter but when a bird flushes under her nose she gives chase. This is more apparent in open ground and it is only when it flushes under her nose. She chases and barks as she is going and pays no attention to the whistle. When there is no game she will stop on the whistle and recall is good. Please help me!!!! Also I don't have access to a rabbit pen. Is there anything that I can try? Thanks

[old'un]

does she stop on verbal commands when on game? (flush)

 

Whistle stop training (no game) does she stop on the spot and I mean on the spot when you blow the stop whistle?

[E.w.]

How old is your sprocker, and has she been steady previously.

Edited January 1, 2017 by E.w.

[scotslad]

It sounds like too much too young, assuming it is a young dog.

 

Almost every working dog gets steadily worse as the season goes on (atleast mine do ), it will realise it can get away with misbehaving as it doesn't get a ####ing the way it would in training/not so easy to stop them, often owners are not concentrating on dog 100% (esp if shooting or blethering to mates, working a radio in beating line) usually plenty of other dogs worse than ur's to learn bad habits from, and esp if ur picking up a few runners u start asking ur dog to chase and peg game.

All can be very confusing and exciting and plenty of chances/temptions to misbehave

 

There is an old saying the best way to ruin a well trained dog is to take it shooting.

 

I'd say rest the dog for rest of season or at very least under strict control so it can't chase, even on lead or at heel all day. Making it sit while other dogs are chasing about at flushing point etc. But be careful that dosn't encourage the barking/noise

Then ask if u can use the keepers woods/drives aftr season is over and try to and use them like a big rabbit pen and rty to stop it, which can be easier said than done

 

Other option if just a young dog and not too bad for chasing yet, is to keep it under strict conrol and hope it has not learned/engrained the chasing too much, u never know it might forget by next season if u have caught it early enough and plenty stop whistle/control work throu close season working some diistraction and scent in later on near to season start

[ShootingEgg]

Im on my second season with my springer and he has started doing it. Am going to have to work on steadying him this summer. Just figuring out how too in the best way.

[got_the_eye_in]

Thanks for the replies. She is still fairly young and it is her first season. She will stop on the whistle straight away when not on game! She doesn't stop on verbal commands either. She just carrys on chasing untill the bird gets well in front of her. Can it be turned around or will she always do this now?

[scotslad]

Are u in the beating line or shooting over it?

[old'un]

This sounds like a case of running before you have learnt to walk, this young dog is not under control (not trained) stop beating/shooting over her, put the gun away and go back a step and concentrate on the dog, work the dog as close as you can and be ready to move in when you think there might be a flush, if you have ground that gives plenty of flushes try and stop her before a flush, move in and make sure you are in a position to stop her then kick the flush yourself and be ready to move in.

 

You will have an uphill battle with your dog if you do not stop this now, most people I see with young dogs that run-in are over eager to get their dog on game before they have the dog under control, the dog must be made to understand that the stop whistle means stop, when working your dog on ground that contains no game blow the stop whistle and watch the dog carefully, you must not let the dog make any steps forward after this whistle, if it does calmly walk to the dog and left it gently and take it back to the very spot it should have stopped at and give the stop whistle again and praise, never let it get away with taking a few steps forward because the next step is full gallop.

 

Just one other point with regards the stop whistle or any other command for that matter, never, never, give a commanded unless you are in a position to drive that command home, it usually goes like this......you blow the stop whistle, the dog does not stop, you blow it again and it still does not stop you then spit the whistle out and start shouting at the top of your voice, sit you little ******, and guess what the dog takes not one bit of notice, seen it that many times mind you it does make me smile when the dog comes back and they look really pleased with them selves only for the owner to give it a good thrashing.

 

Think this guy is in your neck of the woods, don't know much about this him but what I have heard about him was good, he also has a rabbit pen which might help you, give him a call.....http://www.allanatkinson.co.uk/Gundogs.html

[got_the_eye_in]

This only happens in the beating line. I will try to keep her close in or even at heal for the remainder of the season. I think that you are right in that I was a bit eager to get her out with her being my first dog. Thanks again for the replies

[scotslad]

I'd agree with wot old un hs said.

Ur so right about dogs punishing dogs when they actually return

 

Most dogs will tend to pull on on scent and generally behave less well the more scent/birds/excitement around, and as season goes on wil pick up bad habits. So a eating line is ful of everything excitement, big numbers of birds other dogs etc

 

U really want to nip this in bud now before it becomes deeply ingrained as u will then have major problems for the next 10 yrswith that dog (and most likely any other dog u work beside it) as it can be a very hard problem to solve.

 

U'd probably be best to stop beating for the season and ask keeper if u can train in some of his woods off season when u can set it up so u can stop the dog (long line) after u really have done a lot of sreadying training.

 

U could take it beating on the lead but that could/can start dogs whinning/yipping or barking with excitement and frustration

 

I'd also say start getting a few lessons or join a training club, usually well worth it if its a decent trainer, and remember when u think about the cost of a trainer against having a dog that is a PITA for the next 10yrs, makes any outlay well worth it

[old'un]

My advice would be to stop taking her beating, but if you must go keep her on a lead, seen plenty of promising young dogs spoilt when used in the beating line, you will have very little control over your dog when in the thick stuff, plus other beaters will be shouting and blowing whistles at their own dogs, not the best place to control or steady a young dog.

[UKPoacher]

I echo Old 'Un in that you need to progress training steadily and not rush into it.

 

For stop and recall training it is vitally important to build the training program from getting the dog to obey your commands when it has nothing to preoccupy it right through to when it is in full flight trying to catch a fast runner or lightly pricked bird. The first part is easy, but then you have to move the exercise on.

 

One way to do this is to include it in your retrieve training. Send the dog for a retrieve and then stop it and recall the dog. As soon as the dog returns correctly send it again and let it complete the retrieve. Not ever time and at different distances from the retrieve article so that the dog doesn't pre-empt you. That builds up obedience in the dog whilst it is preoccupied with something else.

 

Another way is to use a distraction to break the dog's preoccupation. For example in your case have your dog on a line, such as an extending leash while quartering through cover where you know that the dog will find game. As soon as you see the flush, check the dog and give it the stop or redirect signal. That teaches the dog not to switch off when it has flushed.

[ips]

I steadied to flush and avoided the chase by training a "gone now" as the bird or bunny flushes I use a turn whistle to break her away from the flush and rewarded the behaviour by hunting her on. I started initially with dummies as in throwing dummies then blowing turn and hunting her away then I did the same while dogging in. The theory is that a turn is easier for the dog than a stop as the dog is still doing something it likes (hunting) as opposed to stopping doing something it likes (chasing)after this breakaway from flush was well established, (a matter of weeks dogging in) it was quite easy to get a sit or stop to flush.

I have to say though that I am a novice and I train by reward, the above was formulated by myself and a friend as a way to train steady to flush in a way that suited my methods and my level of experience.

The vid is of me training this early on with dummies and using a ball as a reward.

 

[UKPoacher]

I steadied to flush and avoided the chase by training a "gone now" as the bird or bunny flushes I use a turn whistle to break her away from the flush and rewarded the behaviour by hunting her on. I started initially with dummies as in throwing dummies then blowing turn and hunting her away then I did the same while dogging in. The theory is that a turn is easier for the dog than a stop as the dog is still doing something it likes (hunting) as opposed to stopping doing something it likes (chasing)after this breakaway from flush was well established, (a matter of weeks dogging in) it was quite easy to get a sit or stop to flush.

I have to say though that I am a novice and I train by reward, the above was formulated by myself and a friend as a way to train steady to flush in a way that suited my methods and my level of experience.

The vid is of me training this early on with dummies and using a ball as a reward.

 

 

[got_the_eye_in]

UK POACHER thank you for that I will definitely be attempting it

[Lloyd90]

On 02/01/2017 at 18:23, ips said:

I steadied to flush and avoided the chase by training a "gone now" as the bird or bunny flushes I use a turn whistle to break her away from the flush and rewarded the behaviour by hunting her on. I started initially with dummies as in throwing dummies then blowing turn and hunting her away then I did the same while dogging in. The theory is that a turn is easier for the dog than a stop as the dog is still doing something it likes (hunting) as opposed to stopping doing something it likes (chasing)after this breakaway from flush was well established, (a matter of weeks dogging in) it was quite easy to get a sit or stop to flush.

I have to say though that I am a novice and I train by reward, the above was formulated by myself and a friend as a way to train steady to flush in a way that suited my methods and my level of experience.

The vid is of me training this early on with dummies and using a ball as a reward.

 

 

 

So after the flush, you stop / turn the dog and throw a receive? 

How did it work crossing over onto real game? 

Is the dog steady now?

[Saltings]

On ‎02‎/‎01‎/‎2017 at 18:29, UKPoacher said:

 

distraction  tactics  to make the dog concentrate on the handler is key excellent video demonstration 👍 100% obedience above all else  ,well done sir,          before game  and even then pick up 8 out of 10 retrieves yourself given terrain  the dog must not hunt every shot, saves, running in , obedience handling is key  , the dogs breeding will retrieve naturally (obedience is paramount)   most problems can be traced back to basic training,  the dog can retrieve itself, calling it off a dead bird and cast it to a runner  is down to handling  ,or leave to picking after shooting ends on the pond , its   down to handling to work his/her dog to retrieve and dispatch game as quickly as passible to save suffering  , handling is about putting your dog down wind in an area putting your hands in your pockets, shut up , and let your dogs nose go to work into the wind and retrieve,  (the quietest handlers and the best dogs) nobody knows their names ,          a self employed dog fighting others running a muck spitting retrieves out to pick  another , doing what they like is never welcome  

Edited August 13, 2019 by Saltings