wymberley Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 (edited) http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-35198839 https://www.gov.uk/government/news/410m-raf-atlas-aircraft-support-contract-secures-at-least-400-uk-jobs I'm not quite sure now whether it was Air Works or Marshalls but I believe the latter when in the mid 60s we took the Beverley refurbishment 'in house' at RAF ST Athan from the contractor and in so doing saved £30,000 per aircraft. Are they re-inventing the wheel or is the tapper's hammer cracked. Or, perhaps, we just don't have enough bods or the skills any more. Edited January 5, 2017 by wymberley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 What is wrong now? They have to be serviced somewhere and Marshalls are Herc specialists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wymondley Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 Outsource everything. It seems to be the way of things now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisheruk Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 Good for post Brexit trade figures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted January 5, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 Outsource everything. It seems to be the way of things now. Yep. Wonder how much it'll cost to ship a Marshalls' rigger (the RAF don't have any any more) out to whack a battle damage patch on one in Syria or points east when it hits the fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapp Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 Marshalls have been maintaining the transport fleet for years. It costs a lot less to outsource than maintain a force of suitably trained servicemen. Just the modern world I'm afraid - we have a very small expeditionary military but most of the logistical support is contracted out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted January 5, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 Marshalls have been maintaining the transport fleet for years. It costs a lot less to outsource than maintain a force of suitably trained servicemen. Just the modern world I'm afraid - we have a very small expeditionary military but most of the logistical support is contracted out. Right enough. The way things are going (have already gone?), the RAF could do with a name change - RAS? Or actually re-invent the wheel and go for the RFC. Force is largely out of the equation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 Marshalls have employed an awful lot of the Techies that the RAF were silly enough to let go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 You haven't been to saints for a very long time.... The multi million pound "super hanger" is now a car factory of sorts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted January 6, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 You haven't been to saints for a very long time.... The multi million pound "super hanger" is now a car factory of sorts! No way! Had enough of walking back from Cardiff very early on Sunday mornings after a skin full. That concrete surface on the Rhoose straight was a killer on the feet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugs Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 Basically engineering in the RAF has been destroyed.....hardly any 3rd line or indeed 2nd line engineering goes on, all out-sourced, going to be even worse if and when the F35 arrives. Disgrace! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
achosenman Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 Basically engineering in the RAF has been destroyed.....hardly any 3rd line or indeed 2nd line engineering goes on, all out-sourced, going to be even worse if and when the F35 arrives. Disgrace! Yes but outsourced to a UK based company employing UK citizens...who pay tax and spend money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 My nephew is a fast jet tech in the RAF Where his squadrons jets go he goes, They also have a repair facility on base which I suppose is like a service centre which is permanently based there but not attached to any squadron, all the fast jets go there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason_ox Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 My nephew is a fast jet tech in the RAF Where his squadrons jets go he goes, They also have a repair facility on base which I suppose is like a service centre which is permanently based there but not attached to any squadron, all the fast jets go there A good friend of mine is a tech on the typhoons at the minute, he has been in for about 6 or 7 years says that the techs and others are so fed up with the lack of support and personnel levels being so low a lot of them are jumping ship and leaving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugs Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 (edited) Yes but outsourced to a UK based company employing UK citizens...who pay tax and spend money. Some of whom you speak off were ex RAF engineers, they wont be getting that employment opportunity in the future. The RAF had good engineers and was quite capable of doing most of the AC maintenance. Point being like most of our forces it's been decimated. Forces should be capable of doing the job without civvy contractors having to do maintenence on an ejection seat (as example), some of which had to be carried out whilst on ops or like others have said back to the hanger for extended maintenence but still within the RAF Edited January 6, 2017 by Pugs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted January 6, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 Basically engineering in the RAF has been destroyed.....hardly any 3rd line or indeed 2nd line engineering goes on, all out-sourced, going to be even worse if and when the F35 arrives. Disgrace! +1 so it seems. Heavy landing on Ascension which needs an oleo change or a bird strike at Nellis that has taken out the windscreen, the radome and the radar. Who's going to sort it or are these civilian lads all reservists that can be dispatched at a moments notice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted January 6, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 Some of whom you speak off were ex RAF engineers, they wont be getting that employment opportunity in the future. The RAF had good engineers and was quite capable of doing most all of the AC maintenance. Point being like most of our forces it's been decimated. Forces should be capable of doing the job without civvy contractors having to do maintenence on an ejection seat (as example), some of which had to be carried out whilst on ops Very sorry, Pugs, slight amendment there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugs Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 +1 so it seems. Heavy landing on Ascension which needs an oleo change or a bird strike at Nellis that has taken out the windscreen, the radome and the radar. Who's going to sort it or are these civilian lads all reservists that can be dispatched at a moments notice? Yep, can imagine it, Red Flag @ Nellis and the RAF have to call out BAE.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason_ox Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 I've certainly seen jobs at Brize Norton working for government contracors that require you to sign up as a reservist as part of the role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
achosenman Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 Some of whom you speak off were ex RAF engineers, they wont be getting that employment opportunity in the future. The RAF had good engineers and was quite capable of doing most of the AC maintenance. Point being like most of our forces it's been decimated. Forces should be capable of doing the job without civvy contractors having to do maintenence on an ejection seat (as example), some of which had to be carried out whilst on ops or like others have said back to the hanger for extended maintenence but still within the RAF Not me, never served in the RAF. Being in the trade of aviation, I do understand you don't need service personnel on the spanners for the vast majority of work carried out, especially in peacetime. All armed services have an ever shrinking budget, and need to maintain fighting effectiveness. Training and paying for routine maintenance bods, is no longer a luxury that they can afford. There are plenty of civvie contractors that can accommodate the routine maintenance of every bit of kit in use by all armed services around the World today...after all it was designed and built by civvies in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted January 6, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 Not me, never served in the RAF. Being in the trade of aviation, I do understand you don't need service personnel on the spanners for the vast majority of work carried out, especially in peacetime. All armed services have an ever shrinking budget, and need to maintain fighting effectiveness. Training and paying for routine maintenance bods, is no longer a luxury that they can afford. There are plenty of civvie contractors that can accommodate the routine maintenance of every bit of kit in use by all armed services around the World today...after all it was designed and built by civvies in the first place. All perfectly true. Quite a high percentage of aircraft losses in WW11 was down to poor or lack of maintenance. Technology then, as compared to now, meant that it was possible to quickly train the engineers. This can't/won't happen today. Consequently, unless our civilian guys are all perfectly content to be conscripted and sent wherever necessary when it hits the fan (if this is considered a non event, then why have armed forces in the first place?) then we're in bother. There used to be a well known sign near the gates of one particular airfield in Germany which stated: "Our role in peacetime is to prepare for war and don't you forget it." If we think we don't need the bods as well as the aircraft/aircrew and certainly don't want to pay for them, why not just knock the whole thing on the head, disband the Forces and let someone else look after us? If you want to know how close we came to failure back in the early 80s, read Vulcan 607 (which was flying on my rivets ) and then bear in mind that we're a damned sight 'closer to the edge' now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
achosenman Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 (edited) Our role in peacetime is to prepare for war and don't you forget it Yep at the hight of the Cold War. No rivets these days, just carbon fibre and a myriad of other exotic materials. When was the last time you saw an autoclave at a front line airbase? Electronics these days are mostly old box out, new box in, return suspect unit to repair base. Not only that, but some modern boxes will configure themselves for whatever role the slot they've been inserted into. I would personally prefer to have well funded forces and everything in house, but that just isn't going to happen. Too little money for too many demands is the reality these days, not helped by the wilful squandering by those in Westminster aided and abetted by the liberal left. Edited January 6, 2017 by achosenman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickS Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 There we go again...blame the "liberal left" who have not been in power for more than 8 years rather than face the fact that Tory governments are no better and arguably worse. What is missing is any kind of coherent planning and joined-up thinking. In today's Times there is an article about how the Royal Navy are having to save £500 million as poor negotiations mean that there is a commitment to building vessels that are need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
achosenman Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 There we go again...blame the "liberal left" who have not been in power for more than 8 years rather than face the fact that Tory governments are no better and arguably worse. What is missing is any kind of coherent planning and joined-up thinking. In today's Times there is an article about how the Royal Navy are having to save £500 million as poor negotiations mean that there is a commitment to building vessels that are need. Firstly it takes time for policy changes to filter through. Just because Cleggie got the big E, doesn't mean we're not still paying the price. Secondly, what I mean by liberal left is aimed at all those who believe that somehow we the taxpayer should foot the bill. The whims of those with utopian dreams and ideals who sound off at the drop of a hat helps ensure the NHS is paying for all and sundry instead of those entitled to it's provisions. The handout culture that allows feckless parents to breed like rabbits and we somehow have to pay. The stupid idea that we give billions away to countries with a space program etc. The amount squandered is staggering and indefensible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVB Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 I thought we had outsourced our armed forces to a company called USofA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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