Topgun113 Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 All, I've got a al391 2 and was out shooting the other day and everything I was shooting high, so was having to aim low by about a foot on everything, I even pattern tested at 30 yards with one eye closed looking down the rib and still shooting high by about a foot! Is this me being ridiculous or is there something that can be done? Many thanks for any feedback Topgun113 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnDeere6630 Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 use the shims to increase the drop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsonicnat Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 Try this. SEE MORE OF THE BARREL WHEN MOUNTING. Your vision of the target then will be below the barrel. As you only see the barrel in periferall vision.. It will make you shoot LOWER.. So if you do not want to alter the gun,try this.. It means you will have to LEARN YOUR SIGHT PICTURE..Good Luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topgun113 Posted February 27, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 (edited) I shoot better by closing my eye and and on my auto I have two beads one half way down and one obviously at the end, would the shims make a difference still? Thanks for your replies Edited February 27, 2017 by Topgun113 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsonicnat Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 So what you are saying the gun is shooting FLAT. SO,,,SEE some barrel between the pins,the front pin will appear higher,which in turn puts the target below the barrel,pattern plate it,you will see what I mean.. Probably get bells and whistles for saying it,,lol. Try it anyway.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 Try this. SEE MORE OF THE BARREL WHEN MOUNTING. Your vision of the target then will be below the barrel. As you only see the barrel in periferall vision.. It will make you shoot LOWER.. So if you do not want to alter the gun,try this.. It means you will have to LEARN YOUR SIGHT PICTURE..Good Luck. So what you are saying the gun is shooting FLAT. SO,,,SEE some barrel between the pins,the front pin will appear higher,which in turn puts the target below the barrel,pattern plate it,you will see what I mean.. Probably get bells and whistles for saying it,,lol. Try it anyway.. Unless I've misunderstood what you're saying, is this right. Seeing more of the barrel means that your eye is above it which means in turn that you'll shoot high. The muzzle may well appear to be below the target but the barrel line itself will be shooting above it. Depending on what you're shooting, the amount varies but shooting high has its advantages. Whether or not the shims will correct that amount remains to be seen. Best see a competent coach/fitter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsonicnat Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 (edited) 1/8" at the barrel is Feet at 30yds.. Unless I've misunderstood what you're saying, is this right. Seeing more of the barrel means that your eye is above it which means in turn that you'll shoot high. The muzzle may well appear to be below the target but the barrel line itself will be shooting above it. Nearly there.. If the barrel looks high,you will shoot lower,if the front of barrel is Low you will higher,,,Because the target is Below the barrel.. Chriky even I am getting slightly confused.lol.lol. Edited February 27, 2017 by subsonicnat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 1/8" at the barrel is Feet at 30yds.. Unless I've misunderstood what you're saying, is this right. Seeing more of the barrel means that your eye is above it which means in turn that you'll shoot high. The muzzle may well appear to be below the target but the barrel line itself will be shooting above it. Nearly there.. If the barrel looks high,you will shoot lower,if the front of barrel is Low you will higher,,,Because the target is Below the barrel.. Chriky even I am getting slightly confused.lol.lol. I'm totally confused. The OP would be better off looking at losing 1/8" or more at the comb rather than where the barrel is pointing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zipdog Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 (edited) 1/8" at the barrel is Feet at 30yds.. Unless I've misunderstood what you're saying, is this right. Seeing more of the barrel means that your eye is above it which means in turn that you'll shoot high. The muzzle may well appear to be below the target but the barrel line itself will be shooting above it. Nearly there.. If the barrel looks high,you will shoot lower,if the front of barrel is Low you will higher,,,Because the target is Below the barrel.. Chriky even I am getting slightly confused.lol.lol. I not sure that is true, or Iv misunderstood your wording! The more of the rib you see the higher the gun will shoot! If you screw your head right down on the stock so you can only see the bead and no rib you will shoot low! Edited February 27, 2017 by zipdog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsonicnat Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 Draw a straight line along the barrel.. Lift the barrel above this straight line,it would be shooting,right.. Now,because your eye is Fixed at the rear,you will SEE MORE OF THE BARREL,!Right.. If you then DROP THE END OF THE BARREL,,To the origanal line,,it will shoot lower,,because the origanal line is now lower than the straight line you started with.. The Cross you orignaly shot at is lower than the line you first percieved.. Taken to the EXTREME,,If you Bent the barrel UP,,And shot at the same Cross,you would have to put the front pin on target,but would be lower,because the barrel is bent higher.. Hence why a very good shot can adapt to where the gun he has borrowed is shooting.. Altering the gun is no different to sltering your sight plain.. You do not bend the barrels to shoot,left and right targets,same principal.. It may feel more comfortable,buy if you do NOT GET CONSISTENT GUN MOUTING,Even altered,you will not shoot well all the time...oh lor.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zipdog Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 (edited) Draw a straight line along the barrel.. Lift the barrel above this straight line,it would be shooting,right.. Now,because your eye is Fixed at the rear,you will SEE MORE OF THE BARREL,!Right.. If you then DROP THE END OF THE BARREL,,To the origanal line,,it will shoot lower,,because the origanal line is now lower than the straight line you started with.. The Cross you orignaly shot at is lower than the line you first percieved.. Taken to the EXTREME,,If you Bent the barrel UP,,And shot at the same Cross,you would have to put the front pin on target,but would be lower,because the barrel is bent higher.. Hence why a very good shot can adapt to where the gun he has borrowed is shooting.. Altering the gun is no different to sltering your sight plain.. You do not bend the barrels to shoot,left and right targets,same principal.. It may feel more comfortable,buy if you do NOT GET CONSISTENT GUN MOUTING,Even altered,you will not shoot well all the time...oh lor.. I'm sure there is some science in your statements, but it's seems incredibly complex. To speak in simple terms, the higher you lift your head off the stock the higher your gun will shoot. The lower you push your head on the stock the lower your gun will shoot . To answer the OP questions try push your head down right onto the stock or alternatively gather up a bit less cheek. This will make your gun shoot lower. Edited February 27, 2017 by zipdog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsonicnat Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 I'm sure there is some science in your statements, but it's seems incredibly complex. To speak in simple terms, the higher you lift your head off the stock the higher your gun will shoot. The lower you push your head on the stock the lower your gun will shoot . To answer the OP questions try push your head down right onto the stock or alternatively gather up a bit less cheek. This will make your gun shoot lower. Yes that is Correct,same as rifle shooting you move your eye (Rear) the way you want to raise or lower POI..,,But sometimes your cheek cannot be lowered ENOUGH,,,..In which case,alter the way your gun is shooting,, NOT RAISING YOUR EYE.. But seeing a slightly more of the Rib..(Simple...lol.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topgun113 Posted February 27, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 Sorry for the confusion 😂 Basically I was out pigeon decoying , and found out that I was having to aim below them which isn't what I want when I'm shooting! I shut my left eye when shooting and look down the gun/rib when I'm shooting, some will say it's wrong but It's just what works best for me. Toogun113 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 (edited) I'm sure there is some science in your statements, but it's seems incredibly complex. To speak in simple terms, the higher you lift your head off the stock the higher your gun will shoot. The lower you push your head on the stock the lower your gun will shoot . To answer the OP questions try push your head down right onto the stock or alternatively gather up a bit less cheek. This will make your gun shoot lower. But simpler still. If your only problem is shooting high, keep your head on the stock, don't be tempted to change your mount, but simply get the comb height sorted by any of the usual means and possibly with the aid of a coach/fitter. Edited February 27, 2017 by wymberley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 Well if the op wasn't confused at first he is now 😁 I know I am. See more rib will raise poi see less rib and poi is lower. Simples. With respect some of the above posts don't make any sense to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wb123 Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 (edited) To the op, ignore this thread there is too much contradictory advice. If you have the money and time with somewhere suitable available get a proper gun fitting. Failing that buy a book and read a few different peoples guides. http://www.positiveshooting.com/GunFittingP1Main.html That is where i started, lots more reading, some experimentation, a cheap laser boresighter, a couple of books, and i think i have the basics understood well enough for diy use for my own guns. I would still like to arrange a professional gunfitting sometime. This book is my favourite, https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0948253657/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 It goes into enough detail to understand the basics and appreciate some the complexities beyond the scope of the book. Like home reloading by the time you have bought the books, some kit, read more stuff, played a bit, and repeat its cheaper to pay someone else to do it. Much more fun to diy though. Edit, if you have a semi with shims it should be an easy and cheap job once you understand what you are adjusting and why. Edited February 27, 2017 by Wb123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsonicnat Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 Edit, if you have a semi with shims it should be an easy and cheap job once you understand what you are adjusting and why. As the chap can see both pins,,lowering the stock would put his eye below the action.??. I with respect to all I am not an idiot,I have made a 48" barrel 4 Bore,,Complete.??. I used to alter the stocks and finish them for my local shops customers.. I never had one complaint,in fact nothing but excellent praise.. I will not go further into this thread as it attracts people who only want to complain.. If the chap was nearer I would have hm shooting spot on,,,in 3 shots or less.. Taught a chap last week,,shooting high,,1 shot.. It was corrected.. Thanks for replys,but not my Topic,,just replying.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sishyplops Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 Topgun is this a new gun to you? Or has it just started shooting different poi (point of impact) I used my new to me Urika 2 at a registered shoot this weekend and I really struggled with it, clays I thought I would dust I plain missed, I usually shoot a 303 so am well used to beretta autos and both the 303 and the 391 seem to give me a very similar sight plane, The more rib you see the higher the poi above point of aim ideally (for me) I can put a pound coin and a 50p (on top of the pound )on the receiver end of the barrel and can still just see the front bead above the coins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nel67 Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 you need to lower your stock,use a shim and place the thin end at the bottom which in turn lowers your stock,then shoot at a sheet of wallpaper with a target drawn in the middle of it,if 30 or 40% of your shot hits the target its "job done". ps might be worth doing a" before and after" on a sheet of wallpaper to see what difference the shim has made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 That was a hard and confusing read OP if the gun shoots high lower the comb (eye) You should have shims to do this on a semi auto, but if in doubt go and see a gun fitter it's quicker and cheaper in the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnphilip Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 I used to have a franchi affinity a lovely semi, it shot to high for me, i tried all the shims, none would lower it. in the end i made my own shim and that sorted it. good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exudate Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 Check the alignment of the choke in the barrel, too. When I first had my Benelli M2, it was shooting high and left. On inspection, the choke was out of center in the barrel (you could clearly see that it was, when looking down the muzzle with the barrel removed). The threads had been cut wrongly. GMK replaced the barrel under warranty, no quibble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlesP Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 On an AL391 it's not just shims, it's a combination of an elongated washer that fits inside the stock to provide the comb height and cast, together with a matching plastic shim which provides a packing where the stock meets the action. I'm sure that GMK would be able to supply a set. Note that each pair - washer and shim - must be matched, with matching numbers. Each pair provides two height settings and left or right cast. I thoroughly recommend downloading a manual, that'll make the business clearer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topgun113 Posted February 28, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 Hello all, this is the only shim which I required when I bought the gun, can somebody explain what this mean and what the next step is? Many thanks Topgun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topgun113 Posted February 28, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 (edited) Picture isn't working, it's got c-55-dx at the top C-60-sx the bottom one one side Then the other side it has the markings c-60-dx at the top and c-55-sx To say I'm confused is an understatement 😂 Edited February 28, 2017 by Topgun113 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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