Moley1508 Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 (edited) hello all. I have shot with an uncle who has an SC. am I able to legally to purchase a gun in his name, store is at his address etc and then use it in his presence? thanks for the advice, Moley Edited March 10, 2017 by Moley1508 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzicat Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 NO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dangerous Brian Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 Uncle buys the gun and puts it on his cert. You then use his gun in his presence. You have no legal rights of ownership of said gun and Uncle is free to sell the gun on at anytime and will also decide who uses it, when and under what circumstances. Where the Uncle gets the money from to buy the gun in the first place is another matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moley1508 Posted March 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 (edited) ok, mixed answers so will err on side of 'NO!' Edited March 10, 2017 by Moley1508 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 NO! +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moley1508 Posted March 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 thanks guys, this is what I was expecting. a colleague suggested I was wrong, hence seeking some clarity. much appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toontastic Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 Why don't you just apply for your own sgc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parapilot Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 He could buy a gun on his ticket for you to use at a ground with section 11, clay shooting etc. but it would not be your gun, he would have to be with you at all times. As said apply for your own and it solves the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moley1508 Posted March 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 in answer, I have applied but have a 10-14 month wait as I am in Essex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 (edited) Ownership is different to possession, you could own the gun but would have no ability to posses it. Lots of people have done this, give a mate some cash he buys the gun they want and then they "buy" it back once cert is received. The offence is possession of a firearm without a valid certificate unless exempted (such as at a clay ground with 11 (6) exemption) not ownership. Depends on your age as well if under 18 You cannot purchase a shotgun even with a certificate. The situation of a 17 year old with a cert buying a gun with a adult (over 21) present where the adult does not have sgc is interesting. Edited March 10, 2017 by HDAV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moley1508 Posted March 11, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2017 hdav that does make sense. thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twistedsanity Posted March 11, 2017 Report Share Posted March 11, 2017 If you wish to give your uncle the money to buy a gun for you to use in his presence(under supervision) that's OK but lawfully it is his gun and he is responsible for it, you can not legally own a gun or buy one until you get your cert. This is OK for clay grounds as they have exemptions but in the field my feo told me its a grey area as to whether he can be supervising you whilst he is shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted March 11, 2017 Report Share Posted March 11, 2017 Ownership is different to possession, you could own the gun but would have no ability to posses it. Lots of people have done this, give a mate some cash he buys the gun they want and then they "buy" it back once cert is received. The offence is possession of a firearm without a valid certificate unless exempted (such as at a clay ground with 11 (6) exemption) not ownership. Depends on your age as well if under 18 You cannot purchase a shotgun even with a certificate. The situation of a 17 year old with a cert buying a gun with a adult (over 21) present where the adult does not have sgc is interesting. You can not "own" a shotgun without a SGC your uncle with a SGC can buy and own one for you to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted March 11, 2017 Report Share Posted March 11, 2017 (edited) You can not "own" a shotgun without a SGC your uncle with a SGC can buy and own one for you to use.I don't agree, it's an item, an asset, which like any other that it can be owned and that ownership transferred, the possieion is the offence In law not the ownership. E.g. You surrender SGC after taking your guns to rfd to be sold on commission basis. You still own them until sold but have no SGC, rfd posses them. Legal? You may not be able to "buy" a shotgun without a cert, but you can own one. Example 2 SGC holder dies leaving a fine pair of English guns in his estate, the estate now owns the guns (the asset) and can choose whether to sell them or not but has no right to posses but still owns them. Police may issue a section to executor to allow for disposal but executor does not own them the estate does. A gun is exactly the same as any other item of property but it's "possession" is restricted In my opinon...... Edited March 11, 2017 by HDAV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted March 11, 2017 Report Share Posted March 11, 2017 Unfortunately HDAV we'll have to disagree after direction sent out from HO 3-4 years ago, it was also raised this included taking desposites on guns before a SGC or correctly conditioned FAC was produced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted March 11, 2017 Report Share Posted March 11, 2017 Unfortunately HDAV we'll have to disagree after direction sent out from HO 3-4 years ago, it was also raised this included taking desposites on guns before a SGC or correctly conditioned FAC was produced. And this is, of course, substantiated by the Firearms Act where it states Requirement of certificate for possession of shot guns. 2.-(1) Subject to any exemption under this Act, it is an offence for a person to have in his possession, or to purchase or acquire, a shot gun without holding a certificate under this Act authorising him to possess shot guns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moley1508 Posted March 11, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2017 (edited) just got home from a local reputable RFD. they are happy to sell a gun to me and for it to go on my uncles licence, with him having ownership and for it to be stored at his address. it would need to be transported by him to a clay club or private land over which I have permission to shoot but but I could then have use of it under his supervision. I asked if there was any requirement for the payment to come from the SC holder, answer was no. the police do not mind who pays for it. so in theory I could get a gun of my choice bought for me but added to my uncles' SC and then have some days out with him whilst I wait for my SC to arrive and then transfer the ownership. im a novice so please don't think I'm being a know it all, this is just a report from a conversation I have had today Edited March 11, 2017 by Moley1508 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted March 11, 2017 Report Share Posted March 11, 2017 Unfortunately HDAV we'll have to disagree after direction sent out from HO 3-4 years ago, it was also raised this included taking desposites on guns before a SGC or correctly conditioned FAC was produced. WW, No worries (it's not my livilyhood at stake) Charlie I obviously didn't read the second line there interesting then that RFD's are happy to do as above..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted March 11, 2017 Report Share Posted March 11, 2017 WW, No worries (it's not my livilyhood at stake) Charlie I obviously didn't read the second line there interesting then that RFD's are happy to do as above..... Of course the really interesting bit would be in whose name the purchase receipt (invoice) is issued. My guess is not in the name of the purchaser but that of the certificate holder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moley1508 Posted March 11, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2017 Charlie, if I ever get to that stage I will let you know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted March 11, 2017 Report Share Posted March 11, 2017 WW, No worries (it's not my livilyhood at stake) Charlie I obviously didn't read the second line there interesting then that RFD's are happy to do as above..... It is mine as long as I believe the certificate holder is the owner I've complied with the law anything that happens between friends and such as a favourite nephew give is dear old uncle some money so he can get that new gun does not matter to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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