Section 1 Shotguns. Are they different to other S1 Firearms?

[RockySpears]

OK, Being doing PSG for a year or so now. Just had a copper come along looking to join, so instructor wanted everything just right.

 

Understandable.

 

One new thing that appears to come out of this was that none of us could handle anothers' shotgun. Is this right? If I have a S1 shotgun on my licence, am I really ONLY allowed to use my own gun? Even to the point of not touching another shooters gun?

 

Looked all over for a sensible answer, but none addressing S1 shotguns as different to any other firearm,

 

Thanks,

 

RS

[walshie]

Strange but true. You can't lend or borrow a S1 shotgun even in the owner's presence.

[7iain7]

I think can use each other's firearms on a Home Office approved shooting range ?

[walshie]

I think can use each other's firearms on a Home Office approved shooting range ?

 

You can with a 338 lap mag for example, but not a S1 shotgun or pistol strangely enough.

Edited March 28, 2017 by walshie

[7iain7]

probably best to ask BASC, I have just found this if it helps:

BORROWING RIFLES ON PRIVATE PREMISES

Incorporating amendments from the Policing and Crime Act 2017

The detail in this fact sheet becomes law on 2nd May 2017

Section 11A of the Firearms Act 1968 subsumes the rifle exemption at Section 16 of the Firearms Act 1968.

New Section 11A allows a non-certificate holder to borrow a rifle and use it in the presence of a certificate

holder on private premises. The following criteria must be met

• The borrower of a rifle must be aged 17 or older.

• The lender must be aged 18 or older and have a certificate in respect of the rifle.

• The borrower must be in the presence of the lender i.e. in sight and earshot.

• The use of a rifle must comply with any conditions on the certificate held in respect of that rifle.

• The purpose of the loan is only for hunting animals, shooting game or vermin or shooting artificial

targets.

• The lender must be;

a) a person who has the right to allow others to enter the premises for the

purpose of hunting animals or shooting game or vermin, or

b) a person authorised by them in writing.

Notes:

1. Written permission (b) is a new requirement and must be obtained prior to shooting. Verbal

permission is no longer permitted.

2. The exemption does not extend to other types of Section 1 firearms.

3. Section 57(4) of the 1968 Act defines “premises” as including any land. The foreshore is land,

however it is predominately Crown or Duchy owned but some for example, is owned or leased by

private individuals, local authorities or other groups. The rifle exemption may only be utilised on

foreshore in England and Wales where the lender is an owner/occupier/lease holder who maintains

the shooting rights. In the case of a lease, the lease must allow the use of rifles. Crown leases do not

allow the use of rifles. In England and Wales the foreshore is that part of the seashore which is more

often than not covered by the flux and reflux of the four ordinary tides occurring midway between

springs and neaps.

In Scotland there is a general right to recreation on the foreshore (except on Orkney and

Shetland). This includes the shooting of wildfowl (using a shotgun only) and where the right has not

been taken away by statute, e.g. nature reserves. Accordingly the public may not use the foreshore

to use or lend rifles. In Scotland the foreshore is the area of land between the high and low water

marks of ordinary spring tides.

For further information see BASC’s Night Shooting code of practice - https://basc.org.uk/cop/lamping/

ENQUIRIES TO: Phone 01244-573010

E-mail: firearms@basc.org.uk

© BASC January 2017

[7iain7]

yes I think your right, the seems to be no mention of S1 or pistols.

Edited March 28, 2017 by 7iain7

[saddler]

See the current thread on here about LBPs

 

NOT allowed to be used by anyone BUT the owner.

 

Breastman posted a very detailed breakdown of WHY.

READ IT

[saddler]

I think can use each other's firearms on a Home Office approved shooting range ?

Nope.

Best not to think some things, best to KNOW

You CANNOT use a Section 1 shotgun or LBP/LBR, irrespective of location, etc.

[Vince Green]

For LBP it was a condition originally written onto the FAC of the owner that this pistol can only be used by the FAC holder. So like a lot of these things the legislation has crept to people now saying its a blanket rule.

 

I don't know what the present situation is but a few years ago the restriction was placed on the individual firearm.

[saddler]

For LBP it was a condition originally written onto the FAC of the owner that this pistol can only be used by the FAC holder. So like a lot of these things the legislation has crept to people now saying its a blanket rule.

 

I don't know what the present situation is but a few years ago the restriction was placed on the individual firearm.

No change.

Can only be used by the owner.

 

Pain in the bum, but nobody could expect anything logical to be part & parcel of UK firearms legislation.

The legislation is there to block ownership, not simplify it...

[The Mighty Prawn]

See the current thread on here about LBPs

 

NOT allowed to be used by anyone BUT the owner.

 

Breastman posted a very detailed breakdown of WHY.

READ IT

Unless I'm being thick can't find that thread, can someone link for me?

[saddler]

May work:

 

https://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/topic/317049-gsg-1911-lbp/page-2?do=findComment&comment=3236400

[Vince Green]

No change.

Can only be used by the owner.

 

Pain in the bum, but nobody could expect anything logical to be part & parcel of UK firearms legislation.

The legislation is there to block ownership, not simplify it...

The thing is, and I'm not entirely sure, but I don't believe all police forces write that onto the FAC of the owner anymore for LBP and I also half remember it has been challenged. I get the impression it falls into the category of making up rules as they go along.

[The Mighty Prawn]

May work:

https://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/topic/317049-gsg-1911-lbp/page-2?do=findComment&comment=3236400

Cheers mate, weird as I searched LBP but got no results yet there it is in the forum heading! I expect Sturgeon is to blame on a day like today!

[saddler]

Say her name three times & she appears in the room. Magic!

[RockySpears]

I knew I should read every thread ever posted here, I would be much the wiser.

 

So, my instructor is right, he usually is.

 

No touching other peoples S1 shotguns, (or LBRs for that matter).

 

What a mes our legislation is in,

 

Thanks to Breastman et al.

 

RS

[BrowningB525]

Is it true that a S1 shotgun that isn't conditioned for clays isn't *technically* allowed to be used for clays?

[saddler]

Is it true that a S1 shotgun that isn't conditioned for clays isn't *technically* allowed to be used for clays?

Yes.

Hone Office Guidance STATES that upon meeting the requirements to be granted a S1 shotgun, the FAC SHOULD THEN be conditioned for clay shooting.

 

Police Scotland have issues reading guidance, understanding it, then adding Guidance advice to an FAC.

Ask me how I know...

[The Mighty Prawn]

Yes.

Hone Office Guidance STATES that upon meeting the requirements to be granted a S1 shotgun, the FAC SHOULD THEN be conditioned for clay shooting.

 

Police Scotland have issues reading guidance, understanding it, then adding Guidance advice to an FAC.

Ask me how I know...

Mine is conditioned for clays, I have never been brave enough to pull an 11+1 pump action out on a stand for fear of getting Guantanamoed! Same madness with solid slug, used all over the continent, only for target use here - is it really more dangerous than a .338 or .308? It's a big lump of lead but an awful b/c means they don't go nearly as far as a bullet

[Scully]

Just don't tell anyone, that's my advice. 👍

[ElvisThePelvis]

Mine isn't conditioned specifically for clays but for use over land where I have permission, can I use this for clays?

[ninja_fox]

Doubt it - all depends on the conditions on your cert.

 

Most target conditions are something along the line of 'for use on a course of fire approved by NRA/UKPSA etc.' and for pest control it would be 'for vermin on land over which the certificate holder has permission to shoot...'

 

So if it doesn't say clays on there, assume you can't; if it just says for shooting over your own land without any other conditions then you're good to go. But usually you need a good reason to get one and that is the condition that you will have. Clays isn't a good reason for a S1 shotgun.

[saddler]

Mine isn't conditioned specifically for clays but for use over land where I have permission, can I use this for clays?

I'd say no...but the clay condition may be more relevant to privately run clay grounds, so as long as the land permission you have doesn't stipulate quarry or vermin shooting. If it lists target practice you're ok...otherwise, get it added.

It's free & SHOULD be automatically added (remind them they've missed it off)

[ElvisThePelvis]

Doubt it - all depends on the conditions on your cert.

 

Most target conditions are something along the line of 'for use on a course of fire approved by NRA/UKPSA etc.' and for pest control it would be 'for vermin on land over which the certificate holder has permission to shoot...'

 

So if it doesn't say clays on there, assume you can't; if it just says for shooting over your own land without any other conditions then you're good to go. But usually you need a good reason to get one and that is the condition that you will have. Clays isn't a good reason for a S1 shotgun.

Having just checked its 'vermin and ground game where the holder has lawful authority to shoot'. Best I stick to ou for clays!

[greenergp]

I was wondering if you had a Marlin Goose gun, 3 shot bolt action shotgun, (if the mag can be removed it it classed as a section 1 shotgun) can you legally use it on the foreshore for wildfowling?