Shotgun chokes

[Squinting shot]

Hello to you all.

Just wondering if shotgun chokes are more effective on fibre wadded cartridges as the shot sits on top unlike plastic where the shot is held in a cup. Sorry for inflicting the question.

[Mr.C]

Quite the reverse, tighter with plaswads.

Dust alot more with plastic.

Edited September 17, 2017 by Mr.C

[Squinting shot]

Oh Good to know. So if your using fibre wads it would be better to go tighter with the chokes.

[Westward]

Tricky question. My view is that the theoretical physics aspect is probably unfathomable for most people - certainly is for me - but the most commonly held view is that plastics pattern slightly better although an expensive fibre shell is probably better than a cheap plastic one.

 

My own experience certainly bears that out as I've had cheap plastics from a major UK maker that exclusively delivered chippy breaks and decent fibres from a different UK maker that frequently obliterated clays.

 

It's also widely held that plastic wads hold a slightly tighter pattern than fibres. I haven't tested this so can't say but I vaguely recall a respected magazine which did some tests and cast doubt on that theory. The point is that there are several things in play other than wad type that affect the outcome.

 

If you really want to know it's pretty simple to set up a pattern board and test your own shells and chokes.

[B391]

A little while ago I compared fibre with plastic to see whether I could determine any appreciable differences.

 

I already had some Power Blue 28 g 7.5 fibre so I bought a slab of the same but in plastic to have an identical as possible comparison.

I shot 100 sporting and then 2 rounds of skeet. I used the same choke for all cartridges and I shot each clay presentation with both fibre and plastic and to make sure I wasn’t favouring one type. I shot some fibre then plastic and some plastic first.

Pattern: this is subjective as it relies on my ‘feel’ for the breaks but overall I got the firm impression that plastic does provide a tighter pattern. At least the clays consistently broke into smaller pieces and on one long edge shot I missed 3/5 with fibre but hit 5/5 with plastic. And I swapped the order to be sure it wasn’t me!!

Recoil: slightly more overall using fibre, but not much.

Smoothness: no real difference, maybe a very slight leaning towards plastic.

Noise and smell: no appreciable difference

Confetti vs plastic wad: didn’t really notice any plastic wads but quite a few times black confetti blew back towards me.

Overall conclusion: very little between them and if I was shooting fibre for a long edge shot I would probably put in a tighter choke. It was an interesting exercise for to learn the differences, or rather, lack of key differences.

[Westward]

Funnily enough it was the Power Blue plastics that in my CG delivered such poor breaks. I think they changed the recipe because when they first came out I tried them and found them really good for the money. A couple of years ago I picked up 1,000 because they were a good price, but I was very glad to see the back of them.

 

Seems like others have found the same thing because very few people in my neck of the woods seem to use them.

[Hamster]

Tricky question. My view is that the theoretical physics aspect is probably unfathomable for most people - certainly is for me - but the most commonly held view is that plastics pattern slightly better although an expensive fibre shell is probably better than a cheap plastic one.

 

My own experience certainly bears that out as I've had cheap plastics from a major UK maker that exclusively delivered chippy breaks and decent fibres from a different UK maker that frequently obliterated clays.

 

It's also widely held that plastic wads hold a slightly tighter pattern than fibres. I haven't tested this so can't say but I vaguely recall a respected magazine which did some tests and cast doubt on that theory. The point is that there are several things in play other than wad type that affect the outcome.

 

If you really want to know it's pretty simple to set up a pattern board and test your own shells and chokes.

 

 

With respect to the OP his question is rather confusing anyway, to add another huge variable into the mix is the reality that many guns simply don't like felt/fibre shells because of their barrel/chamber dimensions which is nowt to do with the choke as such.

 

In its most simplistic form anything that imparts extra stress to the column of pellets could be harmful hence why many report of poor patterns beyond Full even for plastic wad cartridges, it is conceivable for instance that one of the reasons why felt patterns slightly more open in a like for like situation using identical components is the fact that pellets are in contact with the barrel walls. So again, simplistically speaking plastic ought to be less adversely affected.

Edited September 18, 2017 by Hamster

[Me matt]

The great choke debate continues.... Im a full choke kind of guy, works best for me. Love long shots in the field, anything close I tend to let it get away a bit before pulling the trigger.

[neutron619]

Certainly in the .410 a plastic wad can be the difference between a tight pattern and a blown pattern.

 

I've found, for example, that the Fiocchi 3" range tend to perform much better with lighter chokes than tighter - almost certainly due to the extra constriction at the muzzle caused by the thickness of the petals of the wad, which blows the pattern. In fact, generally, fibre wadded cartridges have tended to perform better in .410, though the short "diabolo" type wads are also useful.

 

In a 12 gauge though - well - the thickness of the wad is a lot less significant. I'd still prefer to use fibre, but I worry a lot less about choke and wad material when there were so many more pellets to play with. It's not a marginal gun for anything, clays or game.

Edited September 18, 2017 by neutron619

[bostonmick]

I have only ever used fibre in 410,actually did not realise they did plastic,i use 1/4 and 3/4 choke mainly for skeet,i will say that when on station 1 or 7 they give breaks almost as good as 12 bore.

[Uilleachan]

I'm no clay duster and I don't have an extensive knowledge/experience of the various cartridge brands. However, I have noticed a bit of a difference between fibre and plastic wadded carts.

 

My informal clay shooting has been conducted with fibre exclusively as there's beasts, sheep and cows, that graze the field we shoot over the corner of. I tend to buy whats available rather than what I fancy, given my location and the lack of suppliers within a reasonable distance, nearest is a 150 mile round trip. I got on well with fibre Imperials which Graham's of Inverness had in, but now they've sold out. Last buy was olympic blue fibre from MacLeods & Sons in Tain, still have a couple of slabs left so thats what I'm using at the moment.

 

A few months back I went to braidwood with a pal and we bought a 4 slabs of Fiocchi tt 1 in #8, we shot two slabs on the day and I took the others, which I shot at Auchterhouse over a couple of visits in passing.

 

I had the distinct impression that the plastic TT's were throwing a tighter pattern than the fibre olympics through the same chokes (Browning 525 choked 1/4 & 1/2 invecta plus). Now I'm sure the TT1 and olympics aren't the top carts, but they're both good enough to be getting on with for my level.

 

There's a pattern plate at Auchterhouse so last month I popped a tt & a blue through the half choke at 30 yards on the bottom of a couple of plates. The TT's were noticeably tighter, but both were uniformly decent patterns.

 

So there's a difference IMO, but there's not a lot in it. I break clays with the fibre but feel the plastics do more damage.

 

But here's the rub, on my last go at the clays on the pals croft last Thursday, I was shooting edge on overhead goers and edge on left to right crossers, using black clays. I had a few misses and when I'd finished I walked down through the rashes to see if I could recover the misses. Which I did, but I also found three intact orange clays from a tail end box we'd found in the feed shed that we shot the week before.

 

Got back to the trap and decided to fly the recoveries as I still had a half dozen carts in my pocket. Even edge on at 30 to 35+ yards overhead goers, through the 1/4 choke, the olympics were doing a fine job at smashing the clays, okay these are easy shots but the big revelation was that the orange clays break better than the black

 

So there you have it, scientific analysis for you. Instead of buying just orange clays from now on, I'm just having to accept that my eyes aren't as keen as they once were and what I'm perceiving as poor hits could well be down to me not seeing the black fragments flying against a darkish background as well as the orange.

 

But still, through my gun the TT's are tighter than the olympics, I may have a go at skeet and quarter with the TT's next time I'm down the road and see if I can't up my kill rate a bit

[Guest stevo]

Blimey I'm sooo glad I moved over to fixed choke

[Squinting shot]

It's definitely more scientific than you would think. I have only ever used fibre wads as the 2 shoots I go to are small shoots on farms. Didn't mean to confuse anyone. I just thought as a fibre wadded cartridge is fired the shot exits the barrel and I assume starts to spread with the air pressure as theirs nothing holding it together. Unlike a plastic wad where the shot exits the barrel in the shot cup which I would think holds the shot together until the plastic wad comes away from the shot. Probably not as easy as that though. Thank you for your time

[wymberley]

Blimey I'm sooo glad I moved over to fixed choke

+1

Didn't actually change over as when I started off there was nothing else. They don't shoot loose, don't need removing to clean, obviously don't have the problem of trying to remove one that is stuck in and are easy to change.

[figgy]

Uilleachan the TT carts are a bit slower than a lot of others and have always held a dense pattern. Friends of mine used to shoot them a lot years ago and loved the dust they produced compared to the other budget carts they had used. The tt don't blow the pattern on exiting the gun.

 

Stevo two of my guns are fixed choke and I prefer them, no worry of them sticking or is the right chokes in. Just shoot and they break clays or kill things. Easier to clean and great patterns.

[Guest stevo]

Know what you mean I've had fixed choke guns for 20+ yrs as well as the odd M/C. Always perfered the fixed chokes for lots of reasons.

[Uilleachan]

Uilleachan the TT carts are a bit slower than a lot of others and have always held a dense pattern. Friends of mine used to shoot them a lot years ago and loved the dust they produced compared to the other budget carts they had used. The tt don't blow the pattern on exiting the gun.

 

Stevo two of my guns are fixed choke and I prefer them, no worry of them sticking or is the right chokes in. Just shoot and they break clays or kill things. Easier to clean and great patterns.

 

 

Thanks for that figgy, thinking I'll buy another 1000 TTs next time I'm at a ground, use the fibre on the croft and the TTs on the grounds I visit. That'll do for getting on with.

[Setwings]

There is not a choke that is more effective on a fibrewad cartridge ! Or a plastic wad cartridge . Without going into great detail ... plastic wad cartridges tend to through slightly tighter and more even patterns compared to a fibre wad cartridge in the same load and through the same choke . Now Bore size , witch varies quite a lot in different make guns of the same calibre has more of an impact on witch type of wad might be more suitable to your gun . The larger back bored barrels say 18.7 do well with plastic wad as it lets the wad relax slightly giving less resistance and lees pellet deformation ..whereas I've found fibre wads go better in tighter bores of say 18.5 ..But anyway ... any choke is a compromise ...your very unlikely to notice the difference in performance unless you've done a hell of a lot of shooting . And the difference in say 1 clay in a 100 .. witch to some athletes is important ..But to most of us muggles it doesn't matter to much .. best thing to do is to Remeber Is patterns kill targets .. test different ccartridges at different ranges through different chokes to find out what's best for what your doing , then stick to those chokes .. and try not to worry about it after that .. shooting being a 90 percent mental game .. you don't need to be worrying about it in the back of your mind while shooting.. thatl will have worse of an affect than having the "wrong" choke

[Squinting shot]

There is not a choke that is more effective on a fibrewad cartridge ! Or a plastic wad cartridge . Without going into great detail ... plastic wad cartridges tend to through slightly tighter and more even patterns compared to a fibre wad cartridge in the same load and through the same choke . Now Bore size , witch varies quite a lot in different make guns of the same calibre has more of an impact on witch type of wad might be more suitable to your gun . The larger back bored barrels say 18.7 do well with plastic wad as it lets the wad relax slightly giving less resistance and lees pellet deformation ..whereas I've found fibre wads go better in tighter bores of say 18.5 ..But anyway ... any choke is a compromise ...your very unlikely to notice the difference in performance unless you've done a hell of a lot of shooting . And the difference in say 1 clay in a 100 .. witch to some athletes is important ..But to most of us muggles it doesn't matter to much .. best thing to do is to Remeber Is patterns kill targets .. test different ccartridges at different ranges through different chokes to find out what's best for what your doing , then stick to those chokes .. and try not to worry about it after that .. shooting being a 90 percent mental game .. you don't need to be worrying about it in the back of your mind while shooting.. thatl will have worse of an affect than having the "wrong" choke

Thanks for the reply sounds good. I usually use 1/4 1/2 and leave them in and use 7.5 to 8 depending on clay

[Setwings]

Sounds perfect for most sporting clays layouts ..if you ever get the chance to use a pattern plate or make your own Its is quite interesting and is the only way to see the diffence in patterns . But if you're happy with what your results and your having fun that's the most important thing . But if your thinking of competing knowing what your gun does and what ammo it preferres at diffent distances can be helpful ..if your shot a lot of game it can be helpful to as there is known pellet amounts per single 30 inch circle test per species that is required to kill 19 out of 20 shots . For instance 100 pellets in a 30 inch circle for a pheasnt and 140 for a pigeon etc due to size vs pattern density . A guy in America Did a ten year study and can be a great reference point to setting your gun up if you wanna get serious .

[wymberley]

Sounds perfect for most sporting clays layouts ..if you ever get the chance to use a pattern plate or make your own Its is quite interesting and is the only way to see the diffence in patterns . But if you're happy with what your results and your having fun that's the most important thing . But if your thinking of competing knowing what your gun does and what ammo it preferres at diffent distances can be helpful ..if your shot a lot of game it can be helpful to as there is known pellet amounts per single 30 inch circle test per species that is required to kill 19 out of 20 shots .

You were doing great, but should, I think, have stopped as above.

[Setwings]

Noted wymberley 👍😘

[wymberley]

Noted wymberley

Setwings, hi,

Two points;

My "I think" translates to, 'as I understand it and have been lead to believe'. Secondly and more importantly, my remark was not a criticism - you were quite right to say what you did.