neutron619 Posted September 24, 2017 Report Share Posted September 24, 2017 Just a couple of questions for the gurus before I disappear for the night. 1. Does anyone know what the powder used in the Hull High Pheasant 19g/#6 loading is? It's a black spherical powder of extremely small granule size, appears to be extremely slow and very consistent in burn. I'd like to know if it, or a commercial equivalent is available. 2. Does anyone know whether Hull are loading continental shot sizes into the aforementioned cartridge? Their website and my calculations suggest that they should be putting about 180-190 pellets in the cartridge, but my average of five cartridges comes out at 162 with very little variation. That sounds like #5½ to me... Either way, I'm not sure I mind. I didn't complete all the pattern testing I wanted to do today as I ran out of paper, but the preliminary results suggest that they are a phenomenal cartridge, which ties in with the left-and-right I managed with them last week. Thanks to anyone who can shed some light on these things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonepark Posted September 24, 2017 Report Share Posted September 24, 2017 I thought they used vectan powders, if so likely SP3 or a variation thereof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floating Chamber Posted September 24, 2017 Report Share Posted September 24, 2017 I thought they used vectan powders, if so likely SP3 or a variation thereof. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 Your bullet point 2. is spot on. If the 410 load is designed to perform in a similar fashion to its big brother in 12, then it's not surprising that it performs well. More often than not, the only sure way to find out what might be in the cartridge is to look at their website, but I would imagine that any physical change could well occur at a different time to the website update. This means that the only way to be sure of what actually IS in there is to do what you've done. For example, the previous 'site offering gave 7s as 350/oz and was spot on. The current version gives 320. I can't tell you what it actually is as they've stopped producing the 12 High Pheasant in 7s. Damn it. For my money, with all the different ideas and international spec's being offered for sale here in the UK, it's high time that the pellet/oz count is annotated on the carton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neutron619 Posted September 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 Many thanks to you all. If it is Vectan SP3, it appears to be a very good powder, on the basis of yesterday's results. No sign of pellet welding; lovely even patterns; pellet counts I'd more often associate with #7 shot with #6's. It won't quite manage 40 yards, but it'll do 35-37 at a push. If I had a way of pulling the shot and replacing it with the same quantity of Gamebore's "Diamond Shot", I suspect it would get there. Anyone got a .410 press they want to lend me!? Right - I'm off to find the SP3 data. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 Interesting. Might try a box or two of those. Thanks for the information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neutron619 Posted September 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 Interesting. Might try a box or two of those. Thanks for the information. No worries. I actually ran out of paper, so I don't have a reliable data set yet, but give some detail, the best 30-yard pattern so far was 142 in the circle through 0.015" choke. 0.020" was also usable (best = 136), but appears to be a little too much for this cartridge. Using 120 in the circle as the absolute minimum standard and the 10%-loss-per-5-yards estimation, suggests it would reach to 35 or maybe 37 under the best circumstances. It certainly seemed more than adequate when I ended up - unexpectedly - field testing them (in advance of pattern testing them) two Sundays ago. Recoil was firm-ish, but patterns were nicely spaced and notably even. 40-yard counts were around 100 pellets at best, with a low of 78 during testing. Now I want to know how they would have performed if they'd had some decent hard lead in them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
222mark Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 Definatley SP3, hwhat wieght of powder are in them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neutron619 Posted September 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 Definatley SP3, hwhat wieght of powder are in them? No idea at this point. Will get the scales out tomorrow if I can and respond again unless anyone beats me to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodeer Posted September 29, 2017 Report Share Posted September 29, 2017 Off topic but Cheddite now sell at £350/1000 24g plastic 5/6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootingEgg Posted September 30, 2017 Report Share Posted September 30, 2017 Interesting. Might try a box or two of those. Thanks for the information. Used a box on crow a few week's back.. Great little cartridge.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted September 30, 2017 Report Share Posted September 30, 2017 Many thanks to you all. If it is Vectan SP3, it appears to be a very good powder, on the basis of yesterday's results. No sign of pellet welding; lovely even patterns; pellet counts I'd more often associate with #7 shot with #6's. It won't quite manage 40 yards, but it'll do 35-37 at a push. If I had a way of pulling the shot and replacing it with the same quantity of Gamebore's "Diamond Shot", I suspect it would get there. Anyone got a .410 press they want to lend me!? Right - I'm off to find the SP3 data. Buy a press, save a lot, and you will never regret it! Off topic but Cheddite now sell at £350/1000 24g plastic 5/6 You can reload for half that price ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
222mark Posted October 1, 2017 Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 How do you get 24g in a .410 case !!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonepark Posted October 1, 2017 Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 How do you get 24g in a .410 case !!!! No wad, just an over powder card. For 410, 21g is the max that you can still get a decent wad in to cushion the shock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodeer Posted October 1, 2017 Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 They are plastic wad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted October 1, 2017 Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 I ordered SP3 for delivery at Scottish game fair from C&G but they didnt have any ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
222mark Posted October 3, 2017 Report Share Posted October 3, 2017 21g equates to 3/4 ounce. The old winchester 3 inch load. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted October 3, 2017 Report Share Posted October 3, 2017 I ordered SP3 for delivery at Scottish game fair from C&G but they didnt have any ! Try Folkeston Engineering ..BUT they cannot ship easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted October 3, 2017 Report Share Posted October 3, 2017 Picking up 250 Hull High Pheasant on Thursday to try out. I have now tested in the field the load for fibre wads/SP3/Fiocchi case and 19grms (UK7s) and they are first class. This is the recipe from Folkeston using their wads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartcjf Posted October 9, 2017 Report Share Posted October 9, 2017 Neutron619 when you speak about choke measurements of 0.015 and 0.020 on the Teague charts for .410 that appears to be full and extra full is that correct or am missing something? https://www.teaguechokes.com/assets/pdfs/choke-charts/choke-chart.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neutron619 Posted October 9, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2017 (edited) Neutron619 when you speak about choke measurements of 0.015 and 0.020 on the Teague charts for .410 that appears to be full and extra full is that correct or am missing something? https://www.teaguechokes.com/assets/pdfs/choke-charts/choke-chart.pdf It depends who you ask and what you mean. The chokes themselves are "Modified" and "Improved Modified" according to the manual that came with the gun. I call them "half" and "three-quarter" to myself for convenience, but when I'm talking to anyone else, I try to use the constrictions, rather than any names. The reason for that is that Teague appear to call them "Full" and "Extra Full", whilst Briley, to whom I usually refer, have them nearer to being "Improved Modified" and Extra Full - see here: http://www.briley.com/c-448-bore-sizes-and-constrictions.aspx On the other hand, their performance with the cartridge in question is more in the region of "Full" for the 0.015" choke and somwhere between "Improved Cylinder" and "Modified" for the 0.020" choke ("three-eighths" if you prefer it in English flavour), which seems over tight and looks very much like a blown pattern. Given the (hopefully obvious) potential for confusion, I therefore refer only to the constrictions and the performance in absolute or percentage, but not nominal terms. More generally, I've found that .410 almost never gives the performance one might expect, according to the name of the choke or the degree of its constriction, with any cartridge. You have to test everything, in your gun, if you want to know how it performs. Edit: spelling in the penultimate sentence (of -> or). Edited October 9, 2017 by neutron619 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted October 9, 2017 Report Share Posted October 9, 2017 neutron, your last sentence is absolutely on the nail. They all differ. I have three 410s and they all print differently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartcjf Posted October 9, 2017 Report Share Posted October 9, 2017 It depends who you ask and what you mean. The chokes themselves are "Modified" and "Improved Modified" according to the manual that came with the gun. I call them "half" and "three-quarter" to myself for convenience, but when I'm talking to anyone else, I try to use the constrictions, rather than any names. The reason for that is that Teague appear to call them "Full" and "Extra Full", whilst Briley, to whom I usually refer, have them nearer to being "Improved Modified" and Extra Full - see here: http://www.briley.com/c-448-bore-sizes-and-constrictions.aspx On the other hand, their performance with the cartridge in question is more in the region of "Full" for the 0.015" choke and somwhere between "Improved Cylinder" and "Modified" for the 0.020" choke ("three-eighths" if you prefer it in English flavour), which seems over tight and looks very much like a blown pattern. Given the (hopefully obvious) potential for confusion, I therefore refer only to the constrictions and the performance in absolute or percentage, but not nominal terms. More generally, I've found that .410 almost never gives the performance one might expect, according to the name of the choke or the degree of its constriction, with any cartridge. You have to test everything, in your gun, if you want to know how it performs. Edit: spelling in the penultimate sentence (of -> or). Many thanks for the explanation. Will have to get out and do some pattern tests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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