Jim Neal Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 We've got a drive where the gun line is stood behind a roughly 10ft high bank which the birds are driven over the top of, towards the pen. We used to beat it at an angle coming in to the bank which meant the birds got up well but only a couple of pegs down the end got all the shooting. Now we've turned the drive flat towards the bank which spreads the birds out but they all just skim over the bank taking your hat off on the way past. They obviously know where they're going and don't waste any energy gaining height as it's only a short hop back home. I'm wondering if we could get some lengths of sewelling out on the top of the bank (being operated from down the bank on the "safe" side of course) if that would make the birds gain any height? I know sewelling can make them take off when you run them out of a game cover on flat ground for example but not sure if it would influence their altitude once they're up in the air and only 50 yds or so from the pen? Any suggestions welcome! Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 (edited) Get you guns to fix bayonets and charge Jim. Give the sewelling a try, it works on several of our drives within woodland. Edited October 10, 2017 by TIGHTCHOKE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinF Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 Sounds like the problem you have is the flushing point is too near to home for the birds. I don't think that the sewelling on the bank will make the birds fly any higher, but if you can put some sewelling further back in the drive to flush the birds earlier, and further away from wherever they're heading to, that would probably help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIDES EDGE Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 Is it possible to drive it up hill away from the hedge the birds should then get up at the top and curl back over the beaters to get home at a decent hight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Neal Posted October 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 (edited) Get you guns to fix bayonets and charge Jim. Haha it might just come to that mate! Skewered pheasant, yummy. The only problem with trying sewelling is we'd need to make about 150 yards of it, and if it doesn't work that's a lot of effort without reward. Edited October 10, 2017 by Jim Neal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Neal Posted October 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 Sounds like the problem you have is the flushing point is too near to home for the birds. I don't think that the sewelling on the bank will make the birds fly any higher, but if you can put some sewelling further back in the drive to flush the birds earlier, and further away from wherever they're heading to, that would probably help. Good suggestion, may be worth a go, thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Neal Posted October 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 Is it possible to drive it up hill away from the hedge the birds should then get up at the top and curl back over the beaters to get home at a decent hight. Know what you're saying but it's not uphill, level ground unfortunately and other "safe" places they can head for if the pen appears out of reach. They'll just fly off the wrong way, as does happen on that drive if a dog gets the wrong side of them or the beaters walk over them. I've heard of drives on several other shoots where first-timers on the shoot think the keeper has gone mad. They line the guns out and then line the beaters across them facing the same direction and march away! It defies belief until you see it apparently, the birds all getting up and flying back over the beaters' heads to the gun line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 (edited) Hmmm??? How about getting two or three beaters to start on the bank and just gently move forward into the cover for a short distance tapping sticks. The distance will be controlled by how long the drive is but I would guess about 15 to 20yrds. Then stand still but keep tapping...no other noise from them. Then the beating line in a slight curve come forward towards them with a bit more gusto/tapping letting the now trapped pheasants believe where the really danger is coming from. A shoot I am on does this in flat woodland and birds do get up over the trees, not brilliant but acceptable. I think if the birds got up and saw open ground they may lift even more. Worth a try Edited October 10, 2017 by Walker570 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Neal Posted October 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 (edited) Hmmm??? How about getting two or three beaters to start on the bank and just gently move forward into the cover for a short distance tapping sticks. The distance will be controlled by how long the drive is but I would guess about 15 to 20yrds. Then stand still but keep tapping...no other noise from them. Then the beating line in a slight curve come forward towards them with a bit more gusto/tapping letting the now trapped pheasants believe where the really danger is coming from. A shoot I am on does this in flat woodland and birds do get up over the trees, not brilliant but acceptable. I think if the birds got up and saw open ground they may lift even more. Worth a try Thanks - this was actually my initial suggestion to the shoot. The problem is, the beating line is virtually as wide as the gun line, probably 250yds, and we don't have enough bodies to do something like that. The ground cover is quite thick in places and it's easy to walk over the birds or for them to run back between beaters if you're spaced too far apart. I had a bit of a crackpot idea to make something that works the same as sewelling, except you don'tt have streamers hanging off it but bean tins with a stone in them. I haven't got a clue if it would work but the idea is to create a sort of wall of sound spread across a wide line so they walk away from it at first, towrdsa the beaters, then fly over it when flushed rather than run through to the bank. This would cut down on required manpower. Probably more hassle than making the sewelling required for that particular job! Edited October 10, 2017 by Jim Neal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 worth a try, you'll be eating baked beans all season just to get enough tins for next season! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprinter Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 How about..... Blank around buildings quietly, then pull back and go round the top. Beat down towards the road keeping the pen side forward with flags. Position 3/4 guns in banana and 6/7 up the track. Thus mostly you're beating away from the pen so if birds want to go back theyll have to go up n over the beaters to get there. Just a thought idk if it would work. In the meantime im getting my tennis racquet re-strung..... If you do go down the baked bean route i aint standinn anywhere near ya! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Neal Posted October 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 (edited) My God it's like you've actually been there! I'll pass on your suggestion! I'm a bit worried about the tennis racquet thing you mentioned... is it a euphemism for something? Edited October 10, 2017 by Jim Neal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 Mow a ride in the cover 30 or more yards back for the bank parallel to the gun line about 10/15 foot wide, put your sewling on the back edge of that ride to stop the birds running through and s that the birds can get up in the ride, two flag men doing the job wrong between edge of crop and bank, get them to flag only once birds are up and decided which direction to travel in and probably half way to the guns, the birds will lift over the flags rather than divert, job jobbed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 (edited) Ps if you flag birds whilst they lift they will most likely set off in a different direction! Edited October 11, 2017 by Paul223 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprinter Posted October 11, 2017 Report Share Posted October 11, 2017 My God it's like you've actually been there! I'll pass on your suggestion! Once or twice..... It might work, it might go mammaries up. Can't be any worse though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr gen Posted October 11, 2017 Report Share Posted October 11, 2017 worth a try, you'll be eating baked beans all season just to get enough tins for next season! +1 but why not try beer cans a lot more fun in the making Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Neal Posted October 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2017 You'd need quite small stones to go into the holes in beer cans but it would be worth the hassle... Mow a ride in the cover 30 or more yards back for the bank parallel to the gun line about 10/15 foot wide, put your sewling on the back edge of that ride to stop the birds running through and s that the birds can get up in the ride, two flag men doing the job wrong between edge of crop and bank, get them to flag only once birds are up and decided which direction to travel in and probably half way to the guns, the birds will lift over the flags rather than divert, job jobbed. Get what you're saying but it's not a game cover. It's best described as waste ground, flat but with a few ridges and ditches where some exploratory earth works have been done, mostly mud with some scrubby patches and patches of longer growing weeds which the birds hide out in. Bit of a tricky one. Once or twice.....It might work, it might go mammaries up. Can't be any worse though? Agreed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprinter Posted October 12, 2017 Report Share Posted October 12, 2017 You'd need quite small stones to go into the holes in beer cans but it would be worth the hassle... If you can get the treasurer to approve expenditure on the full cans i promise ill do my best to empty them. It'll be a terrible job but if its for the good of the shoot........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny Posted October 15, 2017 Report Share Posted October 15, 2017 Why not stand the guns the other side of the bank so the birds can see them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Neal Posted October 27, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2017 If you can get the treasurer to approve expenditure on the full cans i promise ill do my best to empty them. It'll be a terrible job but if its for the good of the shoot........ I'll shoulder the burden as well if that's the best plan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Neal Posted October 27, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2017 (edited) Why not stand the guns the other side of the bank so the birds can see them? Sorry John I forgot to look back at this last week. I think the reason that possibly wouldn't work is you'll still have the same problem, the birds will be skimming over your head on the way past. However there is the possibility that the disturbance from getting the guns over the bank and lined out might push the birds away so they're flushed from further back... but then there's equally the danger that they'll either panic and fly back as the guns are sorting themselves out, or just flush the wrong way as the beaters approach (I'd guess sideways towards the road). When you think about it, on most drives the birds can clearly see the guns but it doesn't stop them flying straight over them or seem to influence their height. It's all guess work really until you get aggressive in your approach and try lots of different ways, but we seem to get a bit stuck in a rut and keep doing the same thing... same thing same results... I suppose you can't really gamble too much as it's people's day out shooting you're dealing with. I still think the best shot on that drive I've ever seen is last year when you took the branch off that tree and it fell on your head :lol: Just as an update for anyone else following this, last weekend we sent two flaggers over the bank when the drive was underway, about one third in from each end of the gun line. I can't say it was a massive success but there were a few more shot than the last time.... but I don't know if the birds flew any differently as I wasn't in a very good position to see Edited October 27, 2017 by Jim Neal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted October 28, 2017 Report Share Posted October 28, 2017 Jim, keep trying new ideas, as you say, "same thing same results." I have been to too many shoots where if it doesn't work, then exactly the same set up is used on the next shoot and afterwards everyone says "well that happened last time" Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Neal Posted October 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2017 Thanks Dave That drive isn't on the patch I look after so I can only make suggestions, which quite often are shot down in flames because my ideas sound too bonkers or too much like hard work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehb102 Posted October 30, 2017 Report Share Posted October 30, 2017 I just web searched "sewelling". You don't want to do THAT at work. OED says " Sewelling in a piece of cord with rags and feathers fixed at every six inches..at a reasonable distance in front of the guns will ensure good flying birds." Basically some kind of scare device, yes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 Yes Madam, a little incentive to get the little darlings in the air! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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