Harnser Posted January 5, 2018 Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 36 minutes ago, old'un said: do you have a link to the story? No . Was told today by a shoot captain . He told me the name of the shoot, but I am not prepared to say which one, but it is a big one . The BBC will be proud of this one . harnser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted January 5, 2018 Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 1 hour ago, Harnser said: Just heard today that panorama is putting out a program soon that was made under cover at one of the big Yorkshire shoots . Graphic footage of the bag being burned after the shoot . This will put the cat among the pigeons . harnser If true, this is just what I was dreading happening!............But if nothing else, it may answer the difference of opinion between scully and myself, as to what constitutes sporting shooting and what constitutes killing wild creatures in a commercial transaction, purely for pleasure and enjoyment.......in my judgment shooting will have no other option but to use this difference as the battlefield? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted January 5, 2018 Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 11 minutes ago, panoma1 said: If true, this is just what I was dreading happening!............But if nothing else, it may answer the difference of opinion between scully and myself, as to what constitutes sporting shooting and what constitutes killing wild creatures in a commercial transaction, purely for pleasure and enjoyment.......in my judgment shooting will have no other option but to use this difference as the battlefield? My old mentor used to tell me that the thrill was in the stalk and not in the kill . He was absolutely correct . harnser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted January 5, 2018 Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 2 hours ago, Harnser said: Just heard today that panorama is putting out a program soon that was made under cover at one of the big Yorkshire shoots . Graphic footage of the bag being burned after the shoot . This will put the cat among the pigeons . harnser 2 hours ago, Harnser said: Just heard today that panorama is putting out a program soon that was made under cover at one of the big Yorkshire shoots . Graphic footage of the bag being burned after the shoot . This will put the cat among the pigeons . harnser Actual footage of the actual birds, or just a staged "bonfire"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokersmith Posted January 5, 2018 Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 Panorama tend to be quite accurate, I fear the worst ..... but at the same time ... it does need sorting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted January 5, 2018 Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 14 minutes ago, Harnser said: My old mentor used to tell me that the thrill was in the stalk and not in the kill . He was absolutely correct . harnser Interesting. So when pigeon shooting, you let them come to the decoys and not pull the trigger? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted January 5, 2018 Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 11 minutes ago, motty said: Interesting. So when pigeon shooting, you let them come to the decoys and not pull the trigger? Didn't know shooting pigeon over decoys was classified as 'stalking'?......every days a school day eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted January 5, 2018 Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 3 minutes ago, panoma1 said: Didn't know shooting pigeon over decoys was classified as 'stalking'?......every days a school day eh? Thought the topic was about pheasant shooting. Didn't realise they were stalked, either! Either way, I didn't see the relevance of Harnser's last post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted January 5, 2018 Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 22 minutes ago, motty said: Thought the topic was about pheasant shooting. Didn't realise they were stalked, either! Either way, I didn't see the relevance of Harnser's last post. I was trying to explain the ethics and morality of shooting . It’s obviously lost on you . harnser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted January 5, 2018 Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 I wouldn't be inclined to worry about the Panorama programme just yet. If this thread is representative of we shooters as a whole then the LACS et al who have undoubtably been following it will be well aware that we're already well divided. Panorama, if actually needed, will simply be the coup de grace. Not a bad start to the year! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad93 Posted January 5, 2018 Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 I know what harnser means. The pleasure is watching your dog work a copse, working the line with a team of beaters, the time put in to raising the poults, keeping on top of the foxes, everything that goes in to the birds and the teamwork involved, for it all to come together and provide some healthy, fit sporting birds. To put a bird on the table as well is the best part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted January 5, 2018 Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 3 minutes ago, Brad93 said: I know what harnser means. The pleasure is watching your dog work a copse, working the line with a team of beaters, the time put in to raising the poults, keeping on top of the foxes, everything that goes in to the birds and the teamwork involved, for it all to come together and provide some healthy, fit sporting birds. To put a bird on the table as well is the best part. You sound like a proper shooting man brad . Well done . harnser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevo Posted January 5, 2018 Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 4 minutes ago, wymberley said: I wouldn't be inclined to worry about the Panorama programme just yet. If this thread is representative of we shooters as a whole then the LACS et al who have undoubtably been following it will be well aware that we're already well divided. Panorama, if actually needed, will simply be the coup de grace. Not a bad start to the year! ?your not wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted January 5, 2018 Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 18 minutes ago, Harnser said: I was trying to explain the ethics and morality of shooting . It’s obviously lost on you . harnser I must have missed that bit. You explained nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted January 5, 2018 Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 None so blind eh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted January 5, 2018 Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 9 minutes ago, motty said: I must have missed that bit. You explained nothing. Then I must apologise.it was rather subtle . harnser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad93 Posted January 5, 2018 Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 25 minutes ago, Harnser said: You sound like a proper shooting man brad . Well done . harnser If you live your life chasing numbers or ever bigger bags, you’re going to have a very stressful and not very fulfilling time. Like you say, it’s subtle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted January 5, 2018 Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 1 hour ago, stevo said: ?your not wrong Hoping I'm not right. With a bit of luck the bonfire will be for the reason already described - and if you believe even a half of what one reads that'll be down to those Guns who turned up with 32" barrels, 3/4 by Full choke firing 36g of No 4s when 1&1/16 oz of no 6 would have sufficed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted January 5, 2018 Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 1 hour ago, Harnser said: Then I must apologise.it was rather subtle . harnser You do amuse me. I asked you two direct questions. You have chosen to ignore both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Engineer Posted January 5, 2018 Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 (edited) Hopefully there is no 'war' on our sport, just feels that way due to the very vocal people who would rather we didn't have guns and would rather we didn't use them to shoot some pheasant for the table or foxes to spare the chicken roost. Either way let's hope BASC and the like improve the image of field sports in the public's eye.... This is my first season with a peg on a local small syndicate with 60 to 80 bird bags (I'm usually a clay shooter) and whilst I've thoroughly enjoyed it, there have been one or two guests who are purely concerned with downing as many birds as possible and those gents tend to also go on the huge bag shoots. I've been on a couple of days where the bag was over 250 and I prefer our shoot: small, friendly and the birds are taken to eat. The comaradery and social aspect of the guns, beaters and the dogs working the land and enjoying the beautiful countryside is what it's about for me. I've also been able to win some skeptical/anti hunting friends and co-workers round with a free duck or pheasant and chat about how it is about as free range as you can get. Id be gutted if my new found passion for field sports is taken away due to it being banned through idiots and greed. Edited January 5, 2018 by The_Engineer Spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted January 5, 2018 Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 6 hours ago, panoma1 said: I repeat I do not "kill wild animals for no other reason than enjoyment or entertainment" do you? If you do? Go and buy a few dozen pheasants stick em in a small cage and blast away at them with your shotgun until they are all dead! Because that is killing animals "for no other reason than enjoyment or entertainment" equally shooting large numbers of pheasants commercially, when the guns don't want em and the meat is wasted............can probably be described as sic "killing wild animals for no other reason than enjoyment or entertainment"....and paying huge amounts of money to do so! over to you! Yes, I kill wild animals because I enjoy the thrill of putting my skill with a shotgun against winged quarry, and for no other reason. I love it with a passion more than I can convey. I love driven shooting and decoying; especially those high wind driven fast curling pheasants and fast jinking and twisting pigeons. I love to see those challenging birds fold up dead in the air after I’ve whipped the muzzles through, and come crashing down to earth; and with pigeons that explosion of ‘chaf’ as they fly through a stream of no6 shot from a full choke. I find it exhilarating beyond belief. I’ll do it all day if possible. It isn’t ‘sporting’ because at the risk of sounding big headed I don’t miss much. I do miss of course, but not often. I also wound, like everyone else, but it doesn’t deter me at all. The more difficult it is the better. The more memorable the shot the better, and it can take just one cracking bird enough to make my day, but if the birds aren’t there I’m disappointed to the same extent I’m disappointed if the birds don’t show when decoying. I wont shoot easy birds ( unless decoying ) not because they’re ‘unsporting’ but because there is no challenge in it and it ruins the meat. Bolting bunnies to guns is on a par with decoying as far as that ‘buzz ‘ is concerned. It isn’t sporting because if we do our part the quarry doesn’t stand a chance; every conceivable advantage over the bird is given to the shooter. ill debate with antis also, and have done so in the past, and when they ask me why I do it I’ll tell them with honesty; because I love it. It’s quite hard to put my finger on it as I’ve had to explain that while I don’t relish seeing things die, and I especially regret seeing them wounded, i don’t care enough to stop doing it. I don’t despise antis because they oppose what I do, but because of the way they oppose what I do, with hypocrisy, deceit and dishonesty. You carry on, and sincerely enjoy yourself, but at the end of your ‘activity’ leading up to that point, you’re still killing for your own satisfaction and enjoyment, and everyone knows that. If you’re not then leave your gun at home; you can hunt without the kill. I don’t shoot foxes anymore because I always felt remorseful afterwards, and I don’t trap anymore in case I kill a mustelid, which I adore. Pheasants and pigeons I could shoot all day; the former ( like grouse and partridge ) are catered for and to for no other reason than to be shot. Man exploits them for his own benefit and enjoyment; they are bred for no other reason. ‘Sport’ ? Really? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted January 5, 2018 Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 36 minutes ago, motty said: You do amuse me. I asked you two direct questions. You have chosen to ignore both. Motty . I have answered your questions. Please sit down and read what I have written . If you concentrate hard enough you will understand where I am coming from . harnser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted January 5, 2018 Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 6 minutes ago, Scully said: Yes, I kill wild animals because I enjoy the thrill of putting my skill with a shotgun against winged quarry, and for no other reason. I love it with a passion more than I can convey. I love driven shooting and decoying; especially those high wind driven fast curling pheasants and fast jinking and twisting pigeons. I love to see those challenging birds fold up dead in the air after I’ve whipped the muzzles through, and come crashing down to earth; and with pigeons that explosion of ‘chaf’ as they fly through a stream of no6 shot from a full choke. I find it exhilarating beyond belief. I’ll do it all day if possible. It isn’t ‘sporting’ because at the risk of sounding big headed I don’t miss much. I do miss of course, but not often. I also wound, like everyone else, but it doesn’t deter me at all. The more difficult it is the better. The more memorable the shot the better, and it can take just one cracking bird enough to make my day, but if the birds aren’t there I’m disappointed to the same extent I’m disappointed if the birds don’t show when decoying. I wont shoot easy birds ( unless decoying ) not because they’re ‘unsporting’ but because there is no challenge in it and it ruins the meat. Bolting bunnies to guns is on a par with decoying as far as that ‘buzz ‘ is concerned. It isn’t sporting because if we do our part the quarry doesn’t stand a chance; every conceivable advantage over the bird is given to the shooter. ill debate with antis also, and have done so in the past, and when they ask me why I do it I’ll tell them with honesty; because I love it. It’s quite hard to put my finger on it as I’ve had to explain that while I don’t relish seeing things die, and I especially regret seeing them wounded, i don’t care enough to stop doing it. I don’t despise antis because they oppose what I do, but because of the way they oppose what I do, with hypocrisy, deceit and dishonesty. You carry on, and sincerely enjoy yourself, but at the end of your ‘activity’ leading up to that point, you’re still killing for your own satisfaction and enjoyment, and everyone knows that. If you’re not then leave your gun at home; you can hunt without the kill. I don’t shoot foxes anymore because I always felt remorseful afterwards, and I don’t trap anymore in case I kill a mustelid, which I adore. Pheasants and pigeons I could shoot all day; the former ( like grouse and partridge ) are catered for and to for no other reason than to be shot. Man exploits them for his own benefit and enjoyment; they are bred for no other reason. ‘Sport’ ? Really? Very succinct. Too many folk these days, I feel, seem to want to apologise for the pursuits they take part in, or to make up reasons for shooting what they do, in order to justify it. I enjoy pulling the trigger, and I won't apologise for that. I enjoy fast and furious action when in the field. This is not the only pleasure I get from being outdoors with gun, dog and friends, but it is a massive part of it. 3 minutes ago, Harnser said: Motty . I have answered your questions. Please sit down and read what I have written . If you concentrate hard enough you will understand where I am coming from . harnser You clearly haven't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted January 5, 2018 Report Share Posted January 5, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Scully said: Yes, I kill wild animals because I enjoy the thrill of putting my skill with a shotgun against winged quarry, and for no other reason. I love it with a passion more than I can convey. I love driven shooting and decoying; especially those high wind driven fast curling pheasants and fast jinking and twisting pigeons. I love to see those challenging birds fold up dead in the air after I’ve whipped the muzzles through, and come crashing down to earth; and with pigeons that explosion of ‘chaf’ as they fly through a stream of no6 shot from a full choke. I find it exhilarating beyond belief. I’ll do it all day if possible. It isn’t ‘sporting’ because at the risk of sounding big headed I don’t miss much. I do miss of course, but not often. I also wound, like everyone else, but it doesn’t deter me at all. The more difficult it is the better. The more memorable the shot the better, and it can take just one cracking bird enough to make my day, but if the birds aren’t there I’m disappointed to the same extent I’m disappointed if the birds don’t show when decoying. I wont shoot easy birds ( unless decoying ) not because they’re ‘unsporting’ but because there is no challenge in it and it ruins the meat. Bolting bunnies to guns is on a par with decoying as far as that ‘buzz ‘ is concerned. It isn’t sporting because if we do our part the quarry doesn’t stand a chance; every conceivable advantage over the bird is given to the shooter. ill debate with antis also, and have done so in the past, and when they ask me why I do it I’ll tell them with honesty; because I love it. It’s quite hard to put my finger on it as I’ve had to explain that while I don’t relish seeing things die, and I especially regret seeing them wounded, i don’t care enough to stop doing it. I don’t despise antis because they oppose what I do, but because of the way they oppose what I do, with hypocrisy, deceit and dishonesty. You carry on, and sincerely enjoy yourself, but at the end of your ‘activity’ leading up to that point, you’re still killing for your own satisfaction and enjoyment, and everyone knows that. If you’re not then leave your gun at home; you can hunt without the kill. I don’t shoot foxes anymore because I always felt remorseful afterwards, and I don’t trap anymore in case I kill a mustelid, which I adore. Pheasants and pigeons I could shoot all day; the former ( like grouse and partridge ) are catered for and to for no other reason than to be shot. Man exploits them for his own benefit and enjoyment; they are bred for no other reason. ‘Sport’ ? Really? You now say you kill animals because you "enjoy the thrill of putting my skill with a shotgun against winged quarry, and for no other reason".........your emphasis is on the skill, not the killing.....skill with the gun is one aspect of my enjoyment of the sport too! But you said previously "don't kid yourself that you're killing for any other reason than you're own pleasure" that implies the killing is the only reason to shoot! You have it appears, contradicted yourself, in that it's your skill with the gun that gives you pleasure not the act of killing! You say you will "not shoot easy birds (unless decoying) because there is no 'challenge' in it" this is completely at odds with your previos accusation of shooters only "killing things for your own pleasure" it is that 'challenge' that is another aspect of the 'sport' of shooting! You also say you "don't relish seeing things die".....so you don't in fact, kill things for no other reason than pleasure? I agree with most of what you write above, I too love shooting with a passion, and have done so for over 50 years! But as you have conceded above, shooting, as a sport, is more than just killing things, in fact killing things is a very small part of the whole sporting experience! Edited January 5, 2018 by panoma1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted January 6, 2018 Report Share Posted January 6, 2018 Fair enough, but as Motty has said, too many folk seem to feel they have to justify what they do to the extent they are almost apologetic about it. I’m in full agreement with him. Let me have one last attempt at explaining my interpretation of sport and sporting. We all know of the phrases ‘he’s a good sport’; given a ‘sporting chance’ and other such terms. To me such terms infer fairness in attitude and practise; I don’t consider there is anything fair about shooting soft skinned quarry with either shotguns or rifles; they simply don’t stand a chance against an ounce of lead shot or a few grains of a lead projectile travelling at huge velocities and impacting with terminal velocity. I don’t consider it ‘sport’ or ‘sporting’ because they simply don’t stand a chance. Every time I hear someone going on about a ‘sporting shot’ I shake my head; the term baffles me. This doesn’t sort the problem of the topic of this thread of course, and while I can understand why people pay to do it it’s not for me as I genuinely believe I’d get bored. Saying that I would gladly pay to shoot doves in Argentina. I just think we need to be honest with ourselves, about why we do what we do. Enjoy your days shooting; we have a rough shoot planned for today but I can’t attend as I have ‘man flu’. Feel like ?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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