Side by Side Club

[London Best]

1 hour ago, Gunman said:

Interesting comments on old gunmakers shops . I at some time have done work for both George Lewis , and Benjamin Wild . Gun shops in Birmingham were usualy dark and rarely clean or tidy with tools piled up on benches .Having worked in one of those shops , due to age of the dilapidated buildings it was not a matter of not having pride , it was more just getting on with it and making a living and not a terribly good one at that for many of the men who worked there .

At the time when I first went to Benjamin Wild’s  I was just coming to the end of a toolmaking apprenticeship which had been served in a dirty, draughty workshop in a very old building. It was bad, but not quite so Dickensian as some of the places on Price Street!

[Pukka Bundook]

Bert's old gun.

Gents, I feel I should tell you the story of this old gun.

HJ Hussey, early 1900's but forget the date.

It was one of a pair made for Donald Vaughn Sinclair.  Maybe better known to some as Seigfried Farrnham of James Herriot fame.

As you know he was in the Thirsk area of the North Riding.

Alf White (Herriot)  lived at Thurlby, by Lake Gormire , at bottom of Sutton Bank.

Just across the lake lived Bert Hartley, a gamekeeper.

I am not sure how Bert acquired  this gun from Mr Sinclair, but he wound up with it.

Bert used it for his everyday work, and also at clay pigeon shoots.

If you were visiting with Bert and his wife Nora, and commented on something nice in their house, like a mantle clock or dinner service, Nora would say, "Yes, Bert won that at a clay pigeon shoot".

It seems everything they had that was nice, Bert won.

Bert was very devout, but his brother was not.

At clay shoots, Bert's brother always had his name put down as "Black Cat" and it was either Bert or Black Cat won.

They were both fantastic shots.

One time my old pal at home Ken Roberts of Scalby, near Scarborouh who knew Bert well, went for a days ferreting with Bert.

Ken said he would work the ferrets and Bert would shoot the bolted rabbits.

they pooled their cartridges and had 42 for Bert to use.

Ken worked the ferrets, Bert shot, and later in the day Bert said to Ken, "Well Ken, this is my last cartridge"  at that a rabbit bolted and Bert knocked it over.

They had 42 rabbits for 42 shots.

After Bert's passing, I bought the gun from Nora.

this was about 1982 I think.

I sent the barrels to be re-blacked , as years of ferreting and normal gamekeeper duties had removed most of it.

Lots more about Bert, but best leave that for now.

Will attach pics off my phone ASAP!

All best,

R.

Edited yesterday at 14:01 by Pukka Bundook

[Pukka Bundook]

PS,

The Smythe case was just to prop the gun up!  No case of its own, but I Did get an old Joe Manton case from Bert's wood shed...

[London Best]

A nice story. 
And every inch a ‘best’ London gun.

[kevin55]

1 hour ago, Pukka Bundook said:

Bert's old gun.

Gents, I feel I should tell you the story of this old gun.

HJ Hussey, early 1900's but forget the date.

It was one of a pair made for Donald Vaughn Sinclair.  Maybe better known to some as Seigfried Farrnham of James Herriot fame.

As you know he was in the Thirsk area of the North Riding.

Alf White (Herriot)  lived at Thurlby, by Lake Gormire , at bottom of Sutton Bank.

Just across the lake lived Bert Hartley, a gamekeeper.

I am not sure how Bert acquired  this gun from Mr Sinclair, but he wound up with it.

Bert used it for his everyday work, and also at clay pigeon shoots.

If you were visiting with Bert and his wife Nora, and commented on something nice in their house, like a mantle clock or dinner service, Nora would say, "Yes, Bert won that at a clay pigeon shoot".

It seems everything they had that was nice, Bert won.

Bert was very devout, but his brother was not.

At clay shoots, Bert's brother always had his name put down as "Black Cat" and it was either Bert or Black Cat won.

They were both fantastic shots.

One time my old pal at home Ken Roberts of Scalby, near Scarborouh who knew Bert well, went for a days ferreting with Bert.

Ken said he would work the ferrets and Bert would shoot the bolted rabbits.

they pooled their cartridges and had 42 for Bert to use.

Ken worked the ferrets, Bert shot, and later in the day Bert said to Ken, "Well Ken, this is my last cartridge"  at that a rabbit bolted and Bert knocked it over.

They had 42 rabbits for 42 shots.

After Bert's passing, I bought the gun from Nora.

this was about 1982 I think.

I sent the barrels to be re-blacked , as years of ferreting and normal gamekeeper duties had removed most of it.

Lots more about Bert, but best leave that for now.

Will attach pics off my phone ASAP!

All best,

R.

1 hour ago, Pukka Bundook said:

Bert's old gun.

Gents, I feel I should tell you the story of this old gun.

HJ Hussey, early 1900's but forget the date.

It was one of a pair made for Donald Vaughn Sinclair.  Maybe better known to some as Seigfried Farrnham of James Herriot fame.

As you know he was in the Thirsk area of the North Riding.

Alf White (Herriot)  lived at Thurlby, by Lake Gormire , at bottom of Sutton Bank.

Just across the lake lived Bert Hartley, a gamekeeper.

I am not sure how Bert acquired  this gun from Mr Sinclair, but he wound up with it.

Bert used it for his everyday work, and also at clay pigeon shoots.

If you were visiting with Bert and his wife Nora, and commented on something nice in their house, like a mantle clock or dinner service, Nora would say, "Yes, Bert won that at a clay pigeon shoot".

It seems everything they had that was nice, Bert won.

Bert was very devout, but his brother was not.

At clay shoots, Bert's brother always had his name put down as "Black Cat" and it was either Bert or Black Cat won.

They were both fantastic shots.

One time my old pal at home Ken Roberts of Scalby, near Scarborouh who knew Bert well, went for a days ferreting with Bert.

Ken said he would work the ferrets and Bert would shoot the bolted rabbits.

they pooled their cartridges and had 42 for Bert to use.

Ken worked the ferrets, Bert shot, and later in the day Bert said to Ken, "Well Ken, this is my last cartridge"  at that a rabbit bolted and Bert knocked it over.

They had 42 rabbits for 42 shots.

After Bert's passing, I bought the gun from Nora.

this was about 1982 I think.

I sent the barrels to be re-blacked , as years of ferreting and normal gamekeeper duties had removed most of it.

Lots more about Bert, but best leave that for now.

Will attach pics off my phone ASAP!

All best,

R.

Very nice indeed, especially with the history

 

[enfieldspares]

It's ill to speak bad of the dead but I did maybe now twenty years ago have full access to all of the original of Webley's registers and day books and etc.. Some were not very interesting being for example .32 Humane Killer Pistols. But others were very interesting. 

I was mostly interested in the pistols. For example the last Webley .455 Mk VI was sold in 1957 marked out as "to Nigeria". Also many Mk VI that failed the government inspection during WWI were noted as "failed inspection...sold as private". In other words they were then finished as commercial guns and sold to  the trade for private purchase. 

What I did note of shotguns were that they made many for William Evans including notably one noted as "7th quality, engraved and finished as 1st". But back to the point. There was one entry I noted regarding George Lewis as to "No further credit. All future transactions to be cash only." 

[Feltwad]

3 hours ago, Pukka Bundook said:

PS,

The Smythe case was just to prop the gun up!  No case of its own, but I Did get an old Joe Manton case from Bert's wood shed...

Enclosed are images of J.F.Smythe  better known has the gun maker of the North

a20bore hammer gun 

 

 

[enfieldspares]

29 minutes ago, Feltwad said:

Enclosed are images of J.F.Smythe  better known has the gun maker of the North

a20bore hammer gun 

 

 

What I like to do is use Google maps and the little yellow man to try and walk along the street and see what the premises looks like today. Sometimes the same building still exists and sometimes it has gone. 

Here's Pape's 29 Collingwood Street, Newcastle.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/29+Collingwood+St,+Newcastle+upon+Tyne+NE1+1JE/@54.9697349,-1.6137763,3a,75y,142.59h,103.01t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sR9xaD5-7yuz7mETsd8YimA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D-13.006594824431517%26panoid%3DR9xaD5-7yuz7mETsd8YimA%26yaw%3D142.59404540139013!7i16384!8i8192!4m6!3m5!1s0x487e70b42aefa6b9:0x823eab06a1f9a141!8m2!3d54.9696683!4d-1.6137022!16s%2Fg%2F11c28nnw1q?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDMwNC4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

And a forlorn looking William Powell on Carrs Lane, Birmingham.

https://www.google.com/maps/@52.4797126,-1.8940379,3a,75y,23.31h,101.6t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1snqRsA5_hioY7nRJObLwi1w!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D-11.595451494613954%26panoid%3DnqRsA5_hioY7nRJObLwi1w%26yaw%3D23.30602058645601!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDMwNC4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

Edited yesterday at 18:27 by enfieldspares

[Dave at kelton]

On 05/03/2025 at 10:58, London Best said:

At the time when I first went to Benjamin Wild’s  I was just coming to the end of a toolmaking apprenticeship which had been served in a dirty, draughty workshop in a very old building. It was bad, but not quite so Dickensian as some of the places on Price Street!

That was my “go to” gunsmith in Brum. If Colin or Bryan couldn’t do it they passed it to someone who could. I spent many happy times having a brew with Colin or chatting as he worked at his blueing tank 

[Old Boggy]

14 hours ago, enfieldspares said:

What I like to do is use Google maps and the little yellow man to try and walk along the street and see what the premises looks like today. Sometimes the same building still exists and sometimes it has gone. 

Here's Pape's 29 Collingwood Street, Newcastle.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/29+Collingwood+St,+Newcastle+upon+Tyne+NE1+1JE/@54.9697349,-1.6137763,3a,75y,142.59h,103.01t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sR9xaD5-7yuz7mETsd8YimA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D-13.006594824431517%26panoid%3DR9xaD5-7yuz7mETsd8YimA%26yaw%3D142.59404540139013!7i16384!8i8192!4m6!3m5!1s0x487e70b42aefa6b9:0x823eab06a1f9a141!8m2!3d54.9696683!4d-1.6137022!16s%2Fg%2F11c28nnw1q?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDMwNC4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

 

Reminds me of my lovely old 16 bore Pape BLE. Another gun I regret selling.

[London Best]

59 minutes ago, Old Boggy said:

Reminds me of my lovely old 16 bore Pape BLE. Another gun I regret selling.

What a beautifully filed action on a lovely old gun. 
But I have to say that, personally speaking, I have never liked engraving on the breech ends of barrels.

[islandgun]

2 hours ago, Old Boggy said:

Reminds me of my lovely old 16 bore Pape BLE. Another gun I regret selling.

Stunning OB theres a Pape 16 bore on Castle gunmakers site on GT I wont tell you how much for fear of depressing you further..😉 Heres a picture of my two midland guns a 16 bore Westley Richards and the T Wild 12 bore as featured on here..😊

 

[Pukka Bundook]

 

5 hours ago, Old Boggy said:

Reminds me of my lovely old 16 bore Pape BLE. Another gun I regret selling.

Beautiful old gun, OB.

Very high end and a very good maker.

My only Pape is a clapped out pinfire owned one  time by my best friend, but came to Canada with me. It was his father's gun.  He was a policeman and very good at kneecapping miscreants with his stick!

 

Lovely pair there, Island gun!

Edited 4 hours ago by Pukka Bundook