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Thomas Luke

Performance of 'traditional' vs 'eco' clays?

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    On 12/09/2018 at 11:15, Thomas Luke said:

    Thanks to everyone who has commented, for your replies and interest.

    I noted a few comments asking about the purpose of the study. Essentially, there is a regulation at EU level which will mean that the manufacturing of targets which contain coal tar pitch will require a form of approval towards the end of 2020. To obtain this approval it is necessary to perform an assessment of whether alternatives are available or not – and whether they perform as well / are economical. I am undertaking research that will help with this assessment.

    As per my original post there is a lot of conflicting information regarding the quality of the different target types and I am now attempting to gather information from shooters. At the moment this is very generic (i.e. asking about ‘traditional’ versus ‘eco’ clays) but going forward I may put together an online questionnaire that is more detailed and specific.

    If this happens, I will provide further information on this forum so that anyone who is interested may participate.

    Kind regards

    I see; they have to be safe to use, effective, affordable and non-toxic. 'ere, hang on, haven't I heard that before?

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    Coal comes out of the environment , pitch / tar comes out of the environment, limestone comes out of the environment , Lead comes out of the environment . What is the issue , Thomas Luke ? 

    Let us not play cloak and dagger , tell us what you would like to research and why and I am sure we will all be only happy to help.

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    On 26/10/2018 at 09:00, wymberley said:

    I see; they have to be safe to use, effective, affordable and non-toxic. 'ere, hang on, haven't I heard that before?

    I thought they were already all of the above?

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    On 13/09/2018 at 21:50, Stimo22 said:

    Standard clay can contaminate rape crop if they are used when it is in flower. This may seem unlikely but we have lost one of our ground because it really did happen to us. The land owner was threatened will a bill of millions by the mill because of it. On our current ground we are a lot more carefull where we throw the clays an what onto. 

    We have had a similar problem in the past. Supermarkets complaining of bits of clay targets but also lead shot in cabbage plants. The cabbage grows around the clay or lead and then is found by the consumer when preparing it, to be cooked.  That is when the compo based, brown sticky stuff hits the fan  !

    Edited by Westley

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    1 hour ago, Westley said:

    We have had a similar problem in the past. Supermarkets complaining of bits of clay targets but also lead shot in cabbage plants. The cabbage grows around the clay or lead and then is found by the consumer when preparing it, to be cooked.  That is when the compo based, brown sticky stuff hits the fan  !

    If that is the case then surely the answer is not to shoot over crops consumed by humans, as I’m assuming steel shot, fibre and plastic wads could also contaminate the product in a very similar way? 

    We shoot clays on a commercial clay shooting ground where the vast majority of clays and lead shot land in the winter barley. The landowner seems unconcerned, but possibly all his winter barley is consumed as feed by his own stock. 

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    Westley ,

    I think your comments may be incorrect.

    Most food processers have sensors on the conveyor belts that shutt down the belt if contaminates are detected such as metallic particles and pitch or bitumastic .

    A factory near here in Hereford certainly does and it can detect clay fragments.

    Perhaps another 'old wives ' tale to drive another  nail into the shooting sports coffin?

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    1 hour ago, Salopian said:

    Westley ,

    I think your comments may be incorrect.

    Most food processers have sensors on the conveyor belts that shutt down the belt if contaminates are detected such as metallic particles and pitch or bitumastic .

    A factory near here in Hereford certainly does and it can detect clay fragments.

    Perhaps another 'old wives ' tale to drive another  nail into the shooting sports coffin?

    This. The Cheese Company I worked for for many years had just such a mechanism in place  as part of the processing of cheese. The only thing it couldn’t detect were amputated fingers! 😳

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    8 hours ago, Salopian said:

    Westley ,

    I think your comments may be incorrect.

    Most food processers have sensors on the conveyor belts that shutt down the belt if contaminates are detected such as metallic particles and pitch or bitumastic .

    A factory near here in Hereford certainly does and it can detect clay fragments.

    Perhaps another 'old wives ' tale to drive another  nail into the shooting sports coffin?

    Incorrect or otherwise, we were forced to stop shooting the DTL layout until the cabbage had been picked  !  The alternative was to lose the shooting ground and THAT was not an option, it took us long enough to find somewhere in the first place. 

     

    Only last year a local ground was forced to alter their targets to avoid a clay/shot fallout over cabbage and cauliflower plants, at least until they had been harvested. This year, due to crop rotation, things are back to normal.  Perhaps the Supermarkets are unaware of the wonders of technology ?  Maybe they only use braces and do not have the benefit of belts  ?  IF the Landowner says "No shooting over the crops" THEN no shooting it is  !  Far from any 'nails in coffins' the ground goes from strength to strength.

    Edited by Westley

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    Westley,

     I have to agree with you.

    I am surrounded by fields used to grow Supermarket vegetables, regularly ravaged by pigeons , went to see Farmer for permission . Not a chance .

    I cannot even shoot over fallow fields due to the risk of lead contamination to the soil . Detected  possibly in the harvested produce at a later date.

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    No ! He doesn't want any shooting on his crops at all due to metallic contamination being picked up by the sensors.

    Plus Steel is for barrels . Not for shot , hate steel shot and always have .

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    OK, just asking. We say steel shot but it is really soft iron. I have had to move over to it for wildfowling and it works at sensible ranges.

     

    David.

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    I have witnessed fields of cauliflowers ploughed back into the ground because they were all 'the wrong size'  for supermarkets  ?  ???

    At least I was able to get 2 sacks full, which went to 2 local care homes, beforehand.

    Edited by Westley

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    8 hours ago, Salopian said:

    .

    I cannot even shoot over fallow fields due to the risk of lead contamination to the soil . Detected  possibly in the harvested produce at a later date.

    I think lead is already present in the soil and many varieties of veg'. 

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    A farmer friend of mine wont allow shooting on his veg (caulis and cabbage mostly) once the plants start to close up and hold shot if it fell on them.  Wasn't an issue really as the birds weren't interested  by then and having 4 crops a year or so it wasn't long to wait. If at all. The reason was as stated above- the factories detected the shot and simply stoped buying from them. At 15p a plant with 8 pence profit (at the time , 7 years ago) and 15000 an acre over 150 acres,  it was a lot to miss out on and I don't blame him. 

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    On 16/09/2018 at 18:13, Harnser said:

    Maybe tin ones are the way to go . You listen for the ting if you hit them . They would last for ever . 

    Harnser

    Had Some made at a foundry years ago,Made of Ally..Painted Orange,and Some Florescent Yellow.

          They NEVER BROKE..But,, Did carry a Health Warning,,

          Richos, were common lol,Overhead they where fantastic,Full pattern drove them staright up at a good rate of knots.. Flew very well, More for fun really,Need the clays going away to be really safe..

                              Still got a few somewhere I think.lol.

     

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