ordnance Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, Vince Green said: Why do I need evidence? I prefaced my statement by saying in my opinion. I have no knowledge of the statements you make . I certainly don't know that they served him in the future, where did that come from? Is it really that likely if he was sueing them that he would go in there or that they would be happy to take his custom? sounds more than a bit far fetched to me Yep! I believe, end of Its just as well the UK courts work on evidence , and not like you i believe its my opinion that's good enough no evidence needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 Quote Vince Green That's still illegal. I see i am wasting my time trying to debate with someone that thinks they know the law better that 5 supreme court judges. The judges rightly found in Ashers favour and dismissed the discrimination case end off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 (edited) I was a bit shocked that the original complainant was discussing a possible appeal to the European Court of Human Rights, with his barrister. Who would be paying for that and why? Edited October 12, 2018 by Gordon R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjpainter Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 10 minutes ago, Vince Green said: Why do I need evidence? I prefaced my statement by saying in my opinion. I have no knowledge of the statements you make . I certainly don't know that they served him in the future, where did that come from? Is it really that likely if he was sueing them that he would go in there or that they would be happy to take his custom? sounds more than a bit far fetched to me Yep! I believe, end of Er because you're making unsubstantiated claims that are refuted elsewhere? so it'd make sense to be able to back up your claims? Speaking of the statements I make: The press summary of the reasons behind the ruling that it was not homophobic: https://www.supremecourt.uk/cases/docs/uksc-2017-0020-press-summary.pdf Mr McArthur of the bakery outside court in May: As he arrived outside the Supreme Court for the start of the case in May, Mr McArthur said: "We didn't say no because of the customer; we'd served him before, we'd serve him again.' https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-45789759 On the subject of the baker not knowing that the chap was gay... 'One of the bakers, Karen McArthur, said she did not know Mr Lee was gay and it would not have mattered as they would not have been prepared to make a cake with a pro-gay marriage slogan for anyone' https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-32065233 So there's the evidence. I could find some more if those aren't good enough for you. Then again, so could you if you looked for it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 (edited) I have to go to bed now as I have to be off to Wales at 6.30 in the morning but I have enjoyed the debate. Hope we have not ruffled too many feathers. At the end of the day, it was only a cake...…………. Edited October 12, 2018 by Vince Green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjpainter Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 (edited) Ask and you shall receive. All the evidence you could need that I haven't made stuff up. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-32065233 2 minutes ago, Vince Green said: I have to go to bed now as I have to be off to Wales at 6.30 in the morning but I have enjoyed the debate. Hope we have not ruffled too many feathers. At the end of the day, it was only a cake At the end of the day, not it wasn't as almost everyone else in the world seems to have appreciated, but not you... Edited October 12, 2018 by chrisjpainter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, chrisjpainter said: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-32065233 And for the head office comments. There ya go. At the end of the day, not it wasn't as almost everyone else in the world seems to have appreciated, but not you... goodnite, you know what? I really don't care enough to be bothered by it. Why does it bother you so much? Don't bother to reply, I won't be here to read it Edited October 12, 2018 by Vince Green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 Whilst I might not agree with Vince, he has a point. I know people are seeing "the bigger picture", but the original complainant seems hell bent on making the most out of it. He wasn't embarrassed in front of a shop of people. He was informed over the phone. The bakery respected his feelings, but he seems to have had no compunction in trying to embarrass them. Even when the Appeal Court Judges correctly ruled that the fact that he is gay wasn't a factor, he won't let go. That supports Vince's view to some extent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 8 minutes ago, Gordon R said: I was a bit shocked that the original complainant was discussing a possible appeal to the European Court of Human Rights, with his barrister. Who would be paying for that and why? I doubt that, he will not have the UK tax payers and the Northern Ireland equality commission paying the bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 (edited) ordnance - I agree. The potential action was mentioned by the head of the ECNI. He didn't say that they would be funding it - understandably given the clear ruling and subsequent flak, so why has it been mentioned? Even chatting to a barrister at this point will cost - plenty. Edited October 12, 2018 by Gordon R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjpainter Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 Just now, Gordon R said: Whilst I might not agree with Vince, he has a point. I know people are seeing "the bigger picture", but the original complainant seems hell bent on making the most out of it. He wasn't embarrassed in front of a shop of people. He was informed over the phone. The bakery respected his feelings, but he seems to have had no compunction in trying to embarrass them. Even when the Appeal Court Judges correctly ruled that the fact that he is gay wasn't a factor, he won't let go. That supports Vince's view to some extent. That I agree with too. It shouldn't have been made into something big, but by the time it came to the supreme court it was massive - because of the two previous rulings. It's worth pointing out that the claimant won the first two court appearances. It only got to the Supreme court because the appellants pushed it that far - and rightly so. You don't accept injustice, even if it's handed down by the justice system. What should have happened was (and what the supreme court implied and plenty of politicians, legal experts and interested parties pointed out) that it was booted out at first go. It was made big by the courts twice making judgements that were wholly incorrect and completely misinterpreted both the law and the facts. The moment that happened, it became huge. To accept the first two court rulings would set legal precedence that would have been dangerous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, Gordon R said: ordnance - I agree. The potential action was mentioned by the head of the ECNI. He didn't say that they would be funding it - understandably given the clear ruling and subsequent flak, so why has it been mentioned? Even chatting to a barrister at this point will cost - plenty. I am not sure the ECNI could fund it, they are a UK government body and have to accept the UKs supreme courts judgement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjpainter Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Vince Green said: goodnite, you know what? I really don't care enough to be bothered by it. Why does it bother you so much? you asked for evidence. I wouldn't want you to go to your beddy-byes without getting what you asked for. You can now go to bed with an answered question. Isn't that nice Edited October 12, 2018 by chrisjpainter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 Perhaps time to put the thread to bed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjpainter Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 8 minutes ago, Gordon R said: Perhaps time to put the thread to bed. Agreed. Unless someone wants to appeal...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 Vince, standing behind the it’s my opinion and I prefaced it as such argument is akin to saying ‘I know i’m talking utter ********, but i’m gonna continue regardless’ You are making up conjecture about what happened to back up your point of view, that’s a bit rubbish really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 12 minutes ago, grrclark said: Vince, standing behind the it’s my opinion and I prefaced it as such argument is akin to saying ‘I know i’m talking utter ********, but i’m gonna continue regardless’ You are making up conjecture about what happened to back up your point of view, that’s a bit rubbish really. + 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted October 13, 2018 Report Share Posted October 13, 2018 17 hours ago, Vince Green said: Why do I need evidence? I prefaced my statement by saying in my opinion. I have no knowledge of the statements you make . I certainly don't know that they served him in the future, where did that come from? Is it really that likely if he was sueing them that he would go in there or that they would be happy to take his custom? sounds more than a bit far fetched to me Yep! I believe, end of That's still illegal, there was no "head office", its a small family bakers, you really have to check the facts, not make things up. And while we are at it, can we have your sources for the quote from one of the shop staff? Head Office? please explain ? It took me 30 seconds to find out they have seven shops, ASHERS not really small at all. The evidence Chris wanted I believe was your assertion that they told the complainant (gobbed off) to leave and never come back. If there was evidence of this then it would be open and shut case, but no-one apart from you seems to know about this so please enlighten us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 On 12/10/2018 at 21:12, Vince Green said: I think the key piece of information which may have influenced opinions was the allegation that the complainant was (allegedly) told to leave the shop and never return. I believe this statement was subsequently denied so who really knows? This whole issue is never going to be resolved. As can be seen by views expressed on here views are polarised. If a baker in London had done this they would be a charity shop by now. I'm not gay but here in London gay people are everywhere, openly, nobody cares, nobody thinks anything of it. Why should they? What people want to do is their business. Only in Northern Ireland could this story have legs. it was homophobic, there can be no real doubt (can there be? really?), despite the BS protestations about religious freedom. I still think its amazing all this could kick off over a stupid cake, in this day and age?, and I do, totally, believe the complainant was told to leave the shop and don't come back we don't want your sort in here. straightforward gobbing off by the idiot manager, showing off in front of an audience he thought supported his view about gay people.. Words, nothing but words, but how much grief? how easily could it all have been prevented? I just don't understand how you've jumped to so many conclusions, you could flip it and argue just as hard there was religious hatred by going into a religious business and asking for something you knew they would find offensive, I'm not suggesting that's what happened either but both scenarios have the same amount of merit. Luckily in this case common sense appears to have prevailed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flynny Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 (edited) I'm glad I don't watch the news/ tv etc or listen to politics and have no interest in religion blah blah blah, who gives a monkeys chuff, i just just get on with MY life, and enjoy it, crack on lads who really gives a flying ****!!! hells bells flynny Edited October 14, 2018 by flynny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 37 minutes ago, flynny said: I'm glad I don't watch the news/ tv etc or listen to politics and have no interest in religion blah blah blah, who gives a monkeys chuff, i just just get on with MY life, and enjoy it, crack on lads who really gives a flying ****!!! hells bells flynny Seems you do or why are you responding, you are allowed to ignore threads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjpainter Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 2 minutes ago, ordnance said: Seems you do or why are you responding, you are allowed to ignore threads. Bear well poked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flynny Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 4 minutes ago, chrisjpainter said: Bear well poked Lol lol , hope you are well mate, sorry i couldnt resist lol, hence why I don't post much nowadays. YAAAAAWWWWNNNNNNN Flynny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 6 minutes ago, flynny said: Lol lol , hope you are well mate, sorry i couldnt resist lol, hence why I don't post much nowadays. YAAAAAWWWWNNNNNNN Flynny So as you say above you just come on for a bit of trolling nowadays, OK if it keeps you amused. 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadog1408 Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 Even ostriches can fall foul of life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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