Westward Posted November 14, 2018 Report Share Posted November 14, 2018 7 minutes ago, Hamster said: I know next to nothing about Venezuela or any other ruined country touted as proof socialism doesn't work, But do you know of any country where socialism has worked? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted November 14, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Westward said: But do you know of any country where socialism has worked? Depends, is China communist or socialist, does it even matter, am I a socialist ? I don't even know or think I am. There are at least half a dozen successful socialist countries in Europe alone, google and see, I will await the oh yeah but's................................with bated breath. Either way yes we know China has been doing what can be described as a damn good job compared to the rest of us, many like to dismiss Russia's economy as on the edge of failure but again having read alternative sources it appears they're far from it. Edited November 14, 2018 by Hamster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted November 14, 2018 Report Share Posted November 14, 2018 1 hour ago, henry d said: Second question first; not if he is disabled, not if the weather is rubbish, not if you sweep the oceans clean/electro fish the clams and everything else off the sea bed... Yes they will come, in their droves. I had the pleasure of talking with a few of the guys who serve with community dinners from Lisbon... https://vimeo.com/35566164 What if he just cant be bothered, because he knows you will just bring him another fish ? Again, keep spoon feeding them, they will continue to open their mouths, rather than trying to feed themselves, like babies. If you give people the incentive to better themselves, to gain some self respect, you will make some headway in trying to cure the problem. Throwing more money at it , is like throwing petrol on a fire to put it out. It attracts the next generation to the possibilities of a life never working, yet living comfortably at someone elses expense. It also attracts people from abroad to this life too. Perhaps why they trek through desert, sea and mountain to get here, the 'promised land' flowing with milk, honey, and benefits ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted November 14, 2018 Report Share Posted November 14, 2018 9 minutes ago, Hamster said: there's a 99% chance the US is behind their problems Sorry, but that is complete rubbish! Venezuela has the largest oil reserves in the world. The dogmatic socialism under Hugo Chavez (who was much praised by Corbyn and Co) and carried on since he died has completely wrecked what should be one of the richest countries in the world. People are starving, there is hyper inflation, and the economy has completely collapsed. The cause - the usual socialist problem of spending more than they had got (despite those huge oil reserves). See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crisis_in_Venezuela Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yod dropper Posted November 14, 2018 Report Share Posted November 14, 2018 A beautiful 19 seconds of Oh Jeremy Corbyn praising Venezuela and their socialism. 'A different and a better way of doing things, it's called socialism'. A few things about Venezuela. Average weight has fallen about a stone this year due to malnutrition. Inflation is anything from 1,000,000 to 4,000,000%. Bodies are left unclaimed in morgues, they don't have the power in this oil rich country to provide cooling so the bodies explode. The surrounding countries have shut their borders. As of a month ago the passport was put up to 4 months average salary. The government denies that millions have left the country. An opposition journalist recently jumped from a 10 story building. That's the same building that is used by the secret police (but let's talk about Saudi Arabia). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted November 14, 2018 Report Share Posted November 14, 2018 Im intrigued about these half dozen socialist countries in Europe, could you name them ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted November 14, 2018 Report Share Posted November 14, 2018 3 minutes ago, Hamster said: Depends, is China communist or socialist, does it even matter, am I a socialist ? I don't even know or think I am. There are at least half a dozen successful socialist countries in Europe alone, google and see, I will await the oh yeah but's................................with bated breath. Either way yes we know China has been doing what can be described as a damn good job compared to the rest of us, many like to dismiss Russia's economy as on the edge of failure but again having read alternative sources it appears they're far from it. China, good job, really? An authoritarian regime with an appaling record on human rights and a hideously oppressive social management approach. Do just a little bit of reading into how China is managing its Uighurs muslim population and come back and tell me they are doing a damn good job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted November 14, 2018 Report Share Posted November 14, 2018 Oh come on, let him believe in his socialist utopia! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted November 14, 2018 Report Share Posted November 14, 2018 5 minutes ago, Hamster said: Either way yes we know China has been doing what can be described as a damn good job compared to the rest of us, China operates a bizarre and 'unique' system which whilst nominally communist ......... has much of the industry owned by some of the richest people in the world. It has done incredibly well because it combines plentiful cheap labour, minimal 'regulation' with a strong capitalist 'money motivated' top tier of super rich. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yod dropper Posted November 14, 2018 Report Share Posted November 14, 2018 3 minutes ago, grrclark said: Do just a little bit of reading into how China is managing its Uighurs muslim population and come back and tell me they are doing a damn good job. That'll be the 40 or so 'voluntary' camps they've set up then that the Uighurs are 'choosing' to go to. That's the sort of news you get on MSM (credible news) rather than mouthpieces for Momentum and other anti-western, anti-capitalist alternative news sources (incredible). 7 minutes ago, Rewulf said: Im intrigued about these half dozen socialist countries in Europe, could you name them ? Me too. I seem to be missing this knowledge, perhaps I've been brainwashed by following the propaganda of the mainstream media. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted November 14, 2018 Report Share Posted November 14, 2018 1 minute ago, yod dropper said: That'll be the 40 or so 'voluntary' camps they've set up then that the Uighurs are 'choosing' to go to. That's the sort of news you get on MSM (credible news) rather than mouthpieces for Momentum and other anti-western, anti-capitalist alternative news sources (incredible). Yep, the “voluntary re-education camps” surrounded with double perimeter walls and rolls of barbed wire. The quoted phrase is exactly how they were described by the Chinese government. Hamster, on many of your points in this thread I support you, but using China as an exemplar of sound social policy you’re on your own, likewise with Russia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted November 14, 2018 Report Share Posted November 14, 2018 Succinct! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted November 14, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2018 So then they're NOT communist if they have managed to amass wealth and own most of America's bonds, I'll remember that the next time one of you jumps on the oh look at the disaster communism brings. This is the trouble with self induced blindness, selective memory. Some of the worst abuses of human rights committed are a lot closer to home than either China or Russia, it's just how you dress and sell war sorry conflict. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted November 14, 2018 Report Share Posted November 14, 2018 4 minutes ago, Hamster said: So then they're NOT communist if they have managed to amass wealth and own most of America's bonds, I'll remember that the next time one of you jumps on the oh look at the disaster communism brings. This is the trouble with self induced blindness, selective memory. Some of the worst abuses of human rights committed are a lot closer to home than either China or Russia, it's just how you dress and sell war sorry conflict. Blimey are you having a bad day, you've changed your argument AGAIN! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted November 14, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2018 1 minute ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: Blimey are you having a bad day, you've changed your argument AGAIN! What ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prospero Posted November 14, 2018 Report Share Posted November 14, 2018 Corbin and Co appeal to one type of person. That person is: my life is ****t and it's always someone else's fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yod dropper Posted November 14, 2018 Report Share Posted November 14, 2018 And the 43 minutes ago, Hamster said: at least half a dozen successful socialist countries in Europe alone are................ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted November 14, 2018 Report Share Posted November 14, 2018 We live in a time of less war than ever before, although as we are much more aware of what’s going on around the world we don’t think so. What China and Russia highlight very well is the virtue of an authoritarian and autocratic regimes, taken from a very particular viewpoint of course. Communism has collapsed all around the globe, not at the hand of the imperialistic demon US, but because of the fundamentals of human nature, mainly greed. Capitalism flourishes because of the very same thing. In both systems some people rise to the top and enjoy what that brings without consideration of those at the bottom. Really not so different at all because people are not so different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted November 14, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2018 10 minutes ago, yod dropper said: And the are................ Google is your friend (or enemy) in this case. 15 minutes ago, Prospero said: Corbin and Co appeal to one type of person. That person is: my life is ****t and it's always someone else's fault. My life is rather splendid and I have already stated I don't believe our woes are the Tory's "fault". Next pointless and unchallenging quip please......................😂 😴 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yod dropper Posted November 14, 2018 Report Share Posted November 14, 2018 1 minute ago, Hamster said: Google is your friend (or enemy) in this case. No, still can't find them. Which countries are this half dozen plus? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted November 14, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2018 12 minutes ago, grrclark said: We live in a time of less war than ever before, although as we are much more aware of what’s going on around the world we don’t think so. What China and Russia highlight very well is the virtue of an authoritarian and autocratic regimes, taken from a very particular viewpoint of course. Communism has collapsed all around the globe, not at the hand of the imperialistic demon US, but because of the fundamentals of human nature, mainly greed. Capitalism flourishes because of the very same thing. In both systems some people rise to the top and enjoy what that brings without consideration of those at the bottom. Really not so different at all because people are not so different. The first sign that capitalism fears others who may succeed is characterising and normalising terminology meant to demean, by any measure of decency the US and its "democratic" two party (one end result) system is a Regime. Good thing too, even the basics don't sound right to me. That did make me larf 😂 23 trillion $ worth of debt and with our world natural resources and world on the brink, that's some kind of flourish. 4 minutes ago, yod dropper said: No, still can't find them. Which countries are this half dozen plus? Is it because you can't bark na na na na na at your puter screen ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yod dropper Posted November 14, 2018 Report Share Posted November 14, 2018 5 minutes ago, Hamster said: Is it because you can't bark na na na na na at your puter screen ? No, I think it's because there aren't "at least half a dozen successful socialist countries in Europe alone". Can you back up your claim? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted November 14, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2018 Just now, yod dropper said: No, I think it's because there aren't "at least half a dozen successful socialist countries in Europe alone". Can you back up your claim? Can you type ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted November 14, 2018 Report Share Posted November 14, 2018 3 minutes ago, Hamster said: Is it because you can't bark na na na na na at your puter screen ? Ive googled it, and the answers are somewhat mixed, but most answers say there are NO socialist countries in Europe. There are socialist governments, social democratic governments, and countries with social policies. But to have a socialist country (in the true sense) you need a one party system with public ownership of most of industry and infrastructure. All European countries are capitalist democracies , which makes a socialist country impossible in most peoples eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yod dropper Posted November 14, 2018 Report Share Posted November 14, 2018 2 minutes ago, Hamster said: Can you type ? Yes but I'm not getting the results I'd expect if you were right. Just let us know which these 6+ countries are please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.