panoma1 Posted January 1, 2019 Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 As I recall Clay and Game data sheets do not give (or stipulate!) the brand of cartridge cases in their formulas, just parallel tube or compression formed (integral basewad) cases!.....assuming the Reifenhauser (parallel tube) cases all have a plastic basewad.......does the make of case matter, ballistically?......I do understand the volume of the case may differ and alter the component "fit"..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted January 1, 2019 Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 2 hours ago, panoma1 said: As I recall Clay and Game data sheets do not give (or stipulate!) the brand of cartridge cases in their formulas, just parallel tube or compression formed (integral basewad) cases!.....assuming the Reifenhauser (parallel tube) cases all have a plastic basewad.......does the make of case matter, ballistically?......I do understand the volume of the case may differ and alter the component "fit"..... They're all pretty much PT tube cases now. I would just try and pick one type that works well for you and stick with that for now. Stay with 70mm for simplicity. 2 hours ago, panoma1 said: As I recall Clay and Game data sheets do not give (or stipulate!) the brand of cartridge cases in their formulas, just parallel tube or compression formed (integral basewad) cases!.....assuming the Reifenhauser (parallel tube) cases all have a plastic basewad.......does the make of case matter, ballistically?......I do understand the volume of the case may differ and alter the component "fit"..... The claygame data that I have is very patchy often with no pressure data. You want proper pressure data with the recipe otherwise it's just a blind guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted January 1, 2019 Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 43 minutes ago, sitsinhedges said: They're all pretty much PT tube cases now. I would just try and pick one type that works well for you and stick with that for now. Stay with 70mm for simplicity. The claygame data that I have is very patchy often with no pressure data. You want proper pressure data with the recipe otherwise it's just a blind guess. I realise that! The question I was trying to raise was, apart from possible volumatic issues, does it matter ballistically what "brand" of case it is, as long as it is the same in length, construction and composition? I am aware some cases reload better than others, it is part of the learning curve to find out which!........obviously, the newcomer will have to try a few, to find out which ones! I agree..... 70mm, plastic, parallel tube, plastic basewad, six point crimp closure, of one type of case initially, is the way to start..... Whilst some of Clay Games formulas do not contain pressure data, Ian Charlton, who composed most of the C&G data currently on offer, always insisted all his published data was tested and well within pressure safety levels!.....assuming this is true? The data is significantly better than just a blind guess!....the only way to know for sure, if anybody's data is Kosher, is to get your homeloads (which follow someone's else's recipe) batch tested at the proofhouse....it's a leap of faith to believe what anyone tells you...........about anything! Innit? Lol! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted January 1, 2019 Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 5 hours ago, panoma1 said: I realise that! The question I was trying to raise was, apart from possible volumatic issues, does it matter ballistically what "brand" of case it is, as long as it is the same in length, construction and composition? I am aware some cases reload better than others, it is part of the learning curve to find out which!........obviously, the newcomer will have to try a few, to find out which ones! I agree..... 70mm, plastic, parallel tube, plastic basewad, six point crimp closure, of one type of case initially, is the way to start..... Whilst some of Clay Games formulas do not contain pressure data, Ian Charlton, who composed most of the C&G data currently on offer, always insisted all his published data was tested and well within pressure safety levels!.....assuming this is true? The data is significantly better than just a blind guess!....the only way to know for sure, if anybody's data is Kosher, is to get your homeloads (which follow someone's else's recipe) batch tested at the proofhouse....it's a leap of faith to believe what anyone tells you...........about anything! Innit? Lol! I've proof tested some of Charltons 20g recipes and found them to be over pressure by a couple of grains of powder. I understand Claygame have a proof gun so should be selling proper data if at all, esp in this day and age. I always try and find matching data from different sources if unsure but still end up proofing for my own piece of mind and because I find it interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secret-squirrel Posted January 1, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 12 hours ago, figgy said: Did say it don't work out for normal clay loads. If you can get hold of scrap lead and a shot maker then it's worth it. Your wife's 21g carts will be better value loading them. 👍 That is worked out at 21g loads . (Unless I’m being thick ) i can get hold of scrap lead no problem a friend runs a metal recycling yard . I just think it would be too much drama to try and make the actual rig plus my garage is way to full so wouldn’t have anywere safe to do it 🙈 does anybody on here make there own lead? Yea I no you said it and likewise I don’t mind it’s not cheaper it’s no real drama. its was a Xmas present and I will enjoy it while mises is watching Hollyoaks 😂 cheers SS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secret-squirrel Posted January 1, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 Right ok ..... so after reading the last 5 or so comments I’m a little bit boggled ! Think it’s time for this to take a back burner and when the time is right and we’re both free go and spend a few hours with the man who noes ! Cheers SS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted January 1, 2019 Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 You will find it easier to make standard shells as a 21g 12gauge load will likely need quite a fast powder that's harder to source same with the wads. You may even need shorter cases as there isn't so much to fit in there. Ask John at FES he will sort you out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secret-squirrel Posted January 1, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 18 minutes ago, sitsinhedges said: You will find it easier to make standard shells as a 21g 12gauge load will likely need quite a fast powder that's harder to source same with the wads. You may even need shorter cases as there isn't so much to fit in there. Ask John at FES he will sort you out. 👍👍👍👍👍 thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 the reason to try and make standard loads is that there are lots of different versions of the same load really. when i teach, its often a 12/70 28gram lead with my favourite wad. its been made by alot and is pretty much never going to get silly pressures. when i reload my weirdo loads, thats when i have to keep my wits about, as i have and make my own data. find someone local, to help. teaching via the internet is slow, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow white Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 Yes folkestone eng are cheaper.good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 12 hours ago, secret-squirrel said: Right ok ..... so after reading the last 5 or so comments I’m a little bit boggled ! Think it’s time for this to take a back burner and when the time is right and we’re both free go and spend a few hours with the man who noes ! Cheers SS Don't be put off....it can get a bit technical, but initially, if you stick to the 70mm cases you've got and load to a proven formula......as cookoff013 says.....you'll be fine!...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 yeah, dont be put off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secret-squirrel Posted January 2, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 (edited) Hi lads just thought I’d let you all no I Finally got round to getting it all out the box and mounting it on a old cupboard door .I havnt set the crucial bits up yet (because I don’t no how or which ones yet) so iv just fitted the spring insert bit for the primer and resizing ring . first impressions of this ,it seems very well made . yes most of it’s plastic including the base which I assume is were they save money but it all seems very solid (for now) . So this is me , for the next however long it takes I’m going to sit here and punch out all the old primers on roughly 300 cartridges . Unfortunatly this is as far as I can go as I don’t have any components yet other than the cases (soon to be sorted by the PW massive iv had a couple of cracking offers, thanks ) Yes I’m sure most of you are thinking what a waste of time if you can’t actually finish the job , But ....the mises is watching something terrible on t.v and it’s my new toy so I’m going to play with it 👍😂😂😂👍 Thanks every one SS Edited January 2, 2019 by secret-squirrel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hambone Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 (edited) I had a Lee Loadall of someone on here but have not used it yet so following with interest. . There must be a book out there for shotgun reloading like the Lee one for rifle reloading? There is (just done the google) doh. Edited January 2, 2019 by hambone has got time to improve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 The red powder and shot bushings are inserted by unscrewing the two retaining screws on the aluminium front plate and removing the red sliding charge bar! Then when in place.....replace by reversing the removal procedure! The bushings fit into the charge bar in the position indicated on the aluminium front plate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secret-squirrel Posted January 2, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, hambone said: I had a Lee Loadall of someone on here but have not used it yet so following with interest. . There must be a book out there for shotgun reloading like the Lee one for rifle reloading? There is (just done the google) doh. What the book called ? Also I have found the first issue .... so I have just done roughly 75 RC2 sporting absolutely faultless ..... first of these Winchester silver and turns out the 2nd position we’re it removes the “resizing ring” isn’t deep enough to actually get it back off ... bad description here s some pics . Basically stick to “normal size” brass ... 👍👍 Pictures were too big 🙈 ... so basically it can only push the resizing ring back to here ... I’m pretty sure the pictures explain better ..... so not quite far enough to use these Winchester’s (the “brass” is very long) oh well lesson learnt SS Edited January 2, 2019 by secret-squirrel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hambone Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 Its a Lyman book but I cant recommend it as I haven't got it. www.shotgunreloading.co.uk/reloading-manuals.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biketestace Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 Bin them, the mec supersizer that i use wont resize the taller brass either ! ( it isnt brass) 😀 Iv found the book 😲 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secret-squirrel Posted January 2, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 8 minutes ago, biketestace said: Bin them, the mec supersizer that i use wont resize the taller brass either ! ( it isnt brass) 😀 Iv found the book 😲 😂😂 funny colour brass eh 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biketestace Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 Years ago it was brass, now days its plated steel 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hambone Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 Or funny colour book 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 Use shorter brass. Another lesson learned lol. Of any cartridge Winchesters are most likely to be compression formed so check they have a deperate base wad inside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hambone Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 The one on the right is what I found on line Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave at kelton Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 Have a look at Folkestone Engineering site as well. They are very helpful and straight as they come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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