Thames Valley - Medical Form Required

[p@cman]

Just received an alert ping through from TVP regarding a "requirement" to submit a Medical Form along with any licence application or renewal;

 

Information notice - Changes to Medical Information   You are now required to provide medical information verified by a GP for all firearm and shotgun applications - this includes renewals. This applies to any application, whether declaring a medical condition or not.   The change is being implemented to enable the Police to make informed decisions which will protect both the shooting community and the wider public. The change will mean a consistent and fair process for all applicants, and will assist in improving application processing times. The fact you have a condition may not necessarily mean your application is refused. However, a false declaration could result in your prosecution, or your application being refused, or your existing license being revoked and your firearms or shotguns being seized.   This change will affect any application submitted from 1st August 2019. FAQs   When will this new medical process start?   The introduction of a pre application medical screening will come into effect on 1st August 2019.   What does this mean for you, the applicant?   On applying for the grant or renewal of a firearm/shot gun/RFD application (online or paper) all applicants will be required to submit with their application a completed GP pro forma that has been agreed between Thames Valley Police and the Berkshire, Buckinghamshire & Oxfordshire Local Medical Committees (LMCs). This pro forma can be found on the Thames Valley Police website or can be obtained direct from your GP.   Who contacts my GP?   Applicants will be responsible for contacting their GP for this information.   What happens if I do not submit the pre medical screening information?   Applications received without the applicant’s medical information (GP pro forma) will be returned to the applicant with a request to submit this information. If the application is received again without this supporting documentation the application may be refused.   Why are Thames Valley Police implementing this change in policy?   The Firearms Act 1968 (as amended) and Home Office Guidance states that before granting or renewing a firearm/shot gun certificate the Chief Officer of Police needs to be satisfied that applicants can be permitted to have the firearm(s)/shot guns/ammunition without danger to the public safety or to the peace. Details that are required in order to make an informed decision on an applicant’s suitability, includes information relating to their medical history.   The current medical process in place may leave a substantial gap in the available information and intelligence assessed at the point of grant or renewal. Medical evidence is pivotal to police decision making.     The introduction of a pre application medical screening will ensure that the firearms licensing department has all the relevant available information as to the suitability of the applicant prior to grant or renewal. This will help to mitigate risk as far as reasonably practicable. This single process will also make the process more streamlined and quicker for applicants, as the police will no longer have to contact the GP and await a reply.   Why is Thames Valley Police not complying with Home Office Guidance on this matter?   Whilst Home Office Guidance is intended to assist with consistency of practice between forces it is Chief Officers who are ultimately responsible for the administration of firearms licensing in their force area. Home Office Guidance acknowledges this and understands that it may be necessary for forces to depart from the guidance when each case is assessed on its merits and the circumstances justify such a course of action. Home Office Guidance also has no statutory footing and our legal advice is that if harm was done as a result of the police issuing a certificate the responsibility for failing to properly manage the risk, would from a legal perspective, fall to the police.   Will there be a fee from my GP?   Guidance from the BMA and LMC is very clear that this type of work falls outside of the NHS remit and as such surgeries will request a fee from the applicant.

Message Sent By Zoe Powderly (Police, Manager, Firearms Licensing )

 

[JJsDad]

There has already quite a few comments on this subject under the post: `Rules for the many, not the few`.

A number of forces have already adopted this policy, and it is evident that others will follow suit. Where you are registered with an NHS practice who will provide the required documentation, no problem, other than the cost. However, if the practice refuses to reply to the Police or provide a letter you can find yourself trapped between a rock & a hard place. 

 

[Scully]

Round and round we go.....for how many years now? 🙂

[Rewulf]

This is slightly different from the October 2018 accompanying doctors letter issue.

This one requires the information to be supplied AT application/renewal, without it, your ticket will not be put into the system for process at all.
Comes into effect in Nottingham in July.

From what I can gather, Notts licencing is already in chaos from staff shortages and confusion over the first doctors letter issue.
Theyve had my shotgun renewal for over 3 months, and Im being given an extension for another 2 months, because they simply cant cope.

[Flyboy1950]

Seems like the onus is now on the applicant to approach their GP in order to get this new form filled out, (taking the responsibility away from Police). Interesting that the Police had already been in touch and in agreement with the Local Medical Committee, but no fee has been agreed?  Guess the GP can charge what he/she likes, so no further forward.

Once again I challenge the Shooting Associations to collectively take on this issue on behalf of shooters. They obviously can work jointly together as has been demonstrated by the furore over the General Licences. This is not a new problem and they should have been challenging this by now.

FB

[Rewulf]

4 minutes ago, Flyboy1950 said:

Seems like the onus is now on the applicant to approach their GP in order to get this new form filled out, (taking the responsibility away from Police). Interesting that the Police had already been in touch and in agreement with the Local Medical Committee, but no fee has been agreed?  Guess the GP can charge what he/she likes, so no further forward.

Correct.

[JJsDad]

1 hour ago, p@cman said:

Home Office Guidance also has no statutory footing and our legal advice is that if harm was done as a result of the police issuing a certificate the responsibility for failing to properly manage the risk, would from a legal perspective, fall to the police.

This seems to suggest that where the Police have a letter or documentation from a GP indicating that the applicant does not suffer from any ailment that is likely to bar him from having a firearm; where a licence was then issued and a subsequent offence was committed, the Police would then lay the blame at the GPs door. Little wonder that some GPs refuse to provide letters or respond to Police requests.

[oldypigeonpopper]

hello, shotgun or FAC or both??  1st application ??

Edited June 21, 2019 by oldypigeonpopper

[Rewulf]

24 minutes ago, JJsDad said:

Little wonder that some GPs refuse to provide letters or respond to Police requests.

This.

I went through half of the doctors in my catchment area before I found one that would use the new form.(I have no medical issues)
And this before its even rolled out properly.

Without doubt, this is going to thin the ranks of legal firearms holders.
Question is , was this the intention from the start

1 minute ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

hello, shotgun or FAC or both??  1st application ??

All. renewals and first app.

[Flyboy1950]

As Rewolf has pointed out,

"On applying for the grant or renewal of a firearm/shot gun/RFD application (online or paper) all applicants will be required to submit with their application a completed GP pro forma that has been agreed between Thames Valley Police and the Berkshire, Buckinghamshire & Oxfordshire Local Medical Committees (LMCs). This pro forma can be found on the Thames Valley Police website or can be obtained direct from your GP"

FB

 

 

[martinj]

The form instructs the Dr. to check the patients history for :

Acute stress reaction as a result of trauma, Suicidal thoughts or self harm, Dementia, Mania, Bipolar- psychotic illness, Personality Disorder, Severe neurological impairment, Alcohol or Drug abuse, terminal illness.

Pretty fair I guess

[mossy835]

this has been going on  for to long, the orgs should have had this sorted out long ago,the police there should not get away with it.

[Scully]

2 hours ago, martinj said:

The form instructs the Dr. to check the patients history for :

Acute stress reaction as a result of trauma, Suicidal thoughts or self harm, Dementia, Mania, Bipolar- psychotic illness, Personality Disorder, Severe neurological impairment, Alcohol or Drug abuse, terminal illness.

Pretty fair I guess

How do you check for a history of terminal illness? 

[Rewulf]

On 21/06/2019 at 19:22, Scully said:

How do you check for a history of terminal illness? 

I would have thought it would apply to a condition where the patient is not expected to recover, cancer, motor neurone ect, where there is a chance of said licence holder, using his firearm to 'hasten' his passing ?

[oldypigeonpopper]

On 21/06/2019 at 15:30, oldypigeonpopper said:

hello, shotgun or FAC or both??  1st application ??

hello, this is the new changes with TVP, my advice if you want either licence is to get one sorted, i had no problem with my GP, good luck

[wymberley]

1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

I would have thought it would apply to a condition where the patient is not expected to recover, cancer, motor neurone ect, where there is a chance of said licence holder, using his firearm to 'hasten' his passing ?

In addition to the examples given, by definition this would include old age so there's a few of us on here who could be in bother.

[Rewulf]

4 minutes ago, wymberley said:

In addition to the examples given, by definition this would include old age so there's a few of us on here who could be in bother.

Point taken, but I dont think thats what it implied 😄

Having said that, some 20,000 people a year in the US , 'hasten' their demise via firearm, I wonder what the UK figures are ?

[Scully]

3 hours ago, Rewulf said:

I would have thought it would apply to a condition where the patient is not expected to recover, cancer, motor neurone ect, where there is a chance of said licence holder, using his firearm to 'hasten' his passing ?

It was meant tongue in cheek to be honest, but again, it’s legislation based on what someone ‘might ‘ do, which is an awful slippery slope. 

[Rewulf]

1 minute ago, Scully said:

It was meant tongue in cheek to be honest, but again, it’s legislation based on what someone ‘might ‘ do, which is an awful slippery slope. 

Agreed.