Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Ultrastu

Very long shot .

Recommended Posts

5 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

You believe youre qualified to do that ?

 

I dont believe they were mentioned ?

 

No doubt every projectile you fire goes exactly where you intended to ?

So you're backing up the OP and questioning others re their abilities,,,, without any back up to your words ? 

Now I'm not asking you to tell us about yourself and your shooting, as I'm not interested. This thread and my replies are aimed at the OP.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, JKD said:

I will say though, that yes, I've missed and injured quarry, but don't feel the need to let the world know about it

You just did Im afraid .

 

4 minutes ago, ClemFandango said:

in my opinion it is unjustifiable.

So , if in doubt, no shot ?
You would never take any shot if that was the case.

 

5 minutes ago, ClemFandango said:

I hope that anyone reading this thread considering taking up rifle shooting or shooting of any sort sees the controversy it has created and that makes them think twice about taking the same chances. If that happens then some good has come from Stu's post.

Not really, they will just not tell anyone about it when they miss/wound, just like most other people, just some are more quick to judge others before looking at their own failings.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

You just did Im afraid .

 

So , if in doubt, no shot ?
You would never take any shot if that was the case.

 

Not really, they will just not tell anyone about it when they miss/wound, just like most other people, just some are more quick to judge others before looking at their own failings.

YES! If you are relying on luck to make a humane kill then you should never take the shot! 

Much less you shouldn't post and brag about it on social media and expect that everyone who reads about your actions will agree with them. 

People make mistakes of course that is true. Ultrastu says that he knew he was relying on luck and yet continued to take the shot anyway. He didn't pass up the shot or even try to get closer he just disregarded the fact that he wasn't sure of his ability to kill the rabbit cleanly and took the shot anyway. In your opinion that's fine. It's not in mine.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Ultrastu said:

Is a 45 yd shot on a rabbit with a sub 12 .177 pcp an idiotic shot ? 

No ? 

Well 20 yrs ago with a underleaver springer you would have been called an idiot .as they would have said you cant take shots beyond 30 yds .

20 years before that and some one taking a 30 yd shot would have been equally called an idiot. As old bsa cadets would have only been accurate /powerful enough to around 15 / 20 yds. What your  spectacularly failing to grasp is the advancements in airgun technology and the consequent ability of them to go beyond that which we previously thought possible .

Go get your self a high power fx .see for your self .and then come back to me with more credibility behind your opinions.

Over and out .

👍

I don't get this 9 x 10 thang, what does that mean ? Do some people really expect us to believe that they only take shots that they are 90% certain will result in a KILL ? Pull the udder one coz I'm not falling for that bull.

Lets analyse this, if the statement is true then you have readily admitted to accepting a 10% chance of potentially wounding the creature in which case you're just as guilty as anyone who happens to be more skilled, knowledgable and better equipped and takes the same risk ratio but at twice your accepted (lets call it 35 yards) range, i.e, 70 yards ! 

If the statement is just a throw away comment which is simply meant to summarise : "I'm one conscientious dude who cannot bear to cause suffering" then I'm afraid you're already in the wrong sphere of fieldsports activity - you WILL cause suffering and wounding regardless of how skilful you personally are. 

I'm fairly well known for mocking silly talk of "regler" 90 yard pheasants with shot guns because I understand basic shot gun ballistics, I USED to accept that 40-70 yards was the right sort of range for sub as well as FAC level air guns but you have to always be prepared to have your eyes opened and assumptions shattered when equipment (not just guns but scopes and in particular ammo) moves on, was Stu's shot risky (above the norm) , yes he admitted it himself, did he take it with the right equipment, knowledge and skill, also yes. 

I'm game if anyone wants to invite me out and have me watch while they take 90% certain KILL shots 9 x 10., won't happen under actual field conditions, most definitely won't happen if you shoot off hand when shots are presented as you walk around, will only happen from a static rested position preferably at a fixed range. 

One day someone will invent a shot shell that will hold a 60% pattern at 100 yards (don't forget it will also need a Sabot type afterburner to boost the airborn pellets half way through their flight so the kinetic energy is maintained) ;) and hitting (and killing) game will become doable at twice the kind of ranges we're used to today. BUT rest assured if that day comes it won't be B/A class shots who will be doin it regler, it will be people with monumental skill and judgement, not those with delusions of grandeur taking credit for random strikes. 

Edited by Hamster

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, ClemFandango said:

UltraStu is doing exactly that though. 

Taking credit for a random strike. 

You need to watch some Youtube footage of skilled people with FX guns head shooting squirrels at well over 100 yards, things are a changing.

It's like when people used to poo poo all the reports of massive bags of pigeon being shot all over the country, "pity there's never any pictures" was the cry...............until social media changed our assumptions when those people started to post pictures.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, ClemFandango said:

UltraStu is doing exactly that though. 

Taking credit for a random strike. 

A random strike is when you poke your gun in the general direction , guess the range and holdover, and fire 'hoping' you hit the target.

Stu has practiced at the range, checked the drop on a ballistic calculator, calculated wind and aimpoint, and killed the target , the only random element was the wind, which messed up the point of impact.
No doubt you never get the wind wrong , or just dont shoot when theres wind around ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Hamster said:

You need to watch some Youtube footage of skilled people with FX guns head shooting squirrels at well over 100 yards, things are a changing.

It's like when people used to poo poo all the reports of massive bags of pigeon being shot all over the country, "pity there's never any pictures" was the cry...............until social media changed our assumptions when those people started to post pictures.

 

I don't need to watch anything.

Just now, Rewulf said:

A random strike is when you poke your gun in the general direction , guess the range and holdover, and fire 'hoping' you hit the target.

Stu has practiced at the range, checked the drop on a ballistic calculator, calculated wind and aimpoint, and killed the target , the only random element was the wind, which messed up the point of impact.
No doubt you never get the wind wrong , or just dont shoot when theres wind around ?

He was incapable of correctly judging and compensating for the wind at that range. He knew he was relying on luck and "Hoped" he would hit the target.

He missed. 

His pellet randomly struck the rabbit in an area that luckily proved fatal. 

the place the pellet struck the rabbit and the place Stu anticipated it would strike the rabbit was far from a skillful calculated shot. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I dont post about every shot i make .

That would be very boring , for all .

I post when i feel there is value and will generate intrest  .this thread has certainly done that .it was bound to bring out the holier than thou characters. For it was a long shot by most people standards (including my own ) but think in 15 years time when 200 yd shots by airguns are capable and 150 yds are the norm and 100 is boringly easy will you still criticise  this shot .? 

Your either keeping up or being left behind .

Just now, ClemFandango said:

don't need to be a perfect shot to know that if you know you have a low chance of accomplishing a shot at live quarry and are relying purely on luck then the decision to take that shot is in error. 

I totally agree .

But What is a chance that is too low though ? For who and under what circumstances?.

For some any thing less than 100 % is unacceptable,(thats a day dream as we all know ) so how low can we go ? 

And who is to say what that limit should be .certainly not those who criticise from a position of unaproachable safety .

I will continue  to enjoy my shooting and posting images and stories of a few of them . (The more interesting ones ) and if you feel that i have managed to do what you cant /wont do .then try and keep the negative comments on hold .i dont need the "backslapping high fives either. " 

This is a shooting forum for people who shoot . (Thats what i thought anyway ) .

Cheers 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, ClemFandango said:

I don't need to watch anything.

 

 

😂 😂 Owkkaaaay, in that case at least google cognitive dissonance. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, ClemFandango said:

the place the pellet struck the rabbit and the place Stu anticipated it would strike the rabbit was far from a skillful calculated shot.

I have heard tell that sometimes a line of  men with overpriced shotguns send 2x300 pellets at birds flying above them , and sometimes ..they dont hit them 😲

You would never do anything like this surely ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Stu. You posted your shot. You explained that you were lucky to have killed the rabbit. Later on you said you thought you only had a 50% chance of hitting the target. 

You are right this is a shooting forum and your post has generated a lot of discussion about shooting. Despite criticism from myself and others you have maintained a civil discussion and that is what makes forums great. 

I don't agree with what you did. In my opinion you have low standards of what is an acceptable shot to take at live quarry.

You and others disagree obviously, some people agree with me. That's the way it works. It's the love of shooting that makes our opinions so strong and long may it continue. 

 

8 minutes ago, Hamster said:

😂 😂 Owkkaaaay, in that case at least google cognitive dissonance. 

argh. Apologies. I started to reply to your post and then realised that in answering the one posted afterwards I was repeating myself. I thought I had deleted all of what I had written including that quote. 

Edited by ClemFandango

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

I will say though, that yes, I've missed and injured quarry, but don't feel the need to let the world know about it

You just did Im afraid .

Yes I did, but not in any detail.

Well, the T word was mentioned, in a desperate manner to justify things, so,,,, its been emotional,,,, got much better things to do than discuss someone's failings.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

I have heard tell that sometimes a line of  men with overpriced shotguns send 2x300 pellets at birds flying above them , and sometimes ..they dont hit them 😲

You would never do anything like this surely ?

No as a matter of fact I don't.

Not really relevant though. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, ClemFandango said:

No as a matter of fact I don't.

Not really relevant though. 

Its very relevant, they know that every shot wont count, birds will be wounded ect.
In your opinion everyone who game shoots then , should get the same 'judgment' ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Rewulf said:

Its very relevant, they know that every shot wont count, birds will be wounded ect.
In your opinion everyone who game shoots then , should get the same 'judgment' ?

Yes of course. Why not? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, JKD said:

Yes I did, but not in any detail.

Well, the T word was mentioned, in a desperate manner to justify things, so,,,, its been emotional,,,, got much better things to do than discuss someone's failings.

Much better than discussing your own.

1 minute ago, ClemFandango said:

Yes of course. Why not? 

🙊👩🙈

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Rewulf said:

Much better than discussing your own.

That's not the subject is it ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, JKD said:

That's not the subject is it ?

 

1 minute ago, ClemFandango said:

Monkey person monkey? 

You've lost me I'm afraid. 

Getting pointless now, but Ill say this.

If Im going to criticise someone, I make damn sure Im not guilty of the thing Im criticising them for.
This is known as being a hypocrite, and is one of the worst things to be accused of in my opinion.
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Rewulf said:

 

Getting pointless now, but Ill say this.

If Im going to criticise someone, I make damn sure Im not guilty of the thing Im criticising them for.
This is known as being a hypocrite, and is one of the worst things to be accused of in my opinion.
 

No one here is guilty of hypocrisy but I see the point you are making. 

If you agree with Ultrastu and are comfortable with his standards then great. Plenty of other people aren't. 

I am comfortable with what I do but there are many people who think I am the scum of the earth for doing it. I can justify my actions to myself and I continue. 

You are right, this is getting a bit pointless and I will make this my final post on the subject.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You notice .how i havent gone away or crumbled under pressure ? 

You see im defending mine (and yours also ) right to shoot and to make our own judgements about the ethics of a shot .

What your doing is FORCING your opinion on others and would have me banned for ..... something .taking my right away as an individual to make the correct desision .Its a " government  knows best "idealogy and they will dictate to you what your allowed to do .

Its the state of the world (especially in europe ) at the moment. And it leads to a very sad and dangerous  place .

Please think for a moment about what ive said its important for all shooters.and us all in general . 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, ClemFandango said:

 

argh. Apologies. I started to reply to your post and then realised that in answering the one posted afterwards I was repeating myself. I thought I had deleted all of what I had written including that quote. 

👍

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As I see it Ultrastu has made a decision based on his ability and experience and awareness of what he is cabable of shooting, the distance is irrelevant as we all do the same when shooting no matter how far. At some point each and every one of us has fired at a live target and failed to kill it instantly but hopefully despatched very quickly afterwards. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Been thinking on this since posting the other day. A lot of good points made on both sides of the fence; difficult to say whether they are acknowledged or not. I have probably moved my position slightly since reading all the fors and againsts. So as every day is a school day, the thread has proved useful. So, as far as I can see (following drivel more for my benefit and anyone who has the time to read it):

A shot was taken to land intended to land in the kill zone. To sub 12 shooters that would be roughly a 10p piece, a .25 50fpe changes that somewhat. Saying the shot was a miss or fail as Stu didn't hit exactly where he intended is similar to aiming for the centre of the 10p piece and hitting the lower left portion then calling that a fail. Practice is key. We take on live quarry when we feel we can reasonably make the shot whether that is a 10p circle at 30yds with <12 fpe or a  larger area at 150yds with 50fpe. I think Stu was reasonably happy with the shot as he had practiced and knew the range. This left wind to judge; more range= more difficult but is helped with a bigger kill zone to play with. OK Stu misjudged the wind but still landed a shot in the zone using up all of his leeway. This can happen with any shot taken in the wind.

Once the pellet is in the air there is nothing more to be done. For a .22 at <12fpe, travel time is around the 0.2 seconds mark for usual airgun distances and a bit less for .177. For a 50fpe .25 at 150yds that time is getting on for a little under a second. That is a long time for a rabbit to stay still for which starts to put the shot into gambling territory. Where you draw the line on how much of a gamble you take is a very personal one. Could I criticize Stu for taking the shot? Probably not as I will never know the full facts. Would I take the shot myself after practicing at the same range? No.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...