Rewulf Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 Good posts 12 g Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 Just so long as they are your views, too? 1 hour ago, 12gauge82 said: If that is the case, it is almost beside the point, the issue is, the government held the referendum, thinking they could manipulate the electorate to vote remain and were confident that was the result they would get, they had no intention of ever honouring a leave vote and obviously never thought it could happen. They've then tried to move the goal posts and muddy the waters by patronising leave supporters telling them they didn't know what they voted for, some MPs trying to block brexit all together and some trying to "deliver" a watered down version of remain under a different name, like Mays "deal", which most leavers and remainers believe is the worst of both worlds. It was blatantly obvious what was voted for, the reality is those in power don't want to deliver it, whether its because it'll cause huge economic damage or because politicians are inept and corrupt liers is for each of us to individually decide and vote accordingly at the next GE. The point is, if we do not truly leave the EU, it means each and every one of us, regardless of whether you believe staying or leaving the EU makes better economic sense, no longer lives in a free and democratic society, try and put a price on that, as master card used to say, "some things in life are priceless" Absolutely correct! Parliament should be the servants of the people, not the other way around! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 1 hour ago, oowee said: Why would they want to do that? Surely its a case that both sides are trying to deliver a compromise solution, each wanting to blame the other for failure. The failure is each party's factions having strongly differing view points, which result in neither side being clear on what they are prepared to agree on? It's reasonable to see a new leader of the con's being in exactly the same position as May. They may take a firmer Brexit stance but are then likely to loose support from the rest of the party and at the same time bring even less cross party support. Perhaps a more likely position than a compromise, which has eluded parliament to date, is that the clock gets run down again and the EU push us to decide. Not agreeing a further extension we would be forced to rescind or go for broke. Parliament does not want to select no deal so it's logical that they vote to rescind. They won't want to make that decision either so a vote back to the people no deal brexit or stay in. ? Is it not the case that part of the leave discussion was that a deal could be reached with the EU easily as it was in their interest as much if not more so than our own? In which case it's reasonable to assume that some leave voters expected a deal to be available. Even Farage and the UkIP Leaders are saying after a no deal Brexit we will then be in a position to get a deal. If that is true surely we can get a deal in advance without having to go through the uncertainty of no deal fall out? But the deal we would get negotiating from outside would be considerably better than the one offered at the moment by the EU......you should always negotiate from a position of strength, not weakness! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 Just now, pinfireman said: But the deal we would get negotiating from outside would be considerably better than the one offered at the moment by the EU......you should always negotiate from a position of strength, not weakness! I understood we were in a position of strength. If not how do we get there with the current Government. Do you think a GE would improve on what we have? I would expect it to reduce the power in parliament through further dilution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 48 minutes ago, oowee said: Given the current impasse. How can a no deal Brexit be delivered? Neither party will vote for it. A General election is likely to result in even greater division of power so I am guessing the parties will not want to go down that route if they can avoid it. Which leaves the EU to push us into a decision. Remind me as I am not clear on this. If no decision is taken can we just fall out with no deal or was that option taken away from parliament previously. A General Election result may surprise you, ...politicians are all about power, and if they think that may be taken from them, then their so-called principles will disappear like snow on a hot day! I doubt that there are more than 50 MPs whose principles would make them walk away from the Westminster trough! 46 minutes ago, Newbie to this said: Two great posts. The problem with the treaty that May has negotiated is it's been negotiated by people who don't want to leave. One of which has asked if he can become a Belgian citizen if it is successful because he doesn't think it will be welcomed by the British public. Undeniable proof that the negotiations were poor. How can you negotiate something which you don't believe in, it's been a stich up from the start. Correct! 6 minutes ago, oowee said: I understood we were in a position of strength. If not how do we get there with the current Government. Do you think a GE would improve on what we have? I would expect it to reduce the power in parliament through further dilution. Reducing Parliament,s power might not be a bad thing.....it would focus their minds! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 1 hour ago, 12gauge82 said: If that is the case, it is almost beside the point, the issue is, the government held the referendum, thinking they could manipulate the electorate to vote remain and were confident that was the result they would get, they had no intention of ever honouring a leave vote and obviously never thought it could happen. They've then tried to move the goal posts and muddy the waters by patronising leave supporters telling them they didn't know what they voted for, some MPs trying to block brexit all together and some trying to "deliver" a watered down version of remain under a different name, like Mays "deal", which most leavers and remainers believe is the worst of both worlds. It was blatantly obvious what was voted for, the reality is those in power don't want to deliver it, whether its because it'll cause huge economic damage or because politicians are inept and corrupt liers is for each of us to individually decide and vote accordingly at the next GE. The point is, if we do not truly leave the EU, it means each and every one of us, regardless of whether you believe staying or leaving the EU makes better economic sense, no longer lives in a free and democratic society, try and put a price on that, as master card used to say, "some things in life are priceless" This. Good post. 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 (edited) The final YouGov/Times poll before the EU elections has the Brexit Party miles out ahead on 37%, almost double the closest challengers in the form of the Lib Dems. On current polling this would make them the largest single party in the entire European Parliament. Labour have slumped to a poor third and are looking nervously over their shoulders at the Greens. The Tories’ misery continues as they fall further to 7%, this was before May’s offer of a second referendum vote yesterday… Source: Guido Fawkes Turnout might be the only fly in the ointment! Edited May 22, 2019 by pinfireman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 11 minutes ago, pinfireman said: A General Election result may surprise you, ...politicians are all about power, and if they think that may be taken from them, then their so-called principles will disappear like snow on a hot day! I doubt that there are more than 50 MPs whose principles would make them walk away from the Westminster trough! Correct! Reducing Parliament,s power might not be a bad thing.....it would focus their minds! I am sure we would all be surprised by the result. I understand it's about power but how do the parties get it. The Brexit party vote this Thursday surely makes it more likely that we are stuck with the current incumbents even longer? If we went for a GE it's likely, very weak Lab and Cons a strengthened Lib dem and a smattering of other parties with a few Brexit types thrown in? Ie worse than we have now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 (edited) No one will really understand politics until they understand that politicians are not trying to solve our problems. They are trying to solve their own problems - of which getting elected, and re-elected are number one, and number two ! Whatever is number three is far, far behind! Thomas Sowell. 6 minutes ago, oowee said: I am sure we would all be surprised by the result. I understand it's about power but how do the parties get it. The Brexit party vote this Thursday surely makes it more likely that we are stuck with the current incumbents even longer? If we went for a GE it's likely, very weak Lab and Cons a strengthened Lib dem and a smattering of other parties with a few Brexit types thrown in? Ie worse than we have now? Maybe..... but unable to govern properly, showing the electorate that the old party system is no longer fit for purpose! And finally waking up to the fact that we, the people, hold the real power, and do so by electing politicians to work for us ! Not for themselves, or Soros etc.... A gottle of geer! Edited May 22, 2019 by pinfireman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 If Brexiteers needed any more proof that the senior echelons of the civil service are fanatically pro-Remain, former Cabinet Secretary Gus O’Donnell was on hand to provide it this morning in The Times with a gushing endorsement of the Lib Dems. O’Donnell says it’s “deeply disappointing and very annoying” that the split Remain vote could lead to the Brexit Party doing “extremely well”, he says he will be voting Lib Dem and “urges all those who support Remain to do the same”. Telling, but hardly surprising, that the UK’s most senior civil servant under three successive Prime Ministers is coming out with such a full-throated endorsement of Remain… Andrew Cooper ✔@AndrewCooper__ I have come to the same conclusion as Michael Heseltine, for exactly the same reasons - and will be voting @LibDems in Thursday’s European Parliament elections. 12:07 AM - May 22, 2019 David Cameron’s hapless former Downing Street head of strategy and embittered Remainer Andrew Cooper has also announced that he’s backing the Lib Dems. Cooper did sit for the Tories in the Lords, he’s now joined Heseltine on the naughty step with the whip suspended. With him on board the Lib Dems are guaranteed electoral success…....Doh!!! Source : Guido Fawkes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 Is it a surprise that those in the know, and experience of how this stuff works have such a view? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 Yes it is a shock. As a Civil Servant (or former Civil Servant), he shouldn't be political. As for "in the know" and experience - just what does he know or have experience of? The last three Prime Ministers have been almost universally slated and just who was at their side - good old Gus. oowee - any chance of you telling us which benefits need amending to stop abuse? I ask, knowing that you probably know little or nothing about the benefits system and will avoid answering. Bit of a trait with the Remain bunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 1 hour ago, oowee said: Is it a surprise that those in the know, and experience of how this stuff works have such a view? Whatever happens, hopefully we will one day get a government that does NOT reward Civil Servants, failed politicians, and party donors with an enoblement into the House of Lords! They have been well paid, usually gone on lots of jollies....if you want to give them a memento, make it the same as the one you give a school crossing lady! O,Donnell was useless! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 Word on the 'street' is May will announce her resignation tonight. I sort of feel a bit sorry for her, despite her incompetence, but she really has to go. Hopefully her replacement will steer the ship with a better hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 28 minutes ago, Rewulf said: Word on the 'street' is May will announce her resignation tonight. I sort of feel a bit sorry for her, despite her incompetence, but she really has to go. Hopefully her replacement will steer the ship with a better hand. It HAS to happen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 49 minutes ago, Rewulf said: Word on the 'street' is May will announce her resignation tonight. I sort of feel a bit sorry for her, despite her incompetence, but she really has to go. Hopefully her replacement will steer the ship with a better hand. she is stuck in there "like an alabama tick"................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 3 minutes ago, ditchman said: she is stuck in there "like an alabama tick"................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 hahhhahhahhaaaa.................you remembered then.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 1 minute ago, ditchman said: hahhhahhahhaaaa.................you remembered then.. How could I forget Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 A classy, ground-breaking film, with a host of names - Arnie, Jesse, Carl Weathers, Bill Duke and the excellent Sonny Landham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 Guido’s campaign for transparency over big-spending anti-Brexit campaign ‘Led By Donkeys’ has paid off. The Electoral Commission now are reporting details of who the mysterious campaign are – who have raised almost half a million pounds to fight Brexit in the last few months. Guido can now unm-***-k the donkeys. You may spot a pattern… James Sadri (Secretary): Sadri is the former ‘Head of Mobilisation’ at Greenpeace, he’s led numerous Greenpeace digital campaigns over the years including their ‘VW Dark Side’ and ‘Save the Arctic’ campaigns and previously worked for the BBC and the UN. Mysteriously, his Twitter, Instagram and LinkedIn accounts all appear to have been recently deactivated, although the internet never forgets… Ben Stewart: Stewart is Head of Speacial [sic] Projects at Greenpeace and was previously their Head of Campaign Communications and was one of six activists acquitted over causing £30,000 of criminal damage to a power station in 2008.His Twitter account has also been recently deleted… Oliver Knowles: Knowles is a… Greenpeace International Oceans Campaigner and their Global Tuna Campaign Leader, his LinkedIn described him as a Senior Advisor/Strategist although it has also recently disappeared. However, his Twitter account is still active and busy retweeting Led By Donkeys… Will Rose: Rose is a photographer for (you’ve guessed it) Greenpeace, he’s taken photographs all over the world for Greenpeace campaigns before turning his attention closer to home. No social media to speak of but he’s got plenty of nice photo galleries… Lefty environmentalists are famously not very good with money, nonetheless Guido looks forward to them declaring how they’ve managed to buy over £230,000 worth of advertising for less than £159,750. Why have they been so keen to go dark on social media and hidden their Greenpeace connection? Guido takes his hat off to them, they’ve come up with an original, eye-catching campaign, even if it hasn’t convinced the Guardian. It doesn’t matter how clever the campaign is, they’ve still got to play by the rules… What,s the betting the Electoral Commission do absolutely nothing about this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 (edited) Despite Guido presenting them with compelling evidence that anti-Brexit billboard campaign ‘Led By Donkeys’ are in breach of EU election spending limits, the Electoral Commission tell Guido that they are simply “monitoring the activities” of Led By Donkeys. They add that Led By Donkeys are “fully aware” that they will have to register if they spend more than £20,000 in England, or £10,000 in any other part of the UK. According to their own figures they’ve already spent over £230,000… Since the Electoral Commission haven’t found the time in between staging Brexit Party stunts to open their investigation so far, Guido thought he would help them out with their inquiries. Here’s what we know so far: Led By Donkeys (LBD) have crowdfunded over £438,000 to support their anti-Brexit campaign. The spending limit for Non-Party Campaigns (in England) is £159,750 – if they’re registered with the Electoral Commission. LBD do not appear on the register with the Electoral Commission. LBD have catalogued over 230 anti-Brexit billboards they’ve put up in England alone. LBD themselves estimate the cost at £1,000 each. The Electoral Commission’s guidance says that activity counts as regulated campaign spending if it is both aimed at the public (“the public test”) and is intended to influence voters to vote for or against particular parties or candidates (“the purpose test”). Guido has analysed every billboard put up by LBD and found that over 200 (205) directly target politicians from just two parties: the Conservatives and the Brexit Party. Just 8 target politicians from any other party – over 96% are targeted at two specific parties. LBD’s own stated aim is “showing our fellow citizens that this Brexit failure was founded on lies and hypocrisy”. LBD have recently started producing even more sophisticated adverts directly mimicking the Brexit Party’s branding. They’ve also created an entire fake website for the Brexit Party which features on their posters. Design costs, staff travel, website design and hosting all also count as regulated spending. Here’s what we don’t know: Who are Led By Donkeys? They’re completely anonymous, their crowdfunder is anonymous, their fake website is registered through a third party. Why are they not registered with the Electoral Commission? They’ve clearly spent over £20,000 which is the limit for registration. If they want to play a big part in an election the public has a right to know who they are. How have they managed to buy over £230,000 worth of political advertising – according to their own figures – without breaching the spending limit of £159,750 in England for Non-Party Campaigners? And what’s happening to the remaining £279,000 from their crowdfunder? Have their donations even come from permitted UK donors? Until they register, we just don’t know. Led By Donkeys probably think they’ve been clever enough to get around the rules by not sticking ‘VOTE LIB DEM/CHANGE UK’ on their billboards. As the Electoral Commission’s own guidelines make clear, their hundreds of billboards still clearly qualify as regulated campaign spending. Clever political adverts are still political adverts. At least the Electoral Commission can proceed with their investigation much more quickly now we’ve done their work for them… UPDATE: Following Guido’s campaign for transparency, Led By Donkeys have now registered with the Electoral Commission. It turns out they are all Greenpeace activists… SOURCE: GUIDO FAWKES And people are still being lead to believe it,s The Brexit Party who are being devious....It would appear that the majority of those opposing The Brexit Party have decided that the only way they can beat them is to engage in a major smear campaign, using very dodgy financing tactics! They must be running very scared of Farage! Edited May 22, 2019 by pinfireman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 SHOCKING! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 Facebook’s ad library has revealed that Change UK have spent £88,000 over the course of the last week on almost 500 micro-targeted ad campaigns. That’s four times the spend of the Brexit Party, who have only posted 70 ad campaigns. The Brexit Party have spent less than Change UK, the Lib Dems, and the Labour Party. Probably a good idea to proof read those adverts, this one looks like the Tiggers are campaigning against the SNP… On top of that the European Parliament has spent £70,000. One for the data conspiracy theorists… On top of that the European Parliament has spent £70,000. One for the data conspiracy theorists… Source: Guido Fawkes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 Change certainly know how to WASTE money! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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