Heavier pellets

[stuartyboy]

My S410 turns out about 10.7 ft ib with 16 grain Air Arms Field pellets. 

I recently seen some really heavy 25 grain pellets. Anyone take a guess at what the ft ib would be approximately with them? Wouldn't want to risk going over the legal limit.

[Ultrastu]

Yes .probably  around 10.1 fpe  

[Vince Green]

More likely to be an accuracy issue if you want something to worry about. Heavier pellets often (not always) more fussy. My rifle hated them, only way is to try some.

If anything your ft lbs are likely to go down rather than up because your velocity will be probably less

The only way with an air rifle is trial and error

[Ultrastu]

Depending on the  barrel length and exhaust valve .pelllet over 18 grn tend to make less energy not more .

Pcps with short barrels (300 mm ) tend to increase in energy up to around 18 grn jsb in .22 and 10.5 grns in .177 after that they tend to drop again .longer barrels 400 - 500 mm can make more energy with lighter pellets or more often the weight make little difference  

[Mice!]

30 minutes ago, stuartyboy said:

25 grain pellets.

Short range fun? I'm thinking you want to put big holes in something?

[Ultrastu]

By big do you mean longer ?.as i doubt a 25 grn .22 wont make a wider hole than any other .22 pellet  

[Mice!]

Good point, I always think of heavier pellets giving a bigger whack, making a bigger hole.

[Ultrastu]

The bigger whack comes when hitting steel or tin something with a hard surface ..the extra momentum of the heavy pellet requires more stopping so it tends to plough onwards either penetrating or pushing the hard surface backwards. 

[Ultrastu]

A wider hole will be made in a softer substrate . (Flesh -  gel - cheese if you want  ) by a pellet that deforms quickly dumping all its energy .

To get that you need a low bc at fast speeds and a fragile construction pellet.

A .177 wad cutter is a great example .

But this type of pellet wont rock your steel spinner back so much as the lack of weight and momentum doesnt do this so well .

So fast , light  .177 wad cutters for short to med range rats   (make wide holes in them) 

Slower heavier .22  round heads for pigeons that need more penetration to get through the big chest or crop (makes a deeper hole )

 

[stuartyboy]

Thanks for your input, some knowledgeable folk here.

11 hours ago, Mice! said:

Short range fun? I'm thinking you want to put big holes in something?

It's for close range squirrels (16 yards) in the garden. The air rifle is pin point accurate, especially at this range. I've shot 40 or so squirrels with it. Every one a 'textbook' head shot. But a few out of the 40 or so, I've had to shoot between the eyes, front on. It completely incapacitates them but requires a second shot, preferably to between eye and ear side on. I was wondering if a heavier pellet, if accuracy was good, would be cleaner as it had more mass. 

[Robertt]

On a facing shot go a bit higher than between the eyes and you will definitely be shooting into the brain.

 

 

[chrisjpainter]

1 hour ago, stuartyboy said:

Thanks for your input, some knowledgeable folk here.

It's for close range squirrels (16 yards) in the garden. The air rifle is pin point accurate, especially at this range. I've shot 40 or so squirrels with it. Every one a 'textbook' head shot. But a few out of the 40 or so, I've had to shoot between the eyes, front on. It completely incapacitates them but requires a second shot, preferably to between eye and ear side on. I was wondering if a heavier pellet, if accuracy was good, would be cleaner as it had more mass. 

This is the mistake, not the energy or the accuracy. Like most rodents, grey squirrels have an extended mouth sloping away from the eyes and this has a number of effects when shooting straight on. Firstly, the front of the skull can effectively make a ramp, forcing the pellet to ricochet rather than penetrate properly. secondly, if it does penetrate, because you're forcing a pellet through the bone at an angle and not the flat surface of the side, the pellet has more bone to pass through, slowing the pellet down a little bit more in the process. thirdly, depending on the horizontal angle of the shot, a pellet might have to pass through three layers of bone in order to get to the cranial cavity at the back of the skull:

Photo: Will's Skull Page, http://www.skullsite.co.uk/Squirrels/squirrels.htm

All of this has an impact on velocity and penetration. It will be a dead squirrel, eventually, but as you've experienced it's not as quick as it should be. My advice is avoid between the eye shots. A flat, perpendicular shot to the side of the skull is the quickest and easiest route to the brain as you can get, with the minimum amount of bone and tissue blocking its path. Rodents have comparatively thick skulls, so I try and make life easier on myself and go for the shortest route possible to the kill zone.

 

[Ultrastu]

What an excellent post  above .

This goes extra for rabbits as the distances tend to be greater and the skull even bigger and longer .

The exception (as far as rodents are concerened ) is with rats  their skulls are much smaller and fragile and a pellet to the front of the head at close range tends to fully penetrate and continue on through the body hitting all the vital organs and nervous  system. Shutting them down completely  .i had such a rat the other night .head was down slightly (as the do ) and the pellet when in his head and exited somewhere around his under belly. I actually found the pellet right next to him stone dead with hardly a twitch .The above isnt a shot that you can easily do on a rabbit or squirrel with a sub 12 gun  an fac is another matter ofcourse .

 

[figgy]

Stuart oy, have you cleaned your barrel? Also what head size pellets you Shooting, all has an affect on muzzle energy.

Try cleaning the barrel and try some 5.5 & 5.51 head size pellets. The Hades are smaller heads and fly fast.

[Mice!]

Great info Chris, got to say I don't often shoot squirrels straight on because of what you've said, I wait for the side on head shot or if their sat face on then take a chest shot.

I tend to be shooting from above or bellow.

But I've watched a good few videos and guys shooting with. 177 don't seem to have any bother with shooting between the eyes.

[Robertt]

Taking a higher point of aim than ' between the eye's ' I have had no issues with very instant kills.

Whilst having a fun plinking day with the kids we did a load of, demolishing thick bean cans and heavy beer bottles at 55 yards with standard weight .177 & .22 pellets.

Thus a squiggels skull at less than 20y is not an issue.

Edited February 25, 2020 by Robertt

[Arron yeates]

Great post this very informative picture above. Thanks lads

[Dibble]

 

I had a similar issue a few years ago, I wanted to remove some squirrels from a garden but couldn't afford a runner making it to the neighbours garden.

I've just dug out the pellets I tried.

the pellet on the left is in a bag marked Piledriver, the middle one is marked Sniper Magnum I've put a Bisley Magnum on the right to show size.

From memory the Piledriver gave 20mm groups at 10meters and ended up sticking half in-half out of a piece of 4x2", the Sniper magnum gave 10mm groups and ended up with the skirt going a few mm into the 4x2". My normal pellet is JSB Exact heavy which goes through the same hole at that range and went about 20mm in to the wood.

I used the Sniper at about 7m which worked from the side.

Sorry should have said BSA Ultra .177

 

Edited February 29, 2020 by Dibble