The American way

[NoBodyImportant]

In America if a person with the virus dies they record it as if they died of covid19.  The Hospital gets money for have a covid19 patients in there hospital.  I see it every day it is in the news.  Person in Mecklinburge County dies with Covid 19.  Then you read the article and the person was 95 years old and went into heart failure “possibly brought on by Covid 19”

[WalkedUp]

We are all going to die eventually, if you take your argument to its logical conclusion then every single death certificate should record an identical cause of death... “birth.”

6 minutes ago, NoBodyImportant said:

Person in Mecklinburge County dies with Covid 19.  Then you read the article and the person was 95 years old and went into heart failure “possibly brought on by Covid 19”

 

[Saltings]

all deaths in the media is corvid 19  at the moment      no heart failure / strokes     /  rta    over doses      suicides   or terminally ill    old age /  natural causes    shot or stabbed 

all about the 19

[NoBodyImportant]

4 hours ago, Saltings said:

all deaths in the media is corvid 19  at the moment      no heart failure / strokes     /  rta    over doses      suicides   or terminally ill    old age /  natural causes    shot or stabbed 

all about the 19

. 

 

On 28/04/2020 at 20:19, ordnance said:

No, deaths that are recorded as CV are caused by CV not flu etc. 

Straight from the White House: The federal government is classifying the deaths of patients infected with the coronavirus as COVID-19 deaths, regardless of any underlying health issues that could have contributed to the loss of someone's life.

Dr. Deborah Birx, the response coordinator for the White House coronavirus task force, said the federal government is continuing to count the suspected COVID-19 deaths, despite other nations doing the opposite.

"There are other countries that if you had a pre-existing condition, and let's say the virus caused you to go to the ICU [intensive care unit] and then have a heart or kidney problem," she said during a Tuesday news briefing at the White House. "Some countries are recording that as a heart issue or a kidney issue and not a COVID-19 death.

"The intent is ... if someone dies with COVID-19 we are counting that," she added.

Edited April 30, 2020 by NoBodyImportant

[Vince Green]

There are very conflicting issues going on here if you read the better newsfeeds like NYT and Bloombergs

It is believed the actual deathtoll is much higher in the USA than is being stated, some estimate it might be double because many are believed to be dying without ever coming into contact with the medical establishment due mainly to poverty and the way medical services are structured in the US. 

The White House needs to play down the reality of the situation because the American economy is far more fragile than most European or Far Eastern economies. It relies on continuous and conspicuous consumption and the money moving round and round very quickly..

Already the US GDP has dropped nearly 5% and is going into freefall. if it reaches 30% down (and it easily could) the country is effectively bust, very few of the major corporations could survive the fall and the subsequent years in the wilderness afterwards.

That's why Trump is desperate to keep talking up the return to work and restarting the economy as quickly as possible. I don't think he regard the number of deaths as being anywhere near as costly as prolonging the lockdown 

that's my view, no doubt others will disagree

[henry d]

I think you are pretty much spot on Vince, I also think that NS is trying to get Scotland going for similar reasons as oil prices are in the cludgie and what else is there apart from tourism, computer games and whisky...

[WestonSalop]

29 minutes ago, henry d said:

I think you are pretty much spot on Vince, I also think that NS is trying to get Scotland going for similar reasons as oil prices are in the cludgie and what else is there apart from tourism, computer games and whisky...

It has you Henry - a precious natural resource!

[henry d]

1 hour ago, WestonSalop said:

It has you Henry - a precious natural resource!

I'm offski ASAP my friend, if it weren't for C19 I would have been in Tyneside looking at houses or putting in offers by now!

[NoBodyImportant]

6 hours ago, Vince Green said:

There are very conflicting issues going on here if you read the better newsfeeds like NYT and Bloombergs

It is believed the actual deathtoll is much higher in the USA than is being stated, some estimate it might be double because many are believed to be dying without ever coming into contact with the medical establishment due mainly to poverty and the way medical services are structured in the US. 

The White House needs to play down the reality of the situation because the American economy is far more fragile than most European or Far Eastern economies. It relies on continuous and conspicuous consumption and the money moving round and round very quickly..

Already the US GDP has dropped nearly 5% and is going into freefall. if it reaches 30% down (and it easily could) the country is effectively bust, very few of the major corporations could survive the fall and the subsequent years in the wilderness afterwards.

That's why Trump is desperate to keep talking up the return to work and restarting the economy as quickly as possible. I don't think he regard the number of deaths as being anywhere near as costly as prolonging the lockdown 

that's my view, no doubt others will disagree

NYT and Bloomberg TV both twist numbers to make it worse.  They want to extend the shut down as long as possible.  Because they know the market and economy will roar back to life as soon as we get back going.  That will be bad for the Democratic party in the up coming elections.  Because during the last elections Obama claimed that the economy was the best it could be because the world was changing and that 1 percent growth was the new normal.  He said that manufacturing jobs where not coming back the America.  Trump came in and within a year proved him wrong in a big way.  If trump can do it again in 6 month leading up to the elections he will lock in Republican victory across the board.  

[ordnance]

Quote

Straight from the White House: The federal government is classifying the deaths of patients infected with the corona virus as COVID-19 deaths, regardless of any underlying health issues that could have contributed to the loss of someone's life..

I wouldn't believe much comes out of the Trumps White House, its in their interest to downplay the numbers.

 

Quote

 

Just the tip of the iceberg'?

Still, Mark Hayward, a sociology professor at the University of Texas-Austin, said the discrepancies likely mean America's current official Covid-19 death count represents "just the tip of the iceberg" of how deadly the disease has been in country. "[T]he undercount is going to be really high" at the start of the epidemic, he said.Robert Anderson, chief of CDC's mortality statistics branch, said national death counts based on death certificates always are an underestimate, even for common illnesses like the flu. Eventually, CDC likely will adjust its national death count for Covid-19 by comparing the total deaths recorded during the epidemic to historic death rates.

 

. 

Edited April 30, 2020 by ordnance

[WalkedUp]

The UK death toll just as inaccurate, every nation is twisting the facts or unable to truly confirm numbers. My cousin’s death has been recorded as Covid-19 as she had symptoms then was discovered dead. No test on the body or autopsy though so who knows?! She had asthma but was only 42...

[NoBodyImportant]

36 minutes ago, WalkedUp said:

The UK death toll just as inaccurate, every nation is twisting the facts or unable to truly confirm numbers. My cousin’s death has been recorded as Covid-19 as she had symptoms then was discovered dead. No test on the body or autopsy though so who knows?! She had asthma but was only 42...

This is the same thing happening here.  One person was over 500lbs and had heart failure.  

Edited April 30, 2020 by NoBodyImportant

[ordnance]

Quote

This is the same thing happening here.  One person was over 500lbs and had heart failure. 

Then the cause of death would be heart failure, with CV ad a contributing factor. Just like flu, the cause of death is usually pneumonia, what killed them the flu or pneumonia. The cause of death would be pneumonia with flu as a contributing factor. 

Quote

UNDERLYING CAUSE OF DEATH 1. Definition: UNDERLYING CAUSE OF DEATH is defined by the World Health Organization (WHO) as the disease or injury that initiated the train of events leading directly to death, or the circumstances of the accident or violence which produced the fatal injury.

 

[Vince Green]

That's like saying my Dad didn't die of cancer he died of a morphine overdose in a hospice. Which to be honest he probably did. But it depends which reason suits you to record.

Most residents in a hospice probably die of a morphine overdose. But the death certificate says cancer

Edited April 30, 2020 by Vince Green

[lancer425]

Is it just me or anyone else think this might not end well.