Kids summer holidays cancelled

[markm]

1 hour ago, Jaymo said:

Really?????

Thats placing more spin than an Australian fast bowler on the issue!
So, Teachers say they’re not paid enough and yet their salary is only ‘pro Rata’, best you start working the holidays and increase it then!

The LEA sets those term times and dates which have been traditionally followed for as long as we have known, but there is nothing stopping them from reducing or moving those dates. Academies generally set their date to coincide whereas it’s been some ‘Free Schools and other establishments such as Steiner Schools, follow a slightly different pattern.

 

I get paid for 1265 hours per year.

 

I would (roughly) think I had done that many by the end of Feb. Take into account what I’ve done since (roughly 4 hours a day including Easter Holidays). That’s me off till September.......

 

But of course, I won’t be doing that.....

Edited May 25, 2020 by markm

[Bumble]

2 hours ago, Jaymo said:

Really?????

Thats placing more spin than an Australian fast bowler on the issue!
So, Teachers say they’re not paid enough and yet their salary is only ‘pro Rata’, best you start working the holidays and increase it then!

The LEA sets those term times and dates which have been traditionally followed for as long as we have known, but there is nothing stopping them from reducing or moving those dates. Academies generally set their date to coincide whereas it’s been some ‘Free Schools and other establishments such as Steiner Schools, follow a slightly different pattern.

 

No spin, it’s fact. The same way that we don’t get paid for doing all the work we inevitably do on weekends or evenings. We also spend massive chunks of holidays working (it doesn’t all plan itself!); just because it isn’t in the classroom doesn’t mean it’s not work. 
 

Still, what do we know eh; it’s not as if we do it for a living or anything like that. 

[Jaymo]

15 minutes ago, Bumble said:

No spin, it’s fact. The same way that we don’t get paid for doing all the work we inevitably do on weekends or evenings. We also spend massive chunks of holidays working (it doesn’t all plan itself!); just because it isn’t in the classroom doesn’t mean it’s not work. 
 

Still, what do we know eh; it’s not as if we do it for a living or anything like that. 

But hasn’t that always been part “of the job”?

I spent time in the 70’s following my neighbour into her Primary School during the holidays to collect work to mark and also prepare/set up her classroom for the following terms/week.

Did you not know that or expect it? my brother works in finance in a Country where there are very strict labour laws on hours worked, and yet he is away from 7.30am until around 8 most nights and works weekends- it’s how it is?

Im contracted for 210 days per year, but all my down time is spent in hotels or travelling- it’s how it is.

To any other Profession, the Teaching mantra of we work ‘Pro Rata’ plus five days would be ridiculed away, and yet if we dare to question it then you seem to be very defensive.

Mentioned it before, apart from the family friend, that my SIL is a Head Teacher and so I’m not taking on a ‘Facebook’ view on it.

Ive lost all my holidays whilst being on furlough, even though I’ve not been able to go anywhere and have had to carry out regular training session, both self learning and videoconferencing- yet from July the first ( was meant to be June the  first, but postponed again due to a certain Government quarantine mandate). But when we go back, we will have to continue to work over the Summer- should the Teaching profession not maybe ‘give a little too’ ( refer to SIL paragraph above- know how much some Teachers have actually been doing since closures) 

Whilst it’s preached that “we want to provide the best for our pupils”, then why so stubborn or the lack of flexibility?

[Sian]

There’s a certain irony in the fact that often the younger children repeat what they did in the last term of Reception when they go into year 1 due to the long holidays.  They simply forget things plus they are out of routine.  In terms of what they are missing during this period against the rest of their lives at school and beyond is a blink of an eye.   Are those children in other countries that don’t start formal schooling until 6/7 less equipped when they are adults?   No.   I’m sick of teacher bashing, there isn’t any respect in this country for the teaching profession.  It’s no wonder that teachers leave in droves.  I am not a teacher by the way.  I do work in a school, a private one for 2 to 7 year olds and my teachers have been flat out the whole way through as have I.   There are an awful lot of parents who need to come back to school to learn their manners.  It is far harder to provide online learning than to be present with your pupils.   

If you want to make a difference to anyone’s education then it should be those who need the support going into their exam years.   If they are worried about vulnerable children then provide more social workers who actually have the time to put work into children and their families.   This I can speak on as one of my roles is a Safeguarding Lead and the system is rubbish.   Teachers are not social workers nor should they be.   

As for being at no more risk than working in the supermarket please!!!!    The scientists have not concluded this to be so.   They can’t know yet.    There is so much cow pat bandied around as gospel.   

I have spent countless hours going over and over how I can accommodate the children coming back safely for both staff and children and each time I think I’m there I’m not.   I don’t have enough staff to “bubble” the children in small groups and then there’s the space to separate the bubbles.   You see it’s so very safe to do that you need to keep the bubbles away from each other!!! 

I’m pretty hardy and I’m not a panicker but I know too many top ranking Drs, scientists and  research scientists all working full on with this that politicians of any persuasion can go do one.   They follow the science whilst it suits them.  And yes I know the economy is ruined and we can’t wait for a vaccine but I’m sick of hearing their reasons for a return as if they truly care about the children’s welfare.  It’s the economy so be honest about it.    

 

 

 

 

[Jaymo]

14 minutes ago, Sian said:

As for being at no more risk than working in the supermarket please!!!!    The scientists have not concluded this to be so.   They can’t know yet.    There is so much cow pat bandied around as gospel. 

 

 

 

 

 

Really? 
So, apart from a little bit of inter teacher mixing, the children will be divided up into their peer groups and stay in these groups.

Mr/Mrs Supermarket checkout person still has to face THOUSANDS of individuals a day, who btw, will not have had parents looking after them and Noticing if they are sick- whereas “sick public person” who needs food, despite the the poster requests outside of the Supermarkets- will still enter.

Until furlough ( some of my colleagues are still flying), we were sat in a metal tube with hundred or so ‘Unknown’s’ sharing the same ‘fresh’ air-  not one teddy has been thrown.

Looking out for Children’s safety- should it not be the Parents choice as to whether they feel the Schools are safe enough? If they weren’t ‘Safe’ then even those from vulnerable backgrounds and key workers wouldn’t be attending ‘any’ form of Schooling!

Schools we’re quick enough to close with Government advice, and yet with the same Government's advice- are choosing to contradict it. Now can you see why some view their reticence in a slightly hostile way, when all around others have either , continued to work, or are returning to work. 
 

 

[The Heron]

Look if teaching thats bad get out of it and do something else but please stop whinging. 

[Sian]

4 minutes ago, Jaymo said:

Really? 
So, apart from a little bit of inter teacher mixing, the children will be divided up into their peer groups and stay in these groups.

Mr/Mrs Supermarket checkout person still has to face THOUSANDS of individuals a day, who btw, will not have had parents looking after them and Noticing if they are sick- whereas “sick public person” who needs food, despite the the poster requests outside of the Supermarkets- will still enter.

Until furlough ( some of my colleagues are still flying), we were sat in a metal tube with hundred or so ‘Unknown’s’ sharing the same ‘fresh’ air-  not one teddy has been thrown.

Looking out for Children’s safety- should it not be the Parents choice as to whether they feel the Schools are safe enough? If they weren’t ‘Safe’ then even those from vulnerable backgrounds and key workers wouldn’t be attending ‘any’ form of Schooling!

Schools we’re quick enough to close with Government advice, and yet with the same Government's advice- are choosing to contradict it. Now can you see why some view their reticence in a slightly hostile way, when all around others have either , continued to work, or are returning to work. 
 

 

Supermarket - they get to wear the mask and if my trips to the supermarket are anything to go by they are able to step out of each others way and my Sainsbury’s has a barrier between me and a cashier.  

You sound like we all rushed for the door.  We did what everyone else was told to do no different.   We didn’t at our school we were there on the Monday for lots of frontline kids.    

Lots of parents don’t think it’s safe if you have a look at social media.   Lots want to return so long as you can Ben a miracle worker and keep them all separate.  One parent thought we should come by taxi to school rather than buses and tubes at our expense mind you and I’m not sure that is any safer really.  

There is no teacher mixing.  I’ll have to put two staff with a group of 8 so they can cover each other within their bubble.  

Like I said there isn’t proof yet about the safety, that will come in time.  its like anything, one group say yes others say it’s not proven yet.   I don’t actually mind that it’s not proven but I do mind they choose what suits their agenda.   Just be honest is all I am asking.  I’ll still be there tomorrow and the next day and so on.

 

12 minutes ago, The Heron said:

Look if teaching thats bad get out of it and do something else but please stop whinging. 

I’m not whinging and I’m not a teacher.   

[12gauge82]

Got to be honest, I think some teachers are too used to having a day off at the first sniff of anything. There's risks in many jobs, take the armed forces, they get sent to face bullets, sometimes with a very high probability of death, yet you very rarely here them complain, I know that's not a direct comparison as they sign up for it, however schools are going to need to reopen, there's no guarantee of a vaccine and I'd take being a teacher over a supermarket employee everyday of the week under the current crisis. What's teacher's thoughts on if a vaccine doesn't materialize, never go back to school again?

[Sian]

6 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Got to be honest, I think some teachers are too used to having a day off at the first sniff of anything. There's risks in many jobs, take the armed forces, they get sent to face bullets, sometimes with a very high probability of death, yet you very rarely here them complain, I know that's not a direct comparison as they sign up for it, however schools are going to need to reopen, there's no guarantee of a vaccine and I'd take being a teacher over a supermarket employee everyday of the week under the current crisis. What's teacher's thoughts on if a vaccine doesn't materialize, never go back to school again?

I think most teachers, the vast majority want to go back to school.  I just don’t think the logistics of what is say being asked has been taken  into account.    I don’t think the vast majority are saying they should wait for a vaccine at all, again media runs away with half truths or no truth and all of a sudden all teachers obviously think the same!  Some teachers, some office staff, some this some that - there will always be those who let the side down - why do they all get tarred with it.  I don’t by the way belittle the job of any worker out there supermarket worker, street cleaner etc etc or think any one is more dangerous than the other except all emergency services - they are very vulnerable.   I don’t think it’s a competition is it?   Again I’m just wanting them to be a little more truthful with the reasoning.  You’re right you can’t compare a soldier to a teacher although in America seems to me you need to be prepared to die whilst undertaking your teaching job.  I’m not arguing we don’t go back, just how and why we are going back.  

[Jaymo]

1 hour ago, Sian said:

Supermarket - they get to wear the mask and if my trips to the supermarket are anything to go by they are able to step out of each others way and my Sainsbury’s has a barrier between me and a cashier.  

 

Here, so far in Sainsbury’s I’ve only see two members of staff wearing masks- Asda I don’t recall any and the same in the local Aldi ( my wife likes to buy things from different places)- the only one where a few more staff were wearing any additional PPE such as a face shield, was Waitrose.

The barrier that you refer too- you did see the blooming big gap from where the goods on the conveyor belt goes is and also the one through which you collect and bag your stuff? Minimal to moderate protection at best.

This virus.  like every other Disease in the world can only ever be second guessed and partially mitigated- the five test that the Teaching Unions are asking for is well in excess of anything that’s been commissioned in ‘non public sector’ environments.

 

[Sian]

5 minutes ago, Jaymo said:

Here, so far in Sainsbury’s I’ve only see two members of staff wearing masks- Asda I don’t recall any and the same in the local Aldi ( my wife likes to buy things from different places)- the only one where a few more staff were wearing any additional PPE such as a face shield, was Waitrose.

The barrier that you refer too- you did see the blooming big gap from where the goods on the conveyor belt goes is and also the one through which you collect and bag your stuff? Minimal to moderate protection at best.

This virus.  like every other Disease in the world can only ever be second guessed and partially mitigated- the five test that the Teaching Unions are asking for is well in excess of anything that’s been commissioned in ‘non public sector’ environments.

 

Just so you know not every teacher is in a union.  I have 50 teachers and  1 is in a union.  I would just like to see teachers or any other sector for that matter not tarred with the same brush.

[12gauge82]

1 hour ago, Sian said:

I think most teachers, the vast majority want to go back to school.  I just don’t think the logistics of what is say being asked has been taken  into account.    I don’t think the vast majority are saying they should wait for a vaccine at all, again media runs away with half truths or no truth and all of a sudden all teachers obviously think the same!  Some teachers, some office staff, some this some that - there will always be those who let the side down - why do they all get tarred with it.  I don’t by the way belittle the job of any worker out there supermarket worker, street cleaner etc etc or think any one is more dangerous than the other except all emergency services - they are very vulnerable.   I don’t think it’s a competition is it?   Again I’m just wanting them to be a little more truthful with the reasoning.  You’re right you can’t compare a soldier to a teacher although in America seems to me you need to be prepared to die whilst undertaking your teaching job.  I’m not arguing we don’t go back, just how and why we are going back.  

If not wait for a vaccine, why wait at all?

[Jaymo]

3 minutes ago, Sian said:

Just so you know not every teacher is in a union.  I have 50 teachers and  1 is in a union.  I would just like to see teachers or any other sector for that matter not tarred with the same brush.

Is that possibly due to your work in the ‘Private’ sector of Education- vastly different attitudes and expectations ( oh how I remember my time boarding - god I hated meal times with what ever each house/year group, had made in HE- then went ‘State’ and bunked off to the chippy instead) 

[Sian]

12 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

If not wait for a vaccine, why wait at all?

You could argue that a bit longer would take the transmission rate down.  I’m not saying wait, I’m saying think about who really needs to go back first, don’t give half a******* guidance about going back and above all be honest about the reason.   We are open 51 weeks of the year.   Our primary teachers are term time but they all come in over the holidays to work for the next term and prepare their classes and resources and those in nursery through Reception work all year.   We’re not frightened about losing our holidays, it’s not about that.

18 minutes ago, Jaymo said:

Is that possibly due to your work in the ‘Private’ sector of Education- vastly different attitudes and expectations ( oh how I remember my time boarding - god I hated meal times with what ever each house/year group, had made in HE- then went ‘State’ and bunked off to the chippy instead) 

I remember my boarding school mealtimes, life long eat in a hurry always.  Private sector yes but all those teachers have worked in both state and private.  

[12gauge82]

24 minutes ago, Sian said:

You could argue that a bit longer would take the transmission rate down.  I’m not saying wait, I’m saying think about who really needs to go back first, don’t give half a******* guidance about going back and above all be honest about the reason.   We are open 51 weeks of the year.   Our primary teachers are term time but they all come in over the holidays to work for the next term and prepare their classes and resources and those in nursery through Reception work all year.   We’re not frightened about losing our holidays, it’s not about that.

I remember my boarding school mealtimes, life long eat in a hurry always.  Private sector yes but all those teachers have worked in both state and private.  

I can see no reason to wait, with no vaccine on the horizon, it's no different if we open now or later, once cases start to spike again we can then think of shutting down again if necessary.

I'm all for protecting lives first and foremost, but without a vaccine, we can't hide forever.

[Sian]

32 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

I can see no reason to wait, with no vaccine on the horizon, it's no different if we open now or later, once cases start to spike again we can then think of shutting down again if necessary.

I'm all for protecting lives first and foremost, but without a vaccine, we can't hide forever.

Well I’ve not been hiding and there I'll leave it.

[12gauge82]

9 minutes ago, Sian said:

Well I’ve not been hiding and there I'll leave it.

Apologies if I gave the impression I was directly attacking you as I'm not. However, I think the teacher's refusing to go back to work need to get real, I'm sure they'd take a different view if they couldn't eat as supermarket workers refused to work due to risk.

[markm]

3 hours ago, The Heron said:

Look if teaching thats bad get out of it and do something else but please stop whinging. 

Show me one on here, without editing their posts (or you’ll look like the gutter press.....)

 

PS - I also can’t find any teachers actually staring threads..... just parents who are annoyed they’ve paid big dollar for private education or those who are sick of their kids (by the way, I didn’t sign up to be a nanny, if it’s that easy a  job, jump on board and join the gravy train.)

 

 

 

[markm]

1 hour ago, Jaymo said:

This virus.  like every other Disease in the world can only ever be second guessed and partially mitigated- the five test that the Teaching Unions are asking for is well in excess of anything that’s been commissioned in ‘non public sector’ environments.

 

As I’ve mentioned previously, in other teacher kicking posts. My school on a ‘normal’ day will have 1200-1300 people in it. If it was a ‘business’ as well as every other public building (Including prisons) you’d be luck to have 200 people in it.  How many should be in it now?
 

Explain how you RA and manage that.... @experts

[blackbird]

One thing is for sure if the teachers unions have their way we are going to have many thick kids out there 😀

Edited May 25, 2020 by blackbird

[The Heron]

52 minutes ago, markm said:

Show me one on here, without editing their posts (or you’ll look like the gutter press.....)

 

PS - I also can’t find any teachers actually staring threads..... just parents who are annoyed they’ve paid big dollar for private education or those who are sick of their kids (by the way, I didn’t sign up to be a nanny, if it’s that easy a  job, jump on board and join the gravy train.)

 

 

 

Did you not read the thread if you are a teacher I would expect you to. 

[Mice!]

3 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

Got to be honest, I think some teachers are too used to having a day off at the first sniff of anything. There's risks in many jobs, take the armed forces, they get sent to face bullets, sometimes with a very high probability of death, yet you very rarely here them complain, I know that's not a direct comparison as they sign up for it, however schools are going to need to reopen, there's no guarantee of a vaccine and I'd take being a teacher over a supermarket employee everyday of the week under the current crisis. What's teacher's thoughts on if a vaccine doesn't materialize, never go back to school again?

Well some of the comments on here have really made me laugh, comparing the Armed forces with teaching really?? 

I've asked this before, the liberals have bleated about bus drivers and security guards, people in low paid manual jobs being at most risk, but there has been no mention of supermarket workers going down with the virus, despite them breathing the same air all day long as the general public.

2 hours ago, Jaymo said:

Here, so far in Sainsbury’s I’ve only see two members of staff wearing masks- Asda I don’t recall any and the same in the local Aldi ( my wife likes to buy things from different places)- the only one where a few more staff were wearing any additional PPE such as a face shield, was Waitrose.

Probably means Waitrose is supplying and insisting they wear them, while others say it's up to the individual?

Nice to see your going around all the shops though?

I wonder how many saying what the teachers should be doing have been sat at home furloughed since all this started, while the teachers still covered the key workers kids and worked from home.

The government extended the furlough scheme till sep/Oct  which means what? Why send the schools back if people aren't back at work.

[The Heron]

4 hours ago, Sian said:

Supermarket - they get to wear the mask and if my trips to the supermarket are anything to go by they are able to step out of each others way and my Sainsbury’s has a barrier between me and a cashier.  

You sound like we all rushed for the door.  We did what everyone else was told to do no different.   We didn’t at our school we were there on the Monday for lots of frontline kids.    

Lots of parents don’t think it’s safe if you have a look at social media.   Lots want to return so long as you can Ben a miracle worker and keep them all separate.  One parent thought we should come by taxi to school rather than buses and tubes at our expense mind you and I’m not sure that is any safer really.  

There is no teacher mixing.  I’ll have to put two staff with a group of 8 so they can cover each other within their bubble.  

Like I said there isn’t proof yet about the safety, that will come in time.  its like anything, one group say yes others say it’s not proven yet.   I don’t actually mind that it’s not proven but I do mind they choose what suits their agenda.   Just be honest is all I am asking.  I’ll still be there tomorrow and the next day and so on.

 

I’m not whinging and I’m not a teacher.   Reading your reply I thought you weren't winging but you are 

 

[12gauge82]

14 minutes ago, Mice! said:

Well some of the comments on here have really made me laugh, comparing the Armed forces with teaching really?? 

I've asked this before, the liberals have bleated about bus drivers and security guards, people in low paid manual jobs being at most risk, but there has been no mention of supermarket workers going down with the virus, despite them breathing the same air all day long as the general public.

Probably means Waitrose is supplying and insisting they wear them, while others say it's up to the individual?

Nice to see your going around all the shops though?

I wonder how many saying what the teachers should be doing have been sat at home furloughed since all this started, while the teachers still covered the key workers kids and worked from home.

The government extended the furlough scheme till sep/Oct  which means what? Why send the schools back if people aren't back at work.

Answer this then, at what point should teachers go back if there's no vaccine and no cure?

[Bumble]

10 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Answer this then, at what point should teachers go back if there's no vaccine and no cure?

https://neu.org.uk/neu-five-tests-government-schools-can-re-open