Air travel - so unrealistic

[grrclark]

25 minutes ago, Mice! said:

I don't for a minute think that a government that relies on tourism for a large part of its income.e would lie about its figures?? I mean what would they have to gain??

As for lockdown,  they might need to get more sophisticated but people shouldn't have been flying to Spain, why would you put your family at risk for a couple of weeks of sun.

Why should they have not gone to Spain?  At the time of the announcement of the air bridges Spain had a lower infection rate than England.

Why are we so quick to demonise people for wanting to have a holiday?  

[Mice!]

2 minutes ago, grrclark said:

Why should they have not gone to Spain?  At the time of the announcement of the air bridges Spain had a lower infection rate than England.

Why are we so quick to demonise people for wanting to have a holiday?  

I don't think people should be flying on holiday full stop at the moment,  I just dont see the need, many many people have just sat at home for months,  explore the British isles. 

We have no idea what the figures in Europe really are,  why take the risk of sitting on a plane, going through airports,  meeting a load of strangers then repeating it all on the way home.

[JohnfromUK]

6 minutes ago, grrclark said:

Why are we so quick to demonise people for wanting to have a holiday?

I don't.  But I do strongly disagree with those who simply ignore regulations that are designed to protect the country (and its maybe rather creaky health and care services).  By that I mean;

• Those who don't/won't social distance and turn up to demos, mobs, (near) riots etc.
• Those who set up and go to 'raves' and similar events where there are mass gatherings breaking rules
• Those who refuse to wear a mask (without good reason)
• Any who refuse to give contact details when tested positive
• And I will add any that refuse to quarantine when ordered to do so

These measures are in place to protect everyone and hopefully allow us to get back to a degree of normality as soon as possible.

People who went to Spain did so (at risk) but quite legally and in line with the then current guidance.  That has now changed because circumstances have changed, and they should follow the new guidance that will apply on their return.  If they refuse or don't comply (as some claim they will)  - then I do condemn that and believe that the penalties should be applied.

5 minutes ago, Mice! said:

I don't think people should be flying on holiday full stop at the moment,  I just dont see the need, many many people have just sat at home for months,  explore the British isles. 

We have no idea what the figures in Europe really are,  why take the risk of sitting on a plane, going through airports,  meeting a load of strangers then repeating it all on the way home.

On a personal basis I completely agree.  There is no way I would go - but they did follow the 'then current' guidance.

[grrclark]

58 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

I don't.  But I do strongly disagree with those who simply ignore regulations that are designed to protect the country (and its maybe rather creaky health and care services).  By that I mean;

• Those who don't/won't social distance and turn up to demos, mobs, (near) riots etc.
• Those who set up and go to 'raves' and similar events where there are mass gatherings breaking rules
• Those who refuse to wear a mask (without good reason)
• Any who refuse to give contact details when tested positive
• And I will add any that refuse to quarantine when ordered to do so

These measures are in place to protect everyone and hopefully allow us to get back to a degree of normality as soon as possible.

People who went to Spain did so (at risk) but quite legally and in line with the then current guidance.  That has now changed because circumstances have changed, and they should follow the new guidance that will apply on their return.  If they refuse or don't comply (as some claim they will)  - then I do condemn that and believe that the penalties should be applied.

I agree with all of that John.

1 hour ago, Mice! said:

I don't think people should be flying on holiday full stop at the moment,  I just dont see the need, many many people have just sat at home for months,  explore the British isles. 

We have no idea what the figures in Europe really are,  why take the risk of sitting on a plane, going through airports,  meeting a load of strangers then repeating it all on the way home.

We have no idea what the figures really are in the UK either, we go on faith of what is reported is accurate.

We shall have to agree to disagree on people going abroad on holiday, it is personal choice and while you don't see the need for other people that may be the single biggest enjoyment in their life.  The two weeks of escape to some sunshine and a completely different outlook.

Before we are all very much older the climate activists would deny us all that freedom.

[Vince Green]

3 hours ago, Mice! said:

 people shouldn't have been flying to Spain, why would you put your family at risk for a couple of weeks of sun.

I know others disagree with me but I think they were extremely selfish and stupid to go in the first place. Now its all come unravelled they are busy complaining to interviewers its not fair, there was always a risk and they must have known that.

Nobody ever said it was totally safe as far as I'm aware.

I don't see a holiday in Spain as being esencial travel, I see it as extremely frivolous

Now i believe, with some justification because they said it when being interviewed, that a lot of them have no intention of quarantining when they get home. 

Edited July 28, 2020 by Vince Green

[JohnfromUK]

1 minute ago, Vince Green said:

Now i believe, with some justification because they said it when being interviewed, that a lot of them have no intention of quarantining when they get home.

And that is where our 'on trust' system all falls down.  People have no respect for tje law, common sense, or indeed anything other than their own selfish needs.  It is time a few were hit with BIG fines as a deterrent.  Years ago the British people were (in general) fairly law abiding - because the laws made sense and people could see why they were there.  Not now.

IF you pass a law - then you MUST be prepared to enforce it - or the whole system falls down and brings law and order disrepute.

[grrclark]

1 minute ago, JohnfromUK said:

And that is where our 'on trust' system all falls down.  People have no respect for tje law, common sense, or indeed anything other than their own selfish needs.  It is time a few were hit with BIG fines as a deterrent.  Years ago the British people were (in general) fairly law abiding - because the laws made sense and people could see why they were there.  Not now.

IF you pass a law - then you MUST be prepared to enforce it - or the whole system falls down and brings law and order disrepute.

This circles back to my point earlier, if we quietly accept bad law without challenge then we invite other problems.

Law that is unenforceable or made with no intention to enforce is bad law..

[AVB]

25 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

I know others disagree with me but I think they were extremely selfish and stupid to go in the first place. Now its all come unravelled they are busy complaining to interviewers its not fair, there was always a risk and they must have known that.

Nobody ever said it was totally safe as far as I'm aware.

I don't see a holiday in Spain as being esencial travel, I see it as extremely frivolous

Now i believe, with some justification because they said it when being interviewed, that a lot of them have no intention of quarantining when they get home. 

So when does it stop being selfish and stupid to go on holiday? 

[Mice!]

20 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

I know others disagree with me but I think they were extremely selfish and stupid to go in the first place. Now its all come unravelled they are busy complaining to interviewers its not fair, there was always a risk and they must have known that.

Nobody ever said it was totally safe as far as I'm aware.

I don't see a holiday in Spain as being esencial travel, I see it as extremely frivolous

Now i believe, with some justification because they said it when being interviewed, that a lot of them have no intention of quarantining when they get home. 

Plenty of people go away every year and if that's what they want off you go, I've been away plenty,  but given what's going on everywhere I'd have said this year was the year to give it a miss.

Its not like it's not been sunny during most of the lockdown.

It shouldn't be hard to check who's been away and that they are obeying quarantine on there return. 

[Scully]

It’s not for me for reasons I’ve already mentioned, but for as long as it’s legal I can’t see why folk shouldn’t go if  that’s what they want, it’s their choice. 
As long as they are aware there may be consequences, then it’s up to them as far as I’m concerned. 

[bavarianbrit]

1 hour ago, Mice! said:

Plenty of people go away every year and if that's what they want off you go, I've been away plenty,  but given what's going on everywhere I'd have said this year was the year to give it a miss.

Its not like it's not been sunny during most of the lockdown.

It shouldn't be hard to check who's been away and that they are obeying quarantine on there return. 

When a money transport is robbed the money cases pop off with a UV paint of sorts. How about all returning holidaymakers get a strip painted across the forehead then the law enforcers armed with an activator can see who is not obeying their two weeks of quarantine but it would not show to the normal neighbours so not too intrusive. Just a suggestion.

Edited July 28, 2020 by bavarianbrit

[Mice!]

34 minutes ago, bavarianbrit said:

When a money transport is robbed the money cases pop off with a UV paint of sorts. How about all returning holidaymakers get a strip painted across the forehead then the law enforcers armed with an activator can see who is not obeying their two weeks of quarantine but it would not show to the normal neighbours so not too intrusive. Just a suggestion.

While I did laugh, I can't see that one happening somehow. 

 

[grrclark]

48 minutes ago, bavarianbrit said:

When a money transport is robbed the money cases pop off with a UV paint of sorts. How about all returning holidaymakers get a strip painted across the forehead then the law enforcers armed with an activator can see who is not obeying their two weeks of quarantine but it would not show to the normal neighbours so not too intrusive. Just a suggestion.

Maybe tattoo some machine readable numbers on people and then we can keep a log of them permanently whatever they do?

[Scully]

12 minutes ago, grrclark said:

Maybe tattoo some machine readable numbers on people and then we can keep a log of them permanently whatever they do?

😀👍

[Vince Green]

2 hours ago, AVB said:

So when does it stop being selfish and stupid to go on holiday? 

When people stop dying every day? The idea of a lockdown, which is still in place ,is to reduce to a minimum unnecessary possibilities for spreading the infection

 

49 minutes ago, grrclark said:

Maybe tattoo some machine readable numbers on people and then we can keep a log of them permanently whatever they do?

 

track their mobile phones

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Vince Green said:

 

 

track their mobile phones

At that point I'll be buying an old Nokia 3310 or similar none smart phone. I'll keep my smart phone but it can sit on my desk all day.

Start tracking credit cards? Fine I'll go back to using cash for everything.

What next, a social credit score?

[Scully]

10 minutes ago, Mr_Nobody said:

At that point I'll be buying an old Nokia 3310 or similar none smart phone. I'll keep my smart phone but it can sit on my desk all day.

Start tracking credit cards? Fine I'll go back to using cash for everything.

What next, a social credit score?

Ditto. 

[Vince Green]

13 minutes ago, Mr_Nobody said:

At that point I'll be buying an old Nokia 3310 or similar none smart phone. I'll keep my smart phone but it can sit on my desk all day.

Start tracking credit cards? Fine I'll go back to using cash for everything.

What next, a social credit score?

Every mobile phone, even an old nokia is continually tracked and recorded now and has been for years by which tower it is signed on to. If you tell the police you were in a pub in the next town last Friday night with friends they can check whether you were in the vicinity of the pub.

You agreed to data sharing when you took out your contract

Edited July 28, 2020 by Vince Green

[grrclark]

17 minutes ago, Mr_Nobody said:

At that point I'll be buying an old Nokia 3310 or similar none smart phone. I'll keep my smart phone but it can sit on my desk all day.

Start tracking credit cards? Fine I'll go back to using cash for everything.

What next, a social credit score?

Sadly I don’t think that is so very far away.

I agree with your sentiment.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

Every mobile phone, even an old nokia is continually tracked and recorded now and has been for years by which tower it is signed on to. If you tell the police you were in a pub in the next town last Friday night with friends they can check whether you were in the vicinity of the pub.

You agreed to data sharing when you took out your contract

Being tracked to the nearest cell tower is quite different to being tracked to the nearest meter on your smartphone.

Plus I dare say I could get a pay as you go sim without having to sign a contract.

[AVB]

30 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

When people stop dying every day? The idea of a lockdown, which is still in place ,is to reduce to a minimum unnecessary possibilities for spreading the infection

 

track their mobile phones

When people stop dying every day! You do realise that people die every day regardless of Covid. So no foreign holidays for anybody ever again. 

[mel b3]

33 minutes ago, Mr_Nobody said:

At that point I'll be buying an old Nokia 3310 or similar none smart phone. I'll keep my smart phone but it can sit on my desk all day.

Start tracking credit cards? Fine I'll go back to using cash for everything.

What next, a social credit score?

Excuse my ignorance,  but what's a social credit score ? .

[AVB]

There is too much focus on the need to self isolate when returning imo. The more important thing is that countries are on the FCO  ‘essential travel only’ list which means that your insurance would be invalid. There are also conflicts between the FCO ‘essential travel list’ and the need to self isolate. Mauritius, for example, is on the ‘essential travel only’ list but you don’t need to self isolate when returning. Confusing. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, mel b3 said:

Excuse my ignorance,  but what's a social credit score ? .

Currently employed in Communist China. A government record of how trustworthy a citizen is.

Take a look at the Wiki description, it will save me a lot of typing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Credit_System

 

 

[grrclark]

7 minutes ago, mel b3 said:

Excuse my ignorance,  but what's a social credit score ? .

Have a read through of this Mel.  I’ve not read that article, but have many others.

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/china-social-credit-system-explained