Howling at the moon or credible scenario? Mass law-breaking

[henry d]

@udderlyoffroad

Ok, I have had a look back to March and you referred to the "establishment" liking how things are going and to dark horizons. Yet here we are three months later and over the last month I have been to a museum, on holiday (in a real hotel), been to several restaurants possibly more than I would have normally, I've been buying fishing tackle in an actual shop, went out fishing from the kayak and boat with friends, I've been to friends houses, had friends come down and stay in a local hotel (unfortunately we can't accommodate ATM) and just this weekend we walked into town, wandered around the quayside, had drinks in the sunshine, a spontaneous meal in a lovely tapas bar, strolled around the local park, celebrated father's day, my first as a grandfather, with my daughter's partners family sharing food and a lovely walk on the beach with a mahoosive ice cream. The only things that were different from two years ago was wearing a mask indoors, and not being able to travel to our favourite destinations abroad.

If the "establishment", whoever they are, want to keep us locked up etc as they like it too much, then I feel that they are losing badly, the restrictions are lifting bit by bit and your dark horizons and other scenarios are not coming to fruition.

Edited June 21, 2021 by henry d

[udderlyoffroad]

2 hours ago, henry d said:

, the restrictions are lifting bit by bit and your dark horizons and other scenarios are not coming to fruition.

They're not.

Try getting married, or going to see your relatives in` Europe, or doing any one of the many things we can't do.

For the second year running, I missed my mother's birthday due to the government's nonsense 'amber list' travel restrictions.  My father is in his 80s.  I'm running out of time, frankly.

A lot of people on here seem just fine with the restrictions because of the small impact they have on their daily lives.  That doesn't make them ok in my view.

If it takes a football tournament for the British Population to realise how Europe is slowly unlocking, yet we must remain segregated and miserable in our homes, so be it.

I fear, but don't condone or encourage, a summer of discontent.

This was why I started this thread back in March.  If all around you are ignoring restrictions, you'd best get used to be the only law-abiding person amongst your friends and family, as you value your SGC/FAC.

 

[henry d]

I can empathize with your situation regarding your parents, I was ready to travel from Scotland to England and spend Christmas with my daughter and her partner, we even isolated for the required time, we could have travelled and said to hell with it, but didn't and it has nothing to do with the SGC/FAC as I no longer have either. What I can't understand is why you think that there is something nefarious going on, if you are suggesting that there is some kind of conspiracy going on then I can't understand why the government/whoever is doing this.

[udderlyoffroad]

33 minutes ago, henry d said:

if you are suggesting that there is some kind of conspiracy going on then I can't understand why the government/whoever is doing this.

I don't think it's a conspiracy so much as classic British incompetence and ultra-caution from public servants.  Hence citing the meat-on-the-bone ban lasting many years after the rest of the world had returned to eating it.

I say again, our neighbours in Europe, despite lower rates of vaccination are opening up faster than we are. 

The 'conspiracy' in the media not to report news that deviates from the narrative is too strict an interpretation, in my view, of Ofcom's directive not to give credence to Covid deniers or the like.  This is a matter of public record, not a conspiracy.

Where are all the stories reporting from, say the state of Texas about their lack of measures?  Or Florida?  Or even, as of last week, New York.  They even speak English there- so they wouldn't have to hire a translator.

Matt Hancock not presenting positive data on vaccines' efficacy against variants at the cabinet meeting where they decided to extend lockdown is most likely...incompetence.  At least I damn well hope it is.

But sooner or later, something will push the British over the edge, that's my concern.  Whether it be football, the lack of holiday options, whatever.  Boris is pushing his luck and he knows it.  SAGE seemingly don't.

 

 

[Rewulf]

On 21/06/2021 at 16:01, henry d said:

What I can't understand is why you think that there is something nefarious going on, if you are suggesting that there is some kind of conspiracy going on then I can't understand why the government/whoever is doing this.

Well because of things like this for one.

https://www.spectator.com.au/2021/06/leftists-repent-over-lab-leak-farce/

And this.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57570377

Government scientists dont need to trial invermectin , theyve known about its anti viral effects for years, it was used to good effect in many countries early on against covid, and is being used to treat people in India with excellent results.

So why didnt the West use it, its undoubted , now, that it could have saved lives, but back then it was touted as a 'quack' therapy ?
The answer is quite simple , it doesnt cost much , its out of licence, its widely used in farming, so is sat around in quantity.
On the other hand , the new vaccines arent cheap , require licences, and will be a massive revenue stream for pharma for years.....
Conspiracies theories are just that, until they are not, then they are facts.

[ordnance]

7 hours ago, Rewulf said:

Well because of things like this for one.

https://www.spectator.com.au/2021/06/leftists-repent-over-lab-leak-farce/

And this.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57570377

Government scientists dont need to trial invermectin , theyve known about its anti viral effects for years, it was used to good effect in many countries early on against covid, and is being used to treat people in India with excellent results.

So why didnt the West use it, its undoubted , now, that it could have saved lives, but back then it was touted as a 'quack' therapy ?
The answer is quite simple , it doesnt cost much , its out of licence, its widely used in farming, so is sat around in quantity.
On the other hand , the new vaccines arent cheap , require licences, and will be a massive revenue stream for pharma for years.....
Conspiracies theories are just that, until they are not, then they are facts.

What were the excellent results in India ?

[Rewulf]

17 minutes ago, ordnance said:

What were the excellent results in India ?

This week, the Indian Bar Association served notice on Dr Soumya Swaminathan, the Chief Scientist at the World Health Organisation for deliberately ignoring and suppressing data regarding the effectiveness of ivermectin, to dissuade Indians from using it. Luckily, the Indian Council for Medical Research and the All India Institute of Medical Science refused to accept her advice and retained the use of the drug in India’s national guidelines. The results have been dramatic. In every state where ivermectin was adopted cases and deaths have plummeted. In Delhi, where ivermectin was adopted on April 20 cases plunged from 28,395 to 1,246 on May 30. In Tamil Nadu, the one state to ban ivermectin on the explicit instruction of the aptly-named socialist leader M.K. Stalin, cases have rocketed up from 10,986 to 27,936

[ordnance]

20 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

This week, the Indian Bar Association served notice on Dr Soumya Swaminathan, the Chief Scientist at the World Health Organisation for deliberately ignoring and suppressing data regarding the effectiveness of ivermectin, to dissuade Indians from using it. Luckily, the Indian Council for Medical Research and the All India Institute of Medical Science refused to accept her advice and retained the use of the drug in India’s national guidelines. The results have been dramatic. In every state where ivermectin was adopted cases and deaths have plummeted. In Delhi, where ivermectin was adopted on April 20 cases plunged from 28,395 to 1,246 on May 30. In Tamil Nadu, the one state to ban ivermectin on the explicit instruction of the aptly-named socialist leader M.K. Stalin, cases have rocketed up from 10,986 to 27,936

Have you a link to a pear reviewed or any study showing excellent results using invermectin, sounds more like like hearsay to me.  I remember the other wonder drug Hydroxychloroquine that turned out not to be so wonderful. Probably a flaw of mine, but i need a bit more than some reports out of India before believing in a wonder drug, and definitely more before hinting at conspiracies by big pharma etc. 

[Rewulf]

38 minutes ago, ordnance said:

Have you a link to a pear reviewed or any study showing excellent results using invermectin, sounds more like like hearsay to me.  I remember the other wonder drug Hydroxychloroquine that turned out not to be so wonderful. Probably a flaw of mine, but i need a bit more than some reports out of India before believing in a wonder drug, and definitely more before hinting at conspiracies by big pharma etc. 

Did you read a peer review of the vaccine before you had it jabbed in your arm? 

[ordnance]

3 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Did you read a peer review of the vaccine before you had it jabbed in your arm? 

Yes. 

For Pfizer this was a peer-reviewed article in the New England Journal of Medicine including efficacy data from 43,500 participants (including placebo group), with two month safety data from 37,700 participants. For Oxford-AstraZeneca, this was a peer reviewed article in The Lancet, including interim analysis data from around 11,600 participants (although 23,800 participants were included in the wider trial) from April-November 2020. Moderna’s data was also peer-reviewed and released in the New England Journal of Medicine and included data from approximately 30,400 participants (15,200 of whom received the vaccine rather than a placebo).

[Rewulf]

Ivermectin has been used on humans for over 30 years, there are multiple studies if you care to look. 

Here's one 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043740/

[ordnance]

2 hours ago, Rewulf said:

Ivermectin has been used on humans for over 30 years, there are multiple studies if you care to look. 

Here's one 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043740/

So have lots of drugs, that doesn't mean they will work for Covid. 

[Rewulf]

52 minutes ago, ordnance said:

So have lots of drugs, that doesn't mean they will work for Covid. 

Many countries are using it, to treat the symptoms of covid, with success, why are you so uptight about that? 

Is it because your chosen source of information doesn't say its so? 

Those bastions of factual info said lots of things about covid, most were wrong, many are now having to quietly admit it DID  likely come from a Wuhan lab, what next? 

Covid deaths in the UK were exaggerated, they've virtually admitted it. 

Average death figures are hardly any different to the last 5 year average, fact. 

Next year the deaths will rise sharply due to cancer and vascular disease, because no one could see a gp for the last 15 months, fact. 

If you don't want to believe anything that doesn't come from government or SAGE , then crack on, but all I'm saying they haven't told the truth about much of this, it's not a conspiracy theory, it's right there in front of your eyes. 

[12gauge82]

6 hours ago, Rewulf said:

 

Covid deaths in the UK were exaggerated, they've virtually admitted it. 

Average death figures are hardly any different to the last 5 year average, fact. 

 

This is the bit that gets me, why has the government purposely inflated Covid death figures, it doesn't take a genius to know that including any deaths that occur within 28 days of a positive Covid result (even when the cause of death is obviously something unrelated like trauma in a RTC) is going to wildly push the death figures up. I would argue to the point the stats are near enough useless. 

[Mungler]

I think times up now. There’s a never ending chain of variants coming over the horizon and enough is enough. 

An interesting analysis of lockdowns here:

https://www.nber.org/papers/w28930

"We used data from 43 countries and all U.S. states and find the introduction of SIP (Stay In Place) policies did not lead to reductions in excess deaths."

The long-standing WHO pandemic planning guidelines specifically advised against Lockdowns.

The question is really why did so many governments implement something that was both unproven and unrecommended, and whose effects on public health are, quote, "a priori ambiguous as they might have unintended adverse effects"

The UK as a whole appears to me to be visibly poorer, unhappier, angrier and more sickly and those on a wobbly wicket over the age of 80 are still dropping like flies because that’s life - the vaccine doesn’t provide life eternal.

 

Edited June 24, 2021 by Mungler

[Mungler]

So, turns out we really are in the economic poop.

Indeed, pray tell how we fund public transport when no one is using it.

https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/england-set-drop-face-mask-rules-after-huge-economic-impact-revealed
 

it’s about to get interesting; my eldest at Uni has gone down with Covid for the 2nd time (last time September). He was due his vaccine this week. Naturally he’s absolutely fine and binging Amazon this week.

And my other sons’ school - they’ve had no cases for months but today sent 2 whole school years home because of rampant Covid.

If the vaccine holds we’re going to just have to live with this and get on with it. The end.

[Mice!]

Got a full school closed in Chorley,  kids in both schools we deal with being sent home again. 

https://www.lancs.live/news/lancashire-news/preston-hospital-sees-covid-surge-20862625

More people in hospital in Preston than since February with covid.

Got told about uni students in Sheffield queuing for six hours to get the jab which I was surprised about.

An article on Lancs live I read today said Blackburn had now peeked with its numbers, things are meant to be stabilising now because of testing and vaccination, but all the other areas around Blackburn are steadily rising and Blackburn Hospital aren't taking any new inpatients. 

Not quite the end 

[Pangolin]

But again.....barely any deaths.

 

[Mice!]

8 minutes ago, Pangolin said:

But again.....barely any deaths.

 

Thankfully no, said 10 in critical care and most who are going into hospital are in for less time thanks to things learned and vaccination, but cases across Lancashire are still rising.

[Pangolin]

1 minute ago, Mice! said:

Thankfully no, said 10 in critical care and most who are going into hospital are in for less time thanks to things learned and vaccination, but cases across Lancashire are still rising.

I dont know how many times to say it but case numbers are irrelevant.

People arent dying in huge numbers so the rising cases dont matter.

People should stop getting tested to stop this farce, deaths would remain low and they'd have no meaningless headline numbers to peddle everyday to convince people there is still a problem.

[Pangolin]

Some woman in the village very kindly had her primary school child tested, shut down 3 school years, mates wife is now having to take 10days unpaid leave to look after the kids.

Great.

 

[12gauge82]

10 minutes ago, Pangolin said:

I dont know how many times to say it but case numbers are irrelevant.

People arent dying in huge numbers so the rising cases dont matter.

People should stop getting tested to stop this farce, deaths would remain low and they'd have no meaningless headline numbers to peddle everyday to convince people there is still a problem.

Your absolutely right. 

This whole thing is madness, how many people are dying on our roads, yet no one is suggesting we stop driving. 

[ordnance]

Quote

 

Your absolutely right. 

This whole thing is madness, how many people are dying on our roads, yet no one is suggesting we stop driving.

 

Unlike Covid they don't overwhelm hospitals. 

[Pangolin]

1 minute ago, ordnance said:

Unlike Covid they don't overwhelm hospitals. 

Nor does covid, hasnt done a for a while.

Edited June 24, 2021 by Pangolin

[Mice!]

5 minutes ago, Pangolin said:

Some woman in the village very kindly had her primary school child tested, shut down 3 school years, mates wife is now having to take 10days unpaid leave to look after the kids.

Great.

Probably asymptomatic but tested positive, I'm not sure why people are testing younger kids, not unless they are displaying symptoms or actually Ill.

I'd have also thought by now that most teaching staff would have been able to have the jab by now so if a kid tests positive then do home tests each night rather than sending a full year home.

7 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Your absolutely right. 

This whole thing is madness, how many people are dying on our roads, yet no one is suggesting we stop driving. 

How many died on the roads last year though?

People keep saying more are dying on the roads but it's not the same.