Gov Restrictions Announcement 14/06/21

[Scully]

1 hour ago, Mice! said:

Along with PPE, China has made a fortune off this.

Scrums are currently banned because of.....

But we can tackle,  but only 4 in a changing room, all very strange. For what what its worth I didn't bother changing,  just had a beer, a chat, a laugh and headed home.

Not a single person, nor anyone in theatre, I don't doubt those sectors are struggling,  but they have also had loads of support, probably more than any financial crisis in history. 

And you still haven't said what you can't do under the current draconian rules,  but I doubt you will.

 

Yes, the hospitality business has had relief, but 80% of a minimum wage ( which is what many waiting on / bar staff are on ) isn’t a lot, and now that industry is struggling to attract staff as many went to get jobs as delivery drivers for supermarkets when the restaurants shut, and they ain’t coming back. 
 

[Scully]

I have to admit that I don’t know of anyone who has been unable to see their GP, and I’ve had three dental appointments since December 2020. 
I have three friends who have had treatment for cancer ( as in surgical procedures plus Chemo’ ) since Christmas. 
None of this means I’m happy with current restrictions re’ Covid. 
I’m a big boy now, double jabbed and heartily sick and tired of masks. 
Personally I think people will simply just start to disregard restrictions as time goes on. 
In the pub last weekend, there were at least a dozen folk in there when I got there, but when I looked at the book to ‘sign in’ I noticed no one had, so I didn’t either.
I was even behind the bar at one point helping one of the staff get a bottle onto the optics. Neither of us was wearing a mask. Roll on indifference. 

[Mice!]

3 hours ago, Rewulf said:

Go on a foreign holiday of your choice.

Have a large wedding.

Have a large funeral.

Celebrate a large party indoors (daughter has just had her 21st cancelled at a cocktail bar)

Go to a dentist for non emergency check up.

Go and see your doctor, unless its really serious

Going on holiday doesn't effect day to day living,  it's a perk, and can you not still go abroad but then have to, or you are expected to isolate on your return,  people were going to Portugal,  people went watching the champions league final.

The thirty limit has been changed but I haven't checked what to, again it's not a day to day thing, my sister has had to put her wedding back three times now, other than a hassle and moving deposits hoping things can go on in the future is it that big a deal?

Thankfully I haven't had to have any dealings with funerals for a few years so can't comment. 

We had a zoom party for an 18th, it wasn't what we'd want but it was fun, you can now have the party outside at least. 

The only two on the list that are an issue are the dentist,  which most people only go to once a year at most and the doctors. 

Someone posted on here about going to the dentist and him turning up in his bike gear for work,and walking through an area saying no entry without PPE, having a normal appointment,  lad in work has had work done, non emergency throughout this but I think it was private.

Then the doctors, that is a big one, again I haven't had to go and haven't spoken to anyone who has mentioned trying to get in, I haven't looked to see what my GP policy is at the moment but the way GPs have palmed off patients onto other areas of the NHS is shocking, especially when you can pay for a physio appointment,  wear a mask, temperature taken and hand sanitizer,  the doctors could definitely have been doing that.

[Mice!]

2 hours ago, Scully said:

Yes, the hospitality business has had relief, but 80% of a minimum wage ( which is what many waiting on / bar staff are on ) isn’t a lot, and now that industry is struggling to attract staff as many went to get jobs as delivery drivers for supermarkets when the restaurants shut, and they ain’t coming back. 
 

That's 80% more than someone who was self employed or working limited for less than two years when all this kicked off, far from great but hopefully like you said many went and got other work.

The building trade is booming,  materials go up daily, houses are selling in days so the economy can't be all doom and gloom.

2 hours ago, Scully said:

I have to admit that I don’t know of anyone who has been unable to see their GP, and I’ve had three dental appointments since December 2020. 
I have three friends who have had treatment for cancer ( as in surgical procedures plus Chemo’ ) since Christmas. 
None of this means I’m happy with current restrictions re’ Covid. 
I’m a big boy now, double jabbed and heartily sick and tired of masks. 
Personally I think people will simply just start to disregard restrictions as time goes on. 
In the pub last weekend, there were at least a dozen folk in there when I got there, but when I looked at the book to ‘sign in’ I noticed no one had, so I didn’t either.
I was even behind the bar at one point helping one of the staff get a bottle onto the optics. Neither of us was wearing a mask. Roll on indifference. 

Glad to hear that, the first part. 

The second part doesn't bother me at all, if your going to the pub your doing it because you want to, not because you have to like food shopping,  I'd hope the staff working there are happy to be in there, probably either younger and bullet proof or older and double jabbed.

[Scully]

7 minutes ago, Mice! said:

That's 80% more than someone who was self employed or working limited for less than two years when all this kicked off, far from great but hopefully like you said many went and got other work.

The building trade is booming,  materials go up daily, houses are selling in days so the economy can't be all doom and gloom.

Glad to hear that, the first part. 

The second part doesn't bother me at all, if your going to the pub your doing it because you want to, not because you have to like food shopping,  I'd hope the staff working there are happy to be in there, probably either younger and bullet proof or older and double jabbed.

Not really the same though is it? I don’t know of any self employed folk who have stopped trading ( I haven’t ) as a result of Covid ( although I’m sure there are plenty ) nor any who are on minimum wage. 
Ive never been one who subscribed to the claim the economy was all doom and gloom; like I said, as a self employed tradesman I don’t know anyone who is or was quiet, and any dip was going to be short lived anyhow.

I don’t know what to make of your last paragraph. Everyone has gone shopping throughout, or had someone do it for them, or had food delivered, so I’m not sure what point it is you’re trying to make there.

As for the pub, you’re correct. But if you consider the young to be bulletproof and the elder to be double jabbed, then why are we still in lockdown? 
 

[udderlyoffroad]

58 minutes ago, Mice! said:

The only two on the list that are an issue to me are the dentist

fixed it for you.

Other people have different circumstances.

You clearly don't care about them, you and yours are fine. 

Multiple people have pointed this out to you, seemingly you don't care, so I'm tapping out.  Hopefully, when the restrictions are still in place this winter, you finally might grasp the point people are trying to make, or even care.

And if you decide moan about it on a public forum, expect negative sympathy.

[WalkedUp]

It is literally wearing a face mask for 5 minutes when you pop into the shop, hardly being sent down the pit to toil. Far too much melodrama about infringements of freedom. You have to lose some freedom to participate in a shared society.

[Mice!]

16 minutes ago, WalkedUp said:

It is literally wearing a face mask for 5 minutes when you pop into the shop, hardly being sent down the pit to toil. Far too much melodrama about infringements of freedom. You have to lose some freedom to participate in a shared society.

That's my point, the only thing impeding me is I have to wear a mask when indoors,  but thinking like this means your an alright jack 😅😅

1 hour ago, Scully said:

don’t know what to make of your last paragraph. Everyone has gone shopping throughout, or had someone do it for them, or had food delivered, so I’m not sure what point it is you’re trying to make there.

As for the pub, you’re correct. But if you consider the young to be bulletproof and the elder to be double jabbed, then why are we still in lockdown? 

Everyone has to go shopping or get shopping to eat, going the pub is a choice. That's why I have no issues with wearing a mask when food shopping, its helping to protect the staff working there.

The young think they are bullet proof,  and there have been so few covid deaths in the young that they effectively are, the older are likely double jabbed, but all can still catch and pass this on, if the rates of infection weren't on the increase in the areas I posted above I'm sure Boris would have stuck to the plan, but for now we carry on as we are.

There will still be many who haven't had the jab yet.

[Mice!]

41 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

fixed it for you.

Other people have different circumstances.

You clearly don't care about them, you and yours are fine. 

Multiple people have pointed this out to you, seemingly you don't care, so I'm tapping out.  Hopefully, when the restrictions are still in place this winter, you finally might grasp the point people are trying to make, or even care.

And if you decide moan about it on a public forum, expect negative sympathy.

You didn't fix it, you changed it to suit you, I've explained my thoughts on Rewulf's points, everyone has different circumstances but You really don't like someone having a different opinion do you, yet you still haven't said what the big issue is, if we were still effectively house bound, going out for local exercise and food shopping then I could understand people being frustrated but there is very little we can't actually do.

[Rewulf]

3 hours ago, WalkedUp said:

You have to lose some freedom to participate in a shared society

That's probably the line trotted out in early communist manifestos. 

But in this day and age, it's about erosion of personal liberties and freedoms, they will tell you it's for the common good, or words to that effect. 

Erosion has to be slow and steady, or the plebs might kick off if they notice, and there isn't a mechanism in this country to contain mass protest. (yet) That means whatever erosion is used to curtail freedoms, terrorism, climate change, a pandemic? Must be seen to be for the common good, it then becomes acceptable to a high enough percentage, who will then combat the dissenters. 

Stay at home = The order

Protect the NHS = The reason 

Save lives = The reward

Anyone who disagrees (the dissenters) with the order is then directly responsible for any deaths that may occur, hence people guilt tripping others for not wearing masks, going on holiday, breaking 'curfew'... job done, bring in an E. Germany style snitch system and we're are cooking with gas... 

What have we lost? 

We've lost the benefit of the doubt, European governments now know we will adhere to just about any orders they give us, as long as you can convince a decent percentage its for the common good. 

Ask yourself this, if they made covid vaccines compulsory across the entirety of the populace, under threat of imprisonment, who would say 'enough is enough' NO! 

The fact is, they actually discussed making it compulsory, but didn't need to in the end, we were that scared of new variants, and the promise of getting back to normal  was that tempting, we queued up and begged to be jabbed with an experimental treatment. 

So, though you might think it's just a mask for 5 minutes, or it's just a jab to protect me (and society) It's only a few months of Lockdown, it's actually a lot more than that. 

It's the beginning of the end of the  personal freedoms you have taken for granted all your lives. 

 

[WalkedUp]

No it is not ‘communism’ (aka the bogey man), it is a simple truth. You do not have the freedom to rape others, to take others belongings (unless from a certain community), to kill whatever or whoever you want to kill. Oh I feel so oppressed.

Compulsory vaccination is very dangerous and I am against it. However there are deadly diseases which are coming back and affecting the vulnerable due to idiot anti-Vaxers. People who have elected not to be vaccinated should not be able to participate in elements of society that makes others vulnerable (school, certain jobs etc). 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/04/29/health/measles-cdc-704-bn/index.html

[Pangolin]

1 hour ago, WalkedUp said:

No it is not ‘communism’ (aka the bogey man), it is a simple truth. You do not have the freedom to rape others, to take others belongings (unless from a certain community), to kill whatever or whoever you want to kill. Oh I feel so oppressed.

Compulsory vaccination is very dangerous and I am against it. However there are deadly diseases which are coming back and affecting the vulnerable due to idiot anti-Vaxers. People who have elected not to be vaccinated should not be able to participate in elements of society that makes others vulnerable (school, certain jobs etc). 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/04/29/health/measles-cdc-704-bn/index.html

I think you missed his point entirely, your reply is facetious.

The way this government is acting is exactly the slippery slope we need to avoid. The gov using behavioural scientist advisors to control and scare people to ensure compliance (minuted), millions and millions spent on propaganda that they have paid for into the next year or so, I dont watch TV but the radio adverts are absolutely atrocious. Its like something from the cold war, "its invisible, it could be lurking anywhere".

Peter Hitchens has written plenty about it - 

"Modern China is a horrible place, cruel, ruthless and unembarrassed. But for some reason SAGE came to like Peking’s Covid strategy. Ferguson told The Times that ‘as the data accrued it became clear it was an effective policy’.

I’d be interested to know how the SAGE geniuses evaluated data from this police state, which lacks a free press or independent universities. But there.

Even so, they hesitated. As Ferguson says: ‘It’s a Communist one-party state, we said. We couldn’t get away with it in Europe, we thought.’

Aren’t those words ‘we couldn’t get away with it’ interesting? Is this the way in which public servants in a free country think of the normal limits on what they can do? I can only hope not.

But Ferguson and his friends then saw what happened in Italy, where a formerly free country reached for the weapons of repression and mass house arrest. And the rule of fear was so great that they got away with it. So we were next. Or, as Ferguson puts it: ‘And then Italy did it. And we realised we could.’"

Your view against compulsory vaccination and opinion on people not being able to participate in elements of society if electing not to be vaccinated kind of conflict, coercion on that level could easily lead to compulsion. A very dangerous path to go down.

 

 

Edited June 16, 2021 by Pangolin

[Pangolin]

5 hours ago, Rewulf said:

That's probably the line trotted out in early communist manifestos. 

But in this day and age, it's about erosion of personal liberties and freedoms, they will tell you it's for the common good, or words to that effect. 

Erosion has to be slow and steady, or the plebs might kick off if they notice, and there isn't a mechanism in this country to contain mass protest. (yet) That means whatever erosion is used to curtail freedoms, terrorism, climate change, a pandemic? Must be seen to be for the common good, it then becomes acceptable to a high enough percentage, who will then combat the dissenters. 

Stay at home = The order

Protect the NHS = The reason 

Save lives = The reward

Anyone who disagrees (the dissenters) with the order is then directly responsible for any deaths that may occur, hence people guilt tripping others for not wearing masks, going on holiday, breaking 'curfew'... job done, bring in an E. Germany style snitch system and we're are cooking with gas... 

What have we lost? 

We've lost the benefit of the doubt, European governments now know we will adhere to just about any orders they give us, as long as you can convince a decent percentage its for the common good. 

Ask yourself this, if they made covid vaccines compulsory across the entirety of the populace, under threat of imprisonment, who would say 'enough is enough' NO! 

The fact is, they actually discussed making it compulsory, but didn't need to in the end, we were that scared of new variants, and the promise of getting back to normal  was that tempting, we queued up and begged to be jabbed with an experimental treatment. 

So, though you might think it's just a mask for 5 minutes, or it's just a jab to protect me (and society) It's only a few months of Lockdown, it's actually a lot more than that. 

It's the beginning of the end of the  personal freedoms you have taken for granted all your lives. 

 

Im glad someome isn't ignorant to the dangers of these policies.

 

[WalkedUp]

I’m sorry if my remarks are flippant. I am not intending to troll you boys, it is just that I have to pretend to be professional and polite all day dealing with some absolute eegits. These lighthearted PW debates are for me substitute pub-talk, an opportunity to speak frankly and not being afraid to hold unpopular opinions. 

I do not necessarily agree with you but I am interested in what you say and enjoy discussing it with you. 

[Scully]

9 hours ago, Mice! said:

That's my point, the only thing impeding me is I have to wear a mask when indoors,  but thinking like this means your an alright jack 😅😅

Everyone has to go shopping or get shopping to eat, going the pub is a choice. That's why I have no issues with wearing a mask when food shopping, its helping to protect the staff working there.

The young think they are bullet proof,  and there have been so few covid deaths in the young that they effectively are, the older are likely double jabbed, but all can still catch and pass this on, if the rates of infection weren't on the increase in the areas I posted above I'm sure Boris would have stuck to the plan, but for now we carry on as we are.

There will still be many who haven't had the jab yet.

Then I’m not too sure what point it is you’re trying to make; in another thread I mentioned going to the pub in which you stated after reading it you ‘shook your head’. Now you seem to be ok with going to the pub as the young are bullet proof and the elderly double jabbed. 🤷‍♂️

[Rewulf]

2 hours ago, WalkedUp said:

People who have elected not to be vaccinated should not be able to participate in elements of society

Think about what you're saying there, people who have made a perfectly legal choice , they consider right for themselves, must be segregated and shunned from society like lepers ?

What design do you think would be right for their coat patch ?

48 minutes ago, WalkedUp said:

I’m sorry if my remarks are flippant. I am not intending to troll you boys, it is just that I have to pretend to be professional and polite all day dealing with some absolute eegits. These lighthearted PW debates are for me substitute pub-talk, an opportunity to speak frankly and not being afraid to hold unpopular opinions. 

I do not necessarily agree with you but I am interested in what you say and enjoy discussing it with you. 

Fair enough , but consider this.

Last year, based on NO experience or data, SAGE predicted half a million deaths , and bodies piled up in the streets , the media eagerly used footage of the odd body  being forklifted into a refrigerated container, relentless tv and radio ads. Governments solemnly reporting how the hospitals were nearly full (when they really weren't, and the Nightingales never got used) PPE shortages.

All working together to scare the bejesus out of you , so you will do as you're told, they've even admitted it !

That is propaganda and manipulation, couple that with covid passports (forced vaccination)  and with all the other assaults on our freedoms, you won't know what you've lost until its gone.

The fact that we are all far too comfortable to raise our voices to it means that its inevitable. 

[udderlyoffroad]

21 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Think about what you're saying there, people who have made a perfectly legal choice , they consider right for themselves, must be segregated and shunned from society like lepers ?

Indeed.  And what about the people who *can't* be vaccinated?  What should happen to them?  Different armband badge probably.

Incidentally,  @WalkedUp was presumably happy to let his kids go to school with children who couldn't be vaccinated against childhood diseases for various medical reasons?  How would he even have known?

It started as "Kauft nicht bei Juden ein" (Do not buy at Jewish shops)...

By the way, I got the jab, because for some reason best known to me I thought I'd need it for work.  Didn't see much clinical need for it, as I'm fairly sure I had the 'rona.  But just wait until the British public realises that those little bits of card the NHS hands out will not be accepted as proof of anything when they're finally *allowed* to go on holiday again.

 

[Pangolin]

Some good points in this about cases and SAGE predictions in this.

 

[Pangolin]

4 hours ago, WalkedUp said:

I’m sorry if my remarks are flippant. I am not intending to troll you boys, it is just that I have to pretend to be professional and polite all day dealing with some absolute eegits. These lighthearted PW debates are for me substitute pub-talk, an opportunity to speak frankly and not being afraid to hold unpopular opinions. 

I do not necessarily agree with you but I am interested in what you say and enjoy discussing it with you. 

Fair enough bud, I think I'm just annoyed to **** with the whole situation, but its like a car crash when you cant help but look.

Edited June 16, 2021 by Pangolin

[Cosmicblue]

We will surely get to the 19th of July and the message from Government will be 'the data says we can't further lift restrictions'.   It's totally predicable because not a great deal is going to change in the next month.

Our politicians are elected and know that dishing out bad news will have a direct bearing on the probability of being re-elected so constantly dodge the painful truth. 

The painful truth in this instance is that the Delta variant is gaining ground with infection rates rising and whilst the situation is better than a year ago we aren't out of the woods yet.  

[Scully]

11 minutes ago, Cosmicblue said:

We will surely get to the 19th of July and the message from Government will be 'the data says we can't further lift restrictions'.   It's totally predicable because not a great deal is going to change in the next month.

Our politicians are elected and know that dishing out bad news will have a direct bearing on the probability of being re-elected so constantly dodge the painful truth. 

The painful truth in this instance is that the Delta variant is gaining ground with infection rates rising and whilst the situation is better than a year ago we aren't out of the woods yet.  

I thought the Doc’ in the above video had claimed infections are slowing? 

[Mice!]

9 hours ago, Scully said:

Then I’m not too sure what point it is you’re trying to make; in another thread I mentioned going to the pub in which you stated after reading it you ‘shook your head’. Now you seem to be ok with going to the pub as the young are bullet proof and the elderly double jabbed. 🤷‍♂️

My point is that going to the pub is a choice not a need like food shopping, everyone has to go shopping so wearing a mask helps keep everyone safer.

Cases are on the up and the biggest change is that people are mixing in the pub, two or three pints and any distancing is out the window.

That's why I shook my head, it's not over yet, they have been doing door to door testing in Blackburn trying to get on top of this, but I still doubt everyone is being tested,  the under 40s certainly won't have all been jabbed but they'll be going for a pint.

My best mates brother caught covid a few weeks ago,  35 and about to have his first jab, thankfully he was just rough for a couple of weeks. But it's not over yet.

I'm happy being able to go for a meal but being in a busy pub indoors seems foolish to me. 

35 minutes ago, Cosmicblue said:

The painful truth in this instance is that the Delta variant is gaining ground with infection rates rising and whilst the situation is better than a year ago we aren't out of the woods yet.  

That's it, but it seems because people have had enough then all restrictions should be lifted. 

[Scully]

22 minutes ago, Mice! said:

My point is that going to the pub is a choice not a need like food shopping, everyone has to go shopping so wearing a mask helps keep everyone safer.

Cases are on the up and the biggest change is that people are mixing in the pub, two or three pints and any distancing is out the window.

That's why I shook my head, it's not over yet, they have been doing door to door testing in Blackburn trying to get on top of this, but I still doubt everyone is being tested,  the under 40s certainly won't have all been jabbed but they'll be going for a pint.

My best mates brother caught covid a few weeks ago,  35 and about to have his first jab, thankfully he was just rough for a couple of weeks. But it's not over yet.

I'm happy being able to go for a meal but being in a busy pub indoors seems foolish to me. 

That's it, but it seems because people have had enough then all restrictions should be lifted. 

It isnt ever going to be over though is it? Why would it be? The flu virus isn’t over, why do you think this will be? At what point do we have to get for you to be happy for folk to get on with their lives? There will always be those who haven’t had the vaccine, and perfectly capable of spreading the virus, just like those of us who have had the vaccine, and there will always be variants. This will never go away, why on earth would it? Just what has to happen before you will find it acceptable for people to go about their daily lives without masks or social distancing? 
Ive had both jabs, just like the vast majority of those in pubs, or at least the ones I go to anyhow. 
My son is at uni’ in Newcastle, neither him nor any of his mates have had any jab, they’re still going to the pubs regardless, because they want to get on with their lives. 
What do you want to happen? 

 

[ordnance]

Quote

It isnt ever going to be over though is it? Why would it be? The flu virus isn’t over.

Not necessarily, viruses can over time mutate to be less harmful or even harmless. 

[Scully]

3 minutes ago, ordnance said:

Not necessarily, viruses can over time mutate to be less harmful or even harmless. 

So is that what we do? Wait? How long? Another year? Two? Three? Ten? 
What if it doesn’t mutate into something less harmless?