Hampshire Constabulary Suspending Firearms Grant Application Service

[Pops_Hants]

As Rob has already said, vocational users will have priority over any sports users.

Also the Hants police website advises they may not meet their usual 12 week turn around time. Even then, this would be July 4th based on when they reopened applications.

Furthermore, guidance suggests that they will not respond to ‘update queries’ unless you have a vocational reason for your application - as much as it is frustrating, you’re best off waiting until you hear something. This advice was given to me by an ex Sussex police officer who himself had to apply to Hampshire police for a certificate. 
 

 

in the meantime, Chalky hill can hire you a gun for £10 a day when they have availability. You need only have an introductory course with them first and then can shoot there unsupervised providing they sign you off which should be easy if you’re applying for your own licence. 

[HantsRob]

22 hours ago, Pops_Hants said:

Chalky hill can hire you a gun for £10 a day when they have availability. You need only have an introductory course with them first and then can shoot there unsupervised providing they sign you off which should be easy if you’re applying for your own licence. 

That is worrying?..... I'm not sure how they are getting away with unsupervised shooting to a non-SGC holder? 

S11(6) does give an authorised clay ground permission to allow non certificate holders permission to shoot at artificial targets. But, 11(1) clearly states "under instruction from". I am not sure of the legality of loaning out guns unsupervised albeit on private land (but will be deemed a public place due to implied right of access).

I am certainly not questioning you or what you've said, just the legality status! Interesting

If you fancy some company and a different ground in Hampshire, I'm open to some new company if you would like to try somewhere new?

[Pops_Hants]

20 hours ago, HantsRob said:

That is worrying?..... I'm not sure how they are getting away with unsupervised shooting to a non-SGC holder? 

S11(6) does give an authorised clay ground permission to allow non certificate holders permission to shoot at artificial targets. But, 11(1) clearly states "under instruction from". I am not sure of the legality of loaning out guns unsupervised albeit on private land (but will be deemed a public place due to implied right of access).

I am certainly not questioning you or what you've said, just the legality status! Interesting

If you fancy some company and a different ground in Hampshire, I'm open to some new company if you would like to try somewhere new?

I’m not 100% sure on legality either, but as I understand it you have to have tuition and be signed off safe to do this first, a mornings work really.

I’m game for getting out more and to new places, unfortunately no licence myself yet so maybe need to wait for that first but feel free to drop an inbox if you’re looking for more shooting buddies.

[HantsRob]

On 01/06/2022 at 09:57, Pops_Hants said:

I’m not 100% sure on legality either, but as I understand it you have to have tuition and be signed off safe to do this first, a mornings work really.

I’m game for getting out more and to new places, unfortunately no licence myself yet so maybe need to wait for that first but feel free to drop an inbox if you’re looking for more shooting buddies.

All the grounds I go to have an 11(6) exemption, and I'd be happy to take you out without a licence if you follow any guidance I give regarding safety. Cheaper than a lesson, just pay for your clays and carts and I'm happy

[Piebob]

On 31/05/2022 at 13:13, HantsRob said:

That is worrying?..... I'm not sure how they are getting away with unsupervised shooting to a non-SGC holder? 

S11(6) does give an authorised clay ground permission to allow non certificate holders permission to shoot at artificial targets. But, 11(1) clearly states "under instruction from". I am not sure of the legality of loaning out guns unsupervised albeit on private land (but will be deemed a public place due to implied right of access).

A person doesn't have to meet all criteria. It can be one or more.  S11(6) is all that matters.

[Old farrier]

28 minutes ago, Piebob said:

A person doesn't have to meet all criteria. It can be one or more.  S11(6) is all that matters.

Very grey area 

personally I think anyone without a certificate should be supervised by a certificate holder while shooting a hired or borrowed gun and also do a bit of paperwork before being allowed to shoot 

the main issue as I see it is safety and insurance 

 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

6 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

Very grey area 

personally I think anyone without a certificate should be supervised by a certificate holder while shooting a hired or borrowed gun and also do a bit of paperwork before being allowed to shoot 

the main issue as I see it is safety and insurance 

Whilst I agree in principle I have seen plenty of idiots who have SGC's and struggle to handle a gun safely.

[Old farrier]

14 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Whilst I agree in principle I have seen plenty of idiots who have SGC's and struggle to handle a gun safely.

So have I 

maybe I’m fortunate that all the grounds in my area are very strict on this and unless you are deemed to be safe they send the club coach with non certificate holders club policy is everyone is a safety officer and all members are point out unsafe practices it seems to work 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

9 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

So have I 

maybe I’m fortunate that all the grounds in my area are very strict on this and unless you are deemed to be safe they send the club coach with non certificate holders club policy is everyone is a safety officer and all members are point out unsafe practices it seems to work 

Usually by shooting the Registered Competitions the idiots  get stopped by the referess.

But going to the straw bale type shoots turns up some complete wazzacks!

[Scully]

41 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

Very grey area 

personally I think anyone without a certificate should be supervised by a certificate holder while shooting a hired or borrowed gun and also do a bit of paperwork before being allowed to shoot 

the main issue as I see it is safety and insurance 

 

What sort of ‘paperwork’ did you have in mind? 

[Old farrier]

9 minutes ago, Scully said:

What sort of ‘paperwork’ did you have in mind? 

The standard form 

name 

address 

age 

weather you are a prohibited person 

name of person taking you round and who’s gun your using 

acknowledge that you aren’t allowed to be shooting while under the influence 

pretty much standard 

[Scully]

14 hours ago, Old farrier said:

The standard form 

name 

address 

age 

weather you are a prohibited person 

name of person taking you round and who’s gun your using 

acknowledge that you aren’t allowed to be shooting while under the influence 

pretty much standard 

Is this official? I’ve never known anyone to be asked to fill out this sort of info’ prior to being allowed to shoot, anywhere. 

[Old farrier]

2 hours ago, Scully said:

Is this official? I’ve never known anyone to be asked to fill out this sort of info’ prior to being allowed to shoot, anywhere. 

Perhaps you should try shooting down south without a certificate 

It’s pretty standard no point in having a exemption certificate if there’s no reference to anyone using it 

also  a record for the flo to see when you applyFor your license 

[Scully]

25 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

Perhaps you should try shooting down south without a certificate 

It’s pretty standard no point in having a exemption certificate if there’s no reference to anyone using it 

also  a record for the flo to see when you applyFor your license 

I don’t see what the area has to do with it. What I mean is, is it a legal obligation?

I’ve been on many BASC Yound Shot days, introduced numerous kids and adults to shotguns and shooting, and have never come across any need to fill out any form, standard or otherwise. 
As far as I’m aware neither is there need for any FEO to see any such record or even for such a record to exist. 

 

[Old farrier]

On 03/06/2022 at 14:47, Scully said:

I don’t see what the area has to do with it. What I mean is, is it a legal obligation?

I’ve been on many BASC Yound Shot days, introduced numerous kids and adults to shotguns and shooting, and have never come across any need to fill out any form, standard or otherwise. 
As far as I’m aware neither is there need for any FEO to see any such record or even for such a record to exist. 

 

Haven’t a clue if it’s a legal obligation 

however I do know that the three closest clubs to me all have the exemption and all require you to sign the book and read and agree to the terms of the license each time you wish to shoot and to shoot around with a certificate holder 

our local flo checks with the ground on new application to seek the information as to how many times they have shot before new grants are issued and also calls the coach / person they were supervised by 

he’s very efficient ex military and take’s his job very seriously 

what it’s like in other areas I have no idea maybe because of the geography of my area it makes it easier to do with the limited amount of clubs novice people can shoot at to gain experience 

 

I’m sure you can take some one to a ground and let them shoot on your license with you as a mentor  and no paperwork would be nessecary although at a Basc day they would have signed in and the details would be on record 

 

[Scully]

I genuinely can’t understand why there are people who insist on creating unnecessary obstacles for those who may be interested in taking up the sport, it baffles and frustrates me no end! Why, just why do we do insist on this unofficial officialdom? Is it a power thing? 
Which part are you referring to when you state it ‘makes it easier’ ? Makes what easier? 
I have lost count of the numbers I have introduced to shooting at numerous venues and opportunities, none of which have involved them passing on personal details of any kind which bear absolutely no relevance to an individuals suitability to ‘have a go’! 
There is also no requirement for a would be applicant to show proof of experience or a record of attendance at a clay ground, nor for a FEO to check for such a record! 
It’s nonsense, complete and utter nonsense, of no benefit to anyone. 

 

[Fellside]

23 minutes ago, Scully said:

I genuinely can’t understand why there are people who insist on creating unnecessary obstacles for those who may be interested in taking up the sport, it baffles and frustrates me no end! Why, just why do we do insist on this unofficial officialdom? Is it a power thing? 
Which part are you referring to when you state it ‘makes it easier’ ? Makes what easier? 
I have lost count of the numbers I have introduced to shooting at numerous venues and opportunities, none of which have involved them passing on personal details of any kind which bear absolutely no relevance to an individuals suitability to ‘have a go’! 
There is also no requirement for a would be applicant to show proof of experience or a record of attendance at a clay ground, nor for a FEO to check for such a record! 
It’s nonsense, complete and utter nonsense, of no benefit to anyone. 

 

Exactly this……!

When I take a novice clay shooting - I just take a ‘user-friendly’ gun out of the cabinet, pick them up and drive to the ground and let them safely shoot starter clays. It’s that simple and should remain so. In fact I’m doing that today - minus any burdensome bureaucracy. 

[Scully]

7 minutes ago, Fellside said:

Exactly this……!

When I take a novice clay shooting - I just take a ‘user-friendly’ gun out of the cabinet, pick them up and drive to the ground and let them safely shoot starter clays. It’s that simple and should remain so. In fact I’m doing that today - minus any burdensome bureaucracy. 

Good for you! I did exactly the same a week or so ago. It’s easy, and that’s how it should remain. 

[HantsRob]

5 hours ago, Scully said:

I genuinely can’t understand why there are people who insist on creating unnecessary obstacles for those who may be interested in taking up the sport, it baffles and frustrates me no end! Why, just why do we do insist on this unofficial officialdom? Is it a power thing? 

My concern was around the comment that at a local clay ground you can have a lesson with them, then you can sign out a shotgun without a certificate and take it onto the ground and shoot it without supervision.

Maybe I am being non-progressive, but that to me just doesn't sound like a good idea and don't see how it encourages people to the sport?

[Old farrier]

6 hours ago, Scully said:

I genuinely can’t understand why there are people who insist on creating unnecessary obstacles for those who may be interested in taking up the sport, it baffles and frustrates me no end! Why, just why do we do insist on this unofficial officialdom? Is it a power thing? 
Which part are you referring to when you state it ‘makes it easier’ ? Makes what easier? 
I have lost count of the numbers I have introduced to shooting at numerous venues and opportunities, none of which have involved them passing on personal details of any kind which bear absolutely no relevance to an individuals suitability to ‘have a go’! 
There is also no requirement for a would be applicant to show proof of experience or a record of attendance at a clay ground, nor for a FEO to check for such a record! 
It’s nonsense, complete and utter nonsense, of no benefit to anyone. 

 

So when you take someone 

who’s insurance do you use ?

yours ?

theres ? 
ground insurance? 

[Old farrier]

6 hours ago, Fellside said:

Exactly this……!

When I take a novice clay shooting - I just take a ‘user-friendly’ gun out of the cabinet, pick them up and drive to the ground and let them safely shoot starter clays. It’s that simple and should remain so. In fact I’m doing that today - minus any burdensome bureaucracy. 

Using your gun on your license?

would you do this with a perfect stranger ?

or would you like to have some information about them 

[Scully]

2 hours ago, HantsRob said:

My concern was around the comment that at a local clay ground you can have a lesson with them, then you can sign out a shotgun without a certificate and take it onto the ground and shoot it without supervision.

Maybe I am being non-progressive, but that to me just doesn't sound like a good idea and don't see how it encourages people to the sport?

I wouldn’t know about that.
I know one well established shooting ground which allows people to take out any shotgun they desire for a round of clays, but you have to show a valid ticket beforehand. 

[Scully]

1 hour ago, Old farrier said:

So when you take someone 

who’s insurance do you use ?

yours ?

theres ? 
ground insurance? 

Depends who is insured I suppose, if anyone. Not all valid ticket holders are insured as far as I’m aware; it’s not compulsory and no one has ever asked. 
Incidentally, insurance isn’t something you included in your ‘standard’ form. 
You're clutching at straws; nothing you have mentioned is a pre-requisite to ‘having a go’. Next time you’re at a game fair, drop in on the ‘have a go’ stand and see if you’re required to fill out any kind of form. 
As for ‘perfect strangers’, really? Have you ever taken shooting a ‘perfect stranger’? 

[London Best]

All strangers are perfect. It is only when you get to know them that you realise they are not.

[Old farrier]

8 minutes ago, Scully said:

Depends who is insured I suppose, if anyone. Not all valid ticket holders are insured as far as I’m aware; it’s not compulsory and no one has ever asked. 
Incidentally, insurance isn’t something you included in your ‘standard’ form. 
You're clutching at straws; nothing you have mentioned is a pre-requisite to ‘having a go’. Next time you’re at a game fair, drop in on the ‘have a go’ stand and see if you’re required to fill out any kind of form. 
As for ‘perfect strangers’, really? Have you ever taken shooting a ‘perfect stranger’? 

The question wasn’t clutching at straws it was simple with three choices which you evaded 

yes I have taken a few over the years I’ve also been on the have a go stand  where perfect strangers have turned up to have a go 

Working on your idea’s why do they need/bother to issue exemption certificates to shooting grounds and if no one signs the book form how do they show/ prove they need/ use the exemption 

 It’s good to see the different view points on this especially as they are so far apart as I said earlier I live in a different area with different idea’s 

id far rather have a few boxes ticked for peace of mind and proof of use of the exemption which you seem to think is a infringement of liberties and unnecessary that’s why we are all different with different views in these changing times 

As for the game fair id just produce my license so not really relevant 

If you’re ever down my way happy to take you for a few rounds of clay’s as long as you don’t mind producing your license and filling in the guest form at the club (insurance requirement)